The Gate

Good evening Nour and thanks,

. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

The description of actions without I seems more appropriate to me, I is an unnecessary overlap

. What is here without labels?

Sorry I don't understand the question

Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

They describe

Did you notice any differences in the body?

Without me a greater sense of "it's okay like this", on a physical level of openness

What is here without labels?

ah sorry I think I understand.. without labels there is something that cannot be described and in any case even with the labels I see that the "things" are not their labels but rather something that cannot be known, there is no way of knowing, the labels are only a "giving a name", nothing more

Good morning

Great observations. Do you notice the shift between thought stories, labels and direct experience (what is here now)?

ah sorry I think I understand.. without labels there is something that cannot be described and in any case even with the labels I see that the "things" are not their labels but rather something that cannot be known, there is no way of knowing, the labels are only a "giving a name", nothing more

Yes, how about the labels like : I, me, mine, a separate self, a body, ...?

When there are no labels, is there separation between the experience and the knowing (being aware) of it? Is there "me" here and the "world" out there?
Is there awareness of what is here now, without labels?
Does awareness need "I" to shine?

Waiting for your insights

Hi Nour :)

Do you notice the shift between thought stories, labels and direct experience (what is here now)?

Sometimes

Yes, how about the labels like : I, me, mine, a separate self, a body, ...?

Labels, words, i understand it but it doesn't hit the mark

When there are no labels, is there separation between the experience and the knowing (being aware) of it?

No

Is there awareness of what is here now, without labels?

Yes

Does awareness need "I" to shine?

No

Dear Sylvia

You are doing well slowly but surely.
What is the nature of the "I" that doesn't hit the mark?

Here is an exploration of thoughts :

Here is a thought exercise. Sit quietly for about 30 minutes and notice the arising thoughts. Just let them appear as they appear. Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear without you doing anything at all.

Where are they coming from and going to?
Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?
Can you predict your next thought?
Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?
Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence? Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?

Best for you

Hi Nour, thanks for the encouragement!!

What is the nature of the "I" that doesn't hit the mark?

Thought

Where are they coming from and going to?

I wouldn't call it a coming and going, rather they are there and they are not there

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

No

Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?

No

Can you predict your next thought?

No

Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?

No

Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?

No

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

No

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

No

It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence? Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?

Is just anothwr thought that says this

Good evening

It is all going well. Here is an exercise about choice and control.

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.
2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:-

How is the movement controlled?
Does a thought control it?
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.
Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

Waiting for your insights

Good evening Nour

How is the movement controlled?

No control, the movement happens by itself

Does a thought control it?

No

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

No

How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

There is no decision, the hand turns, no responsible thoughts

Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

No choice, I'm right handed, my right hand is more comfortable for me

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

No, just the hand that moves

I allowed myself to extend the exercise to other activities such as walking, typing on the cell phone, etc.

If I look without letting myself be carried away by thought, I see that the movement happens by itself.

Then there are things done "automatically", it often happens to me to do things distractedly, perhaps thinking about something else while the body does it by itself. Or when you stumble or when a sudden situation happens while driving

Body knows what to do, there is no intervention on my part behind it

thank you for your time

Good evening

Good observations. How do you feel to see that there is no you controlling things, no you taking decisions, no you doing things?

Body knows what to do, there is no intervention on my part behind it

Yes, there are happenings without you intervening. What is this "me" hiding here?
Is there you, a separate self in any shape or form?

Seeing is happening, hearing is happening, smelling is happening, tasting is happening, feeling sensations is happening, thinking is happening, being aware of all experiences is happening. Is there a place for a you in all these happenings?

Ponder on each question and elaborate on the answers.

Best wishes

Hi Nour

How do you feel to see that there is no you controlling things, no you taking decisions, no you doing things?

A huge relief, but it's hard to see, most of the time I get carried away by my thoughts and there's always this sense of intentionality underneath... even if I haven't been able to make a decision for a long time. I mean, I wait for the choice to come to me and somehow I know it's going to be the right one.

