Am I who I think I am?

[poppyseed]

Hi Dot

Thank you for your continued guidance.

It’s my pleasure talking to you :)

Yes I can see that now, it’s as if thought has stepped up a notch to try and derail the inquiry.

Yes! Thought is pulling out its last tricks—trying to reassert control, trying to keep the loop running.
But now it’s obvious, isn’t it? Thought isn’t an enemy, but it also isn’t a truth-teller. It just spins. It can dress itself up as deep doubt, intellectual rigor, or even concern for getting things “right.” But in the end, it’s just another arising, like wind through the trees.
Now that you see this—what happens when you stop chasing the next thought? When you don’t try to resolve, answer, or follow it?
What remains, effortlessly?

There’s just experience. Another thought… what knows experience? Does experience know itself?

Beautiful—there’s just experience. No experiencer.
Now this new thought pops up: “What knows experience?” But does experience need something outside itself to “know” it? Or is that question just another mind-loop, trying to sneak in an observer where none exists?
Look now—without answering conceptually:
Does experience need to be known? Or is it simply this, effortlessly present, self-evident, and ungraspable all at once?
If there’s no experiencer, then is there even “experience”? Or is “experience” just another mental label, another attempt to frame this as something graspable?
Drop even the word “experience.” What’s left?
Anything at all? Or just this, without need for a name?

Sitting here looking around the room, without labelling without adding anything, experience is simply unfolding, nothing is lost, on the contrary, experience is richer and more beautiful without thought cutting, carving, labelling etc.

Beautifully said! This. Unfiltered. Whole.
And here’s the kicker: Was it ever otherwise? Or was the apparent separation, the labelling, the sense of a “self” doing all this… just another thought appearing in the middle of something that never needed it?

I can feel thoughts fighting back saying this all sound so deterministic. This is tough, but really, that’s my direct experience – no separate ‘transformer of actions’.

Yes—thought is scrambling, trying to reassert a position, trying to introduce a problem where there isn’t one. Watch it happen. It throws out “determinism” as if that means something outside of just another label appearing.
But look: Is there anything in direct experience that confirms or denies determinism? Or is it just a concept arising, another attempt to carve up what is seamless?
Right now, without leaning on thought’s commentary—what’s actually missing?

Love
Rali

[dottymoo101]

Hi Rali,

Just to let you know that I'm back online when you're able to respond to my last message.

Best,
Dot

[dottymoo101]

Hi Rali,

Ignore my previous message I've just seen that you've already replied.

Best,
Dot

[dottymoo101]

HI Rali,

Yes! Thought is pulling out its last tricks—trying to reassert control, trying to keep the loop running.
But now it’s obvious, isn’t it? Thought isn’t an enemy, but it also isn’t a truth-teller. It just spins. It can dress itself up as deep doubt, intellectual rigor, or even concern for getting things “right.” But in the end, it’s just another arising, like wind through the trees.

“It just spins” love that.

Now that you see this—what happens when you stop chasing the next thought? When you don’t try to resolve, answer, or follow it? What remains, effortlessly?

When thoughts are not chased what remains is ‘just this’.

Beautiful—there’s just experience. No experiencer.
Now this new thought pops up: “What knows experience?” But does experience need something outside itself to “know” it? Or is that question just another mind-loop, trying to sneak in an observer where none exists?

Gosh, thought is so adept at trying to keep control. It felt like a reasonable question to ask, but once I again, I see that thought is trying to claim and run the ‘show’.

Look now—without answering conceptually:
Does experience need to be known? Or is it simply this, effortlessly present, self-evident, and ungraspable all at once?

Just looking, there’s ‘no-thing’ to know experience. It can’t be known in direct experience. It just is. It doesn’t need to be known. It’s just here, always here, not waiting to be known or grasped.

If there’s no experiencer, then is there even “experience”? Or is “experience” just another mental label, another attempt to frame this as something graspable? Drop even the word “experience.” What’s left? Anything at all? Or just this, without need for a name?

