Looking for guidance - am tired of the cycle of becoming

[Seamist]

Yes, they're thoughts, aren't they?
Good to get clear about the difference

[Seeker2019]

Yes, thoughts. Sometimes it seems everything is just a thought, i.e. an event in the mind

[Seamist]

Thinking is always happening. You just don't have to always believe it.

For this exercise you will need to sit yourself near a clock that has an audible second hand.
Allow your eyes to close gently.
Listen to the sound. “Tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock”
Focus on the tick tock. Attune to the sound itself. IGNORE any explanatory thoughts about what must be creating the sound.
Try to find the clock.
1. Going just by the tick tock sound, do you find a clock present?
2. Is there any direct/actual experience of a clock in the sound?
3. Does the sound come self-labelled as originating from the clock?
4. Do you find a clock hidden in the sound?
5. Do you find a clock beyond the sound?
6. In your direct/actual experience of the sound, do you find any evidence that the sound is caused by a clock?
Allow your eyes to open.
Were you able to establish that in your direct/actual experience of the tick tock sound, that there was a clock?
Were you able to find a division between hearing and sound?
Were you able to establish where hearing ended and sound begin, or was there just pure experience labelled as sound?
For a sound to be ‘known’ then there must be a ‘knowing’ (experience) of sound! Can a dividing line be found between the ‘knowing’ (experience) of the sound and the sound (known) itself? Or is there only ‘knowingknown’?

[Seeker2019]

There is the sound and the hearing. Just that. Without sound no hearing, without hearing, no sound. There is no division, no distinction. It is an event.

In this event there is no clock, the sound/hearing does not contain a clock. There is no clock. Not in the sound, not beyond the sound. The sound is not coming from a clock. It is just heard.

For a sound to be ‘known’ then there must be a ‘knowing’ (experience) of sound! Can a dividing line be found between the ‘knowing’ (experience) of the sound and the sound (known) itself? Or is there only ‘knowingknown’?

There is just one thing. The knowing is the hearing, the hearing is the sound.

[Seamist]

There is the sound and the hearing. Just that. Without sound no hearing, without hearing, no sound. There is no division, no distinction. It is an event

yes, great

In this event there is no clock, the sound/hearing does not contain a clock. There is no clock. Not in the sound, not beyond the sound. The sound is not coming from a clock. It is just heard. yes again

[quote]For a sound to be ‘known’ then there must be a ‘knowing’ (experience) of sound! Can a dividing line be found between the ‘knowing’ (experience) of the sound and the sound (known) itself? Or is there only ‘knowingknown’?
There is just one thing. The knowing is the hearing, the hearing is the sound.[/quote] excellent, Alex!

Continuing, now:
Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.
This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation ie is there any tightening, or any relaxing?
For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.
For example: I am sitting on a chair, I am hearing a clock ticking, I am looking at a computer screen, I am feeling hungry. Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs. For example: sitting on a chair, typing, breathing, blinking, hearing the clock. (Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?
2. What is here without labels?
3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?
4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

xx

[Seeker2019]

Sioned,

I had something come up today, sorry. I do the exercise tomorrow.

[Seamist]

ok, no problem

[Seeker2019]

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

I am not sure how to judge that. The impersonal labels work well and make sense, there is no need to add the "I" so maybe they are truer

2. What is here without labels?

Just the experience

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

They definitely affect the experience

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Yes! While I had pleasant and unpleasant sensation, felt anxious, nervous or tense in both cases, there is a difference: Labelling with "I" I felt like the experiences where more direct, immediate, real. My body felts closed down, restricted, small, contracted and at the center of experience. It felt like the body was tensing, holding on, bracing itself.
Labelling without "I", my body felt open, wide, smooth, letting go, and letting things through without holding on

xx
alex

[Seamist]

That's great, Alex, lovely noticing.
Ok, let’s continue with the clock and try to find a sound...if sound is actually heard.

Again focus on the experience of the tick tock sound. Set aside all thought, images, ideas or theories about what must be going on. Attune to the sounds themselves.
Going by hearing alone, do you directly experience a sound apart from your sense of hearing?
Do you experience a sound getting closer to your range of hearing before you actually hear it?
Do you experience a sound after you hear it?
Do you experience an unheard sound of any kind?
Allow your eyes to open.
Were you able to establish, in your direct experience of hearing, that sounds enter your sense of hearing. In other words, in direct/actual experience is there a hearer AND sound?

xx

[Seeker2019]

Hey Sioned

There is no hearing without sound, and no sound without hearing. They are not separate in experience. It's not like there is a sense of hearing active waiting for a sound, or experiencing sound coming closer. It's hearing plus sound or neither

There is no sound before hearing, and no sound after. There is no hearing before sound or hearing after.

In direct experience, there is no one hearing, and no one "sounding". There is no thing making the sound and no one hearing it. There is only the event and we split it into hearing and sound.

[Seamist]

Fabulous answer, lovely!
Go out into nature and spend some time watching the movement of the whole. See how clouds move, trees swing, leaves wiggle, grass moves, insects, birds - all move all the time.

Then move focus to sensations and see how they too are in constant motion, thoughts come and go, sounds, colours, sensations come and go.

Notice that everything is part of one movement.

Then close your eyes and see if there is a line between you and out there, between you and life itself. If yes, where is the boundary?
Is there an inside and an outside of Life?
Is there something which is not included in the movement of the whole?
Is there a witness that is watching life happening from a distance?
Is witnessing part of the one movement too?
Is there anything which is not just happening?

Go out, come back and tell me what you found

xx

[Seamist]

How are you doing, Alex? xx

[Seeker2019]

Hey Sioned,

Oh noes, my reply didn't get try. Sorry, I thought I was waiting on your next message.

There is one movement only, and all is part of one event happening. The awareness of this is within the event and there is nothing outside seeing the movement of the whole, there is nothing separate from it. Everything that is and happens is part of the one movement.

[Seamist]

Hi Alex
There does seem to have been a bit of a problem with notifications recently: I've no idea why though.

There is one movement only, and all is part of one event happening. The awareness of this is within the event and there is nothing outside seeing the movement of the whole, there is nothing separate from it. Everything that is and happens is part of the one movement.

That's lovely. How is it to notice this? What's the emotional response?
xx

[Seeker2019]

The response is relief, feeling safe and connect to something sacred. It is quickly slipping away though and not something that stays with me.