Yes, there are happenings without you intervening. What is this "me" hiding here?

That which is aware, how if could have (but does not have) the power to decide/direct thoughts and actions

Is there you, a separate self in any shape or form?

Still feeling myself in the body

Seeing is happening, hearing is happening, smelling is happening, tasting is happening, feeling sensations is happening, thinking is happening, being aware of all experiences is happening. Is there a place for a you in all these happenings?

In seeing I feel like I'm behind the eyes
In all other perceptions I feel (or think?) as that which is aware of the sensations.

Hug

Good morning

A huge relief, but it's hard to see, most of the time I get carried away by my thoughts

what is this "I" which gets carried away? LOOK
You have investigated thoughts, is it seen that thoughts are coming and going on their own?
Is there a you owning thoughts ?
Is there a you noticing thoughts or is there just being aware of thoughts?

and there's always this sense of intentionality underneath...

Look at "this sense of intention" : is it a thought? is it a sensation?
Is there a you having intention?

even if I haven't been able to make a decision for a long time. I mean, I wait for the choice to come to me and somehow I know it's going to be the right one.

Is there you waiting?
Is there a you to whom choice will come?

Still feeling myself in the body

In seeing I feel like I'm behind the eyes

Can it be seen, heard, smelt, tasted, felt (as a sensation) or is it just a thought about a self? LOOK behind your eyes at the exact point where the self is supposedly till you SEE it for sure or don't SEE it without a doubt. Come back with a truth answer not an answer from thoughts.

I wish the best for you

Hi Nour

what is this "I" which gets carried away? LOOK

There is no one who gets carried away, there is only a flow of unwanted thoughts (from other thoughts) and thoughts about an I who gets carried away

You have investigated thoughts, is it seen that thoughts are coming and going on their own?

yes, they are absolutely wild

Is there a you owning thoughts ?

Only in thoughts

Is there a you noticing thoughts or is there just being aware of thoughts?

Being aware of thoughts

Look at "this sense of intention" : is it a thought? is it a sensation?

A thought

Is there a you having intention?

There are thoughts that speak of intention

Is there you waiting?

all stories of thought, but the structure recreates itself instantly..

Is there a you to whom choice will come?

I still believe in someone's idea but which has no choice, free will is a sadistic deception

Can it be seen, heard, smelt, tasted, felt (as a sensation) or is it just a thought about a self?

if we exclude the body, I cannot be found in direct experience except as the content of a thought

LOOK behind your eyes at the exact point where the self is supposedly till you SEE it for sure or don't SEE it without a doubt.

Behind the eyes is just a mental image and physical sensations.
I can't find anything else

sometimes I happen to see that they are ALL stories of thought but the fog quickly returns to cover everything and the content of the thought seems so real..

Good evening

sometimes I happen to see that they are ALL stories of thought but the fog quickly returns to cover everything and the content of the thought seems so real..

Yes, it is IT. What you’re describing—seeing that thoughts are just stories, and then feeling the fog roll back in— shows you’ve already glimpsed behind the curtain. That clarity wasn’t false. It’s just that the mind, by its nature, tries to reclaim territory—it wants to be the one who “gets it” or “loses it.”

So here’s something to sit with—not as a riddle to figure out, but as a kind of mirror:

Can the one who sees that thoughts are stories… also be just a story?

Really look.

The moment you say “I saw it, and then the fog returned,” notice how quickly that “I” becomes the central character again. But where is this “I”? Can you find it apart from thought? Apart from the story that says “I am the one having this experience”?

You don’t need to fight the fog. You don’t need to push thoughts away. Just gently turn toward the one who says, “This is happening to me.” And see if that one is anything more than another thought, arising like all the others.

You’re not far. You're actually not anywhere at all. Just here, already the open space where clarity and fog both appear and vanish.

Best wishes

Hi Nour,
to inform you that I'm still here, trying to look

:)

Just look at the flow of life, where there is no place for an "I"

Waiting for your insights