Well if there’s no experiencer to be found, then what is ‘experience’? As you point to, it’s another mental label, another concept to make ‘just this’, definable, graspable, knowable – it’s all empty, even empty is just another label.

And here’s the kicker: Was it ever otherwise? Or was the apparent separation, the labelling, the sense of a “self” doing all this… just another thought appearing in the middle of something that never needed it?

Well nothing actually changed. Just the sense of a separate self ‘doing all this’ has been seen to be illusory, another thought arising.

But look: Is there anything in direct experience that confirms or denies determinism? Or is it just a concept arising, another attempt to carve up what is seamless?

I can’t find determinism anywhere in direct experience. It seems like just another concept—another way thought tries to divide what is actually seamless.

Right now, without leaning on thought’s commentary—what’s actually missing?

Without thought’s commentary, there’s just this. Nothing missing.

Best,
Dot

[poppyseed]

Hi Dot

Wonderful looking!!

Gosh, thought is so adept at trying to keep control. It felt like a reasonable question to ask, but once I again, I see that thought is trying to claim and run the ‘show’.

Yes! Thought keeps spinning, trying to sneak back in as the “operator,” pretending to manage experience.
But every time you check—there’s no actual controller. Just thoughts appearing, claiming ownership after the fact.
Now that this is seen so clearly—what happens if you stop engaging thought’s attempt to take charge? What remains when there's no need to believe in a thinker?

Look deeper…Is there anyone who believes thoughts or not, sees through the illusion of thoughts?
Next time you watch a movie, notice how you get sucked into the story; how emotions come up and judgements appear. Then all of a sudden, there is like a flip back to the room - as if focus zooms out. Observe how it happens. At which point is there a decision to snap out? Is there one that makes that decision or does it simply happen, effortlessly? Is it different from being sucked into mind movies/ getting lost in thought? If there is nobody to believe, is ”believing in the story” actually happening or is it a story about “believing in the story” (more thought content)?
It is just a sequencing of thoughts that creates the illusion of a separate I/ego/mind, like the frames of a movie, where rapid series of still images create the illusion of movement. When frame rate slows down all the illusion of movement is lost.

We can explore time (past and future) and memories if you want, or whatever else is a problem, but let's review where we are at with the following questions:
So nothing changed, but everything looks different, does that make sense in your experience?
What has changed and what hasn’t in normal everyday living. What changes? What stays the same?
What is the biggest difference from before starting this conversation?
Is seeking still going on?
Is there any confusion at all or anything you would like to address?
Can you say with a big fat YES, it is clear what the illusion of a separate self is?

Love
Rali

[dottymoo101]

Hi Rali,

Just to let you know I'm away again this weekend and won't have time to sit fully with the questions. I will try to respond on Monday.

Best, Dot

[dottymoo101]

Hi Rali,

Now that this is seen so clearly—what happens if you stop engaging thought’s attempt to take charge? What remains when there's no need to believe in a thinker?

What remains is a quiet, open ‘space’ where ‘things’ just are, just this. No separate thinker - just life unfolding naturally without extra stories.

Look deeper…Is there anyone who believes thoughts or not, sees through the illusion of thoughts?

There’s no separate believer of thoughts, or someone that see’s through thought. That there is a separate believer of thought is just another layer of thought. There’s simply thoughts arising and dissolving effortlessly, without a need to grasp or label.

Next time you watch a movie, notice how you get sucked into the story; how emotions come up and judgements appear. Then all of a sudden, there is like a flip back to the room - as if focus zooms out. Observe how it happens. ‘zoom-out’

Yes I will. I don’t watch TV so will have to be when I go to the cinema again. However, I have noticed something similar to what you describe sometimes during meditation, distracting thoughts and getting sucked into a story about something or other, then the ‘zoom-out’ moment.

At which point is there a decision to snap out?

In meditation there’s no decision to snap-out out of the distracting thoughts/story, it just happens. Then a another thought/story appears along the lines of “I got distracted by thoughts and now I’ve noticed, I can bring attention back to the ‘object’ of meditation”.

