ja

[Bananafish]

it's elusive and changing. Nothing steady. So no, no one special feeling to it, but many.

Great. :) No one special feeling! Isn't it about reality, rather than something
called "me" that seems to have been given special importance and treated as
the centre of all experiences?

I understand that it sounds stupid. I understand that there is no self and how it works. Nevertheless, the self is still intact.

Are you talking about the itch, the pain, the sound of the birds, sadness and all the emotions,
all these? Do you feel that these are what you call self? Is there anything that throws all of them
into one tiny box called "self" that is supposed to be 170 cm tall and will live till 80 year or so,
and has all these identities like human, name, job, etc.?


Warm wishes,

Bananafish

[domostroy]

Hi Bananafish, thank you.

Isn't it about reality, rather than something
called "me" that seems to have been given special importance and treated as
the centre of all experiences?

Yes.

Are you talking about the itch, the pain, the sound of the birds, sadness and all the emotions,
all these? Do you feel that these are what you call self? Is there anything that throws all of them
into one tiny box called "self" that is supposed to be 170 cm tall and will live till 80 year or so,
and has all these identities like human, name, job, etc.?

It's not about that, not anymore. It's about the basic every-day perspective of being inside the body and the world being outside of it, separate. Have I misunderstood that completely or should this perspective change? As in "nothing has changed but everything is changed" so many people talk about in various wording.



All the best,

J.

[Bananafish]

Hi Jaro. :)

It's about the basic every-day perspective of being inside the body and the world being outside of it, separate.

I don't quite get what you are talking about.
Could you elaborate on what you mean by perspective?


Are you talking of the feeling of being in the body, or are you
talking of the thoughts about being in the body?


Warm wishes,

Bananafish

[domostroy]

Hi again :)

Could you elaborate on what you mean by perspective?
Are you talking of the feeling of being in the body, or are you
talking of the thoughts about being in the body?

I'm talking about the feeling of being inside the body and the world being outside of it. The perspective of me here - everything out there. Isn't it supposed to change, or is it just my misinterpretation? I mean, it must be more than thoughts about it? An obvious shift?


By the way: do you remember the "yearning" stuff from before? I promised to keep looking at it. I "know" more. The best description I can come up with right now is it's like a bubble around solar plexus that "wants" to come to the surface. It usually comes up a bit and stops there, sometimes all the way to the throat. So, trasparent bubble. The feeling to it is a mixture of yearning/longing and at the same time joy and sadness, if it makes sense. Something like wanting to cry and laugh at the same time. It showed up very strongy when I wrote the first paragraph. I can't really make it show up at will. I don't know the exact cause, but it only shows up during this process.


J.

[Bananafish]

I'm talking about the feeling of being inside the body

What's inside the body?

Code: Select all

By the way: do you remember the "yearning" stuff from before? I promised to keep looking at it. I "know" more. The best description I can come up with right now is it's like a bubble around solar plexus that "wants" to come to the surface. It usually comes up a bit and stops there, sometimes all the way to the throat. So, trasparent bubble. The feeling to it is a mixture of yearning/longing and at the same time joy and sadness, if it makes sense. Something like wanting to cry and laugh at the same time. It showed up very strongy when I wrote the first paragraph. I can't really make it show up at will. I don't know the exact cause, but it only shows up during this process.

Great! Please keep observing that feeling, and report what you noticed.


Warm wishes,

Bananafish

[domostroy]

What's inside the body?

I don't really know what kind of an answer I should give. Anatomically, the usual human anatomy (I hope). Experientially, various and changing sensations.



J.

[Bananafish]

Hi Jaro. :)

various and changing sensations.

Ok, please have a look at these; observe. What makes you feel that they are
inside the body? When you close your eyes, how do you distinguish between
inside and outside?


Please don't say "I've done this before." That may be hindering
your fresh seeing of what is here.


Then, please tell what relates those sensations with the idea of self.


Also, please keep considering whether you are not confusing something different
from something separate.


