The description of actions without I seems more appropriate to me, I is an unnecessary overlap. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?
Sorry I don't understand the question. What is here without labels?
They describeDo labels affect the experience or just describe it?
Without me a greater sense of "it's okay like this", on a physical level of opennessDid you notice any differences in the body?
ah sorry I think I understand.. without labels there is something that cannot be described and in any case even with the labels I see that the "things" are not their labels but rather something that cannot be known, there is no way of knowing, the labels are only a "giving a name", nothing moreWhat is here without labels?
Yes, how about the labels like : I, me, mine, a separate self, a body, ...?ah sorry I think I understand.. without labels there is something that cannot be described and in any case even with the labels I see that the "things" are not their labels but rather something that cannot be known, there is no way of knowing, the labels are only a "giving a name", nothing more
SometimesDo you notice the shift between thought stories, labels and direct experience (what is here now)?
Labels, words, i understand it but it doesn't hit the markYes, how about the labels like : I, me, mine, a separate self, a body, ...?
NoWhen there are no labels, is there separation between the experience and the knowing (being aware) of it?
YesIs there awareness of what is here now, without labels?
NoDoes awareness need "I" to shine?
ThoughtWhat is the nature of the "I" that doesn't hit the mark?
I wouldn't call it a coming and going, rather they are there and they are not thereWhere are they coming from and going to?
NoDid you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
NoCould you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?
NoCan you predict your next thought?
NoCan you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
NoCan you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?
NoCan you pick and choose any kind of thought?
NoIs it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?
Is just anothwr thought that says thisIt seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence? Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?
No control, the movement happens by itselfHow is the movement controlled?
NoDoes a thought control it?
NoCan a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
There is no decision, the hand turns, no responsible thoughtsHow is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.
No choice, I'm right handed, my right hand is more comfortable for meWho or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?
No, just the hand that movesCan you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?
Yes, there are happenings without you intervening. What is this "me" hiding here?Body knows what to do, there is no intervention on my part behind it
A huge relief, but it's hard to see, most of the time I get carried away by my thoughts and there's always this sense of intentionality underneath... even if I haven't been able to make a decision for a long time. I mean, I wait for the choice to come to me and somehow I know it's going to be the right one.How do you feel to see that there is no you controlling things, no you taking decisions, no you doing things?
That which is aware, how if could have (but does not have) the power to decide/direct thoughts and actionsYes, there are happenings without you intervening. What is this "me" hiding here?
Still feeling myself in the bodyIs there you, a separate self in any shape or form?
In seeing I feel like I'm behind the eyesSeeing is happening, hearing is happening, smelling is happening, tasting is happening, feeling sensations is happening, thinking is happening, being aware of all experiences is happening. Is there a place for a you in all these happenings?
what is this "I" which gets carried away? LOOKA huge relief, but it's hard to see, most of the time I get carried away by my thoughts
Look at "this sense of intention" : is it a thought? is it a sensation?and there's always this sense of intentionality underneath...
Is there you waiting?even if I haven't been able to make a decision for a long time. I mean, I wait for the choice to come to me and somehow I know it's going to be the right one.
Still feeling myself in the body
Can it be seen, heard, smelt, tasted, felt (as a sensation) or is it just a thought about a self? LOOK behind your eyes at the exact point where the self is supposedly till you SEE it for sure or don't SEE it without a doubt. Come back with a truth answer not an answer from thoughts.In seeing I feel like I'm behind the eyes
There is no one who gets carried away, there is only a flow of unwanted thoughts (from other thoughts) and thoughts about an I who gets carried awaywhat is this "I" which gets carried away? LOOK
yes, they are absolutely wildYou have investigated thoughts, is it seen that thoughts are coming and going on their own?
Only in thoughtsIs there a you owning thoughts ?
Being aware of thoughtsIs there a you noticing thoughts or is there just being aware of thoughts?
A thoughtLook at "this sense of intention" : is it a thought? is it a sensation?
There are thoughts that speak of intentionIs there a you having intention?
all stories of thought, but the structure recreates itself instantly..Is there you waiting?
I still believe in someone's idea but which has no choice, free will is a sadistic deceptionIs there a you to whom choice will come?
if we exclude the body, I cannot be found in direct experience except as the content of a thoughtCan it be seen, heard, smelt, tasted, felt (as a sensation) or is it just a thought about a self?
Behind the eyes is just a mental image and physical sensations.LOOK behind your eyes at the exact point where the self is supposedly till you SEE it for sure or don't SEE it without a doubt.
Yes, it is IT. What you’re describing—seeing that thoughts are just stories, and then feeling the fog roll back in— shows you’ve already glimpsed behind the curtain. That clarity wasn’t false. It’s just that the mind, by its nature, tries to reclaim territory—it wants to be the one who “gets it” or “loses it.”sometimes I happen to see that they are ALL stories of thought but the fog quickly returns to cover everything and the content of the thought seems so real..
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