The Gate

Yes, thoughts about something with no basis for truth.

So assumptions about an I, have no basis for truth ?

Yes, thoughts about something with no basis for truth.

So assumptions about an I, have no basis for truth ?

I don't know.

C'mon Ali, there was no doubt about anything up to the last question, and you have already answered it.
Have you not ?

C'mon Ali, there was no doubt about anything up to the last question, and you have already answered it.
Have you not ?

I answered about assumptions, not about the self.

Isn't the "I" part that you say, just an assumption ?

Yes, I can see this somewhat.

vinceschubert wrote:Isn't the "I" part that you say, just an assumption ?
Ali said; Yes, I can see this somewhat.

Ok, so if the "somewhat" is the 'get out of jail card', let's consider that.
You can see that the I is based on an assumption, but to fully commit to that is going too far. right?
You are unwilling to let go of the idea that your 'self' is more tangible than a concept. right ?
There is no evidence for the existence of an actual I other than a logical conclusion. Is this right ?

You can see that the I is based on an assumption, but to fully commit to that is going too far. right?

Yes.

You are unwilling to let go of the idea that your 'self' is more tangible than a concept. right ?

I don't know how to let go of the idea.

There is no evidence for the existence of an actual I other than a logical conclusion. Is this right ?

Yes, because the logical conclusion seems accurate.

I don't know how to let go of the idea.

That's ok. It's not something that can be done intentionally. It will happen when you SEE that there is nothing left to do but that. It may come as an 'Aha!' phenomenon, or it might just sneak in with a squeaky 'oh'.

because the logical conclusion seems accurate.

Ah, here is a key. "The logical conclusion seems accurate", is to say that there are thoughts that have sensations attached to them that are familiar, or some variation on this, or maybe it isn't even strong enough to have sensations attached.
Say the sentence to yourself "The logical conclusion seems accurate", and Look. Are there sensations ?
Say it again and check are there just more thoughts that come from this thought ?

Say the sentence to yourself "The logical conclusion seems accurate", and Look. Are there sensations ?

I don't think so.

Say it again and check are there just more thoughts that come from this thought ?

Yes, I think more thoughts about the statement.

vince asked; are there just more thoughts that come from this thought ?
Ali said; Yes, I think more thoughts about the statement.

So in fact the whole assumption about an I is just thought loops ?

vince asked; are there just more thoughts that come from this thought ?
Ali said; Yes, I think more thoughts about the statement.

So in fact the whole assumption about an I is just thought loops ?

I don't know.

I don't know.

Is this just hanging on to a self ?

I don't know.

Is this just hanging on to a self ?

No.

Then how will you know that you know ?

Then how will you know that you know ?

When it is believed to be an undeniable fact.

When it is believed to be an undeniable fact.

When you have a particular kind of thought about an undeniable fact ?
How will you recognise this undeniable fact ?
Undeniable is also a particular thought, no ?
So you will never see what is Not there (the self), will you.
Only if you Do see it there will it be a fact ? (a fact that is absent, is a lack of fact)
Ali, give me at least a few words for each answer, please.