Warm wishes,

Bananafish

[domostroy]

Hi Bananafish, thank you.

What makes you feel that they are inside the body?

I feel them. If the sensations were outside of the body, I wouldn't feel them.

When you close your eyes, how do you distinguish between
inside and outside?

I can't. But the center observing this is "me".

Then, please tell what relates those sensations with the idea of self.

Thoughts, sometimes.

Also, please keep considering whether you are not confusing something different
from something separate.

I will. Right now, I think it's both. Flowers on the table in front of me, they are both different and separate from me.



All the best,

J.

[Bananafish]

I feel them. If the sensations were outside of the body, I wouldn't feel them.

Are you hearing anything now?

Is that sound inside or outside? What's your experience, without speculating
about it?

But the center observing this is "me".

With eyes closed, how do you tell where the "center" is?
Are you talking metaphorically?

Flowers on the table in front of me, they are both different and separate from me.

Can you perceive that "me" that you are comparing with the flowers?
If not, how could you even say that they are different?

[domostroy]

Hi Bananafish, thank you.


Much frustration here.

Are you hearing anything now?
Is that sound inside or outside? What's your experience, without speculating
about it?

There is no inside nor outside. There is just sound.

With eyes closed, how do you tell where the "center" is?
Are you talking metaphorically?

No, not metaphorically. Actually, with eyes closed, the center seems to be even more centered in the head. Everything important is happening there and around. Sounds, sights, thoughts etc.

Can you perceive that "me" that you are comparing with the flowers?
If not, how could you even say that they are different?

I understand. At the other hand, whether there is a "me" or not, flowers don't type.




All the best,

J.

[domostroy]

Is there something I should or could do when there is nothing to do?

[Bananafish]

Hi Jaro. :)

Do nothing when you have nothing to do!
I'm not kidding, but apart from that, you will keep deluding yourself.

You don't have anything to do, but you imagine you have something to do.

Illusion.


I feel your question here suggests something very important that
has to be understood.

I'll post more later.


Warm wishes,

Bananafish

[Bananafish]

There is no inside nor outside. There is just sound.

What difference is there between sound and what you call "sensation"?

Actually, with eyes closed, the center seems to be even more centered in the head. Everything important is happening there and around. Sounds, sights, thoughts etc.

That very much sounds like a metaphor. When you close your eyes, what
is your experience of sight happening around the center?

Where is around, and where is the center?
Can you see anything that is 1. around 2. the center?

I understand. At the other hand, whether there is a "me" or not, flowers don't type.

No, I'm not asking you to understand anything.
If "me" is not perceivable, what are you actually doing when you say
flowers are separate and different from you?



Warm wishes,

Bananafish

[domostroy]

Hi :)

What difference is there between sound and what you call "sensation"?

There is no difference.

When you close your eyes, what is your experience of sight happening around the center?

There is always something happening there, even in darkness.

Where is around, and where is the center?
Can you see anything that is 1. around 2. the center?

I can't see anything that is around, no. But damn, eyes closed or not, there seems to be a center.
Inside the head, where "me" resides. A very dominant sensation. It has been bugging me since the very start.

If "me" is not perceivable, what are you actually doing when you say
flowers are separate and different from you?

I don't know. "Me", "I".. They're just words.
I don't know what I am, but I am quite sure I am not flowers.
I understand that the image of flowers is created inside me, but that is not how I percieve the world.


All the best,
J.

[Bananafish]

Hi Jaro. :)

But damn, eyes closed or not, there seems to be a center.
Inside the head, where "me" resides. A very dominant sensation. It has been bugging me since the very start.

Are center and me different?

Please tell what kind of sensation it is, and how different it is from other sensations.

It sounds like you have a special feeling towards that particular sensation.
Do you wish that it will disappear completely?

I don't know what I am, but I am quite sure I am not flowers.

Ok, so here you are referring to your belief that you are not flowers, right?
When you are sure you are not flowers, what are you sure about you being?


What, or who are you?



Warm wishes,

Bananafish