Hello, I'm new

[Prism]

I just want to add something that might be of importance, not sure but for whatever it’s worth:

I think I have a strong case of emootional identification , an emotional center , a core that is very ”real” in the sense that it’s more or less always present. It’s the way that I emotionally and energetically even know I am here. A sort of feeling based or emotion based presence. I have had a lifelong case of anxiety & depression which obviously has led to that I both emotionally and energetically have identified with these long term strong emotions which had led to the conclusion that that is who I am. I believe that if I awaken to truth it will be because I can finally disidentify with this cluster of emotions rather than waking up from disidentifying from a cluster of thoughts. Of course I understand that it is thoughts and beliefs that are maintaining the idea that I am these emotions and energies but I hope my point comes across that I am alot more invested in emotions than in thoughts than perhaps the average person

[Anastacia42]

Emotions are only Sensations with a label & a story - content of though6.

Everyone identifies with this to one degree or another.

Try this:

Make a list of the body Sensations of what is labeled "fear." Post those here.

Loving,

[Prism]

Find the lie. I don't need the whole story, just a few key words to refer to it.

Then scan your body for any Sensation (DE or Direct Experience), particularly in the gut or maybe the heart. Check very closely.

What is found?

I got promoted to a high position in the company. First I was thrilled and felt like I had achieved great success, but it didnt take long until I felt like it was all a lie.
I felt that I wasnt qualified for the job and every day, every task felt like I had to lie to get through it.

The body sensation is like you said, a contraction in the chest area and in the throat. Also tightness from the solar plexus up through the neck and also in the jaw/mouth area.

When I check in with other examples, it shows up the same way in the body

"Peaceful" is an interpretation of a body Sensation, not the Sensation itself, for example.

Do you see that?]

Yes I understand that “peaceful” is not the same thing as the sensation itself.

[Prism]

When you look at the word label ‘GREEN’, what is the actual experience?

Is the red color "experienced" or is color green "experienced" as the label suggests?

The red color is experienced

Do the labels have a one-to-one correspondence with "reality?"

Or do the labels suggest something else other than what is here now (red color)?

The label is not the same as the object - and even if the right label was used to describe the color it would still not be a one-to-one correspondance with reality because the experience comes first, we attach labels afterwards so labels are in a sense a different object than what they point to

Is green-ness an inherent attribute of the "experience" of the red color; or is green just a word label on the experience of the red color?

It is a word label

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’, is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?

No, the redness is red regardless of the label.

Does redness become "good" or "bad," or do the labels have no effect whatsoever on ‘reality’?

No effect on reality

[Prism]

Make a list of the body Sensations of what is labeled "fear." Post those here.

Tightness in chest
Muscle tightening allover the body, primarily in arms & legs, throath and jaw
Sweaty palms
Overall body temp rising
Sight tunnel vision
Short & fast breath
Heart beating faster & harder

[Anastacia42]

Very good. Yes.

Now take a look at excitement.

Make a list of bodiy sensations that go along with the label of excitement.


Loving,

[Prism]

Make a list of bodiy sensations that go along with the label of excitement.

Hmm.. some of them overlap. Like:
Overall body temp rising
Sight tunnel vision
Short & fast breath
Heart beating faster & harder

These two are turned into the opposites:
Tightness in chest --instead becomes -- Relaxed "expansive" sensation
Muscle tightening allover the body, primarily in arms & legs, throath and jaw --instead becomes -- Overall muscle relaxation.

But...

During intense excitement, like when the team youre cheering for scores a goal or when finding out you passed a difficult test, I guess there is overall muscle tightening as well.

So the only thing that really changes in both scenarios is the sensation in the chest, tight and constricted during fear - open and expansive during excitement.

What do you say? I feel like I may have messed this one up :)

[Prism]

Id like to add a tingling sensation in the stomach and/or chest area that is present during excitement but not during fear

[Anastacia42]

Good.

The point of this exercise is to notice that "fear" and "excitement" have nearly the same body Sensations. The main difference is our label and interpretation. For example, one person on a roller coaster may freak out an have "fear," while another time or another person may interpret these same Sensations as "excitement."

Remember an emotion is a body Sensation plus a label and a story, which are thoughts.

Now that this can be understood, let's look at the story you sent me:

a strong case of emotional identification

This is a label and a story. It isn't Direct Experience. It is only an interpretation. Not only that, but it is wrong.

if I awaken to truth it will be because I can finally disidentify with this cluster of emotions rather than waking up from disidentifying from a cluster of thoughts.

No, it will be because you finally notice the thoughts and labels for the Sensations are mistaken.

Can you see that?

Loving,

[Prism]

No, it will be because you finally notice the thoughts and labels for the Sensations are mistaken.

Can you see that?

Let me try to examine this a bit here..

There is input data (sensation) that is picked up by the mind.
The mind processes this data (interpretation) and the output is thought and labels.
The input data is distorted by the mind (because of previous conditioning?) so the output data is corrupted.

This leads to that all output data will always be corrupted as long as the mind is allowed to distort it?
So there should be two ways to "fix" the problem.
Either cleanse the mind of previous conditioning or learn to discard the corrupted data (thoughts & labels) as always being corrupted, therefore never to be trusted.

[Prism]

But I guess that output data can never not be corrupted since it is created by the mind, not the original source, and will only at best be an accurate description of the input data. It will never be equal to the input data.

[Prism]

Hi Stacy,

Almost forgot to report about it, but I had an opportunity to try the anti-anxiety-exercise that you shared in your very first post here in this thread. Im happy to say that it worked - it cut off the power supply of the anxiety so that it lost its control over me.

I think the next step would be to do The Work by Byron Katie on those nasty beliefs that gives rise to the anxiety.

[Anastacia42]

Very good that you got good results from the Anxiety Pointer.

Let me try to examine this a bit here..

Thinking will never resolve this. Give it up. Or you can keep going and exhaust yourself with the uselessness of it.

Yes, The Work of Byron Katie is excellent.

Loving,

[Prism]

Okay, to answer your questions again

Can you see that?

I can see that what I sent contained labels and interpretations packaged into a story

[Anastacia42]

Good. Let's move on.


Actual/Direct Experience - Apple

Have a look at an apple (or any fruit you like.) If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise. Google for a picture of an apple.



When looking at an apple, there's color; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure? Color is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought.

Actual experience is sound, thought, color, smell, taste, sensation and the fact of thought arising, but not its content.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by "looking in actual experience." What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labeled ‘apple’ is known
Color labeled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labeled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labeled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known

However, is an apple actually known?

Have fun and let me know what you find out.

Loving,