Is there one that makes that decision or does it simply happen, effortlessly?

No it just happens effortlessly.

Is it different from being sucked into mind movies/ getting lost in thought?

No I don't think so.

If there is nobody to believe, is ”believing in the story” actually happening or is it a story about “believing in the story” (more thought content)?

Staying with the meditation example. Distraction happens, the distracting thoughts/story runs. Then another story runs saying “I noticed you were distracted, but now I’ve noticed we can get back to meditating”. Believing in this story isn’t something that actually happens. It’s ust another layer of thought - a story about being aborbed in a story.

We can explore time (past and future) and memories if you want, or whatever else is a problem, but let's review where we are at with the following questions:

Very happy to explore time.

So nothing changed, but everything looks different, does that make sense in your experience?

Yes. Nothing actually changed, life is still happening just has it always has, but everything looks different because the illusion of separate self has been seen through.

What has changed and what hasn’t in normal everyday living. What changes? What stays the same?

Examples of what stays the same:
Everyday life still unfolds as it always did – e.g waking, eating, talking, seeing friends, sleeping
Thoughts, memories, emotions still appear
I haven’t lost track of things in my life
My body moves as it always has
Decisions are made as they always have

Examples of what changes:
The sense of a separate self is missing
Belief in self-growth, self-transformation, self development is no longer compelling
Less reactivity
Less getting stuck over decisions
More effective and efficient when faced with lots of things to do
Less trying to manage outcomes of situations more going with the flow
More ease

What is the biggest difference from before starting this conversation?

Seeing that life happens by itself – thoughts, actions, sensations – all arise effortlessly without a separate controller. There’s not much to say about anything really other than ‘just this’.

Is seeking still going on?

No I don’t think so. I think what I’m noticing in this moment is a habit of thought looking for something else to resolve!

Is there any confusion at all or anything you would like to address?

Right now no confusion and what I notice is thought arising about whether the sense of separate self will creep back in.

Can you say with a big fat YES, it is clear what the illusion of a separate self is?

Yes it is clear

Best,
Dot

[poppyseed]

Hi Dot

Beautiful!!

Right now no confusion and what I notice is thought arising about whether the sense of separate self will creep back in.

And what is that thought other than just another appearance—no different from a sound, a sensation, a passing cloud?
Does it belong to anyone?
Does it mean anything, unless believed?
If the sense of self were to “creep back,” would it be anything other than another temporary movement, seen for what it is—just like this thought?

"Crossing the gate" is only a beginning, not an end. You have not crossed the Gate of happily ever after; no, the Gate is a tiny first step, a very important one, but not a final one by any means. Crossing the Gate is only a step over a line—an imagined one at that. Nothing changed, but everything looks different. The recognition of no self is just the beginning of seeing life and “yourself” in a new light. It takes time to clean up all the "mess", to settle in and adjust.
When the established patterns of a life are disturbed, thought cannot adapt to all of this in an instant, simply by revising all of our old beliefs. Much of the old organisation lingers on, in the guise of a world that we continue to experience and in habitual patterns of thought and activity that our surroundings continue to elicit. That very much applies to seeing the illusion of an “I” - it’s quite a sudden change with a relatively long process of adapting to this change. The recognition of no self is just the beginning of seeing life and “yourself” in a new light. It takes time to clean up all old beliefs and conditioning.

To “deal” with this, question everything, and little by little you will notice changes in everyday life: less judgment, more openness; less thinking, more appreciation; less story, more being; less structure, more flow. You will notice that some habitual thoughts no longer arise. The story changes in a way that allows more space for simply being.
There might still be expectations, confusion, and doubt. That’s quite normal at this stage. You may be swaying between “I get it” and “I don’t get it.” You may be thinking that this is not enough, that some experiences need to happen, that you should be happy and blissful all the time. When these thoughts arise, bring the focus to what is present here now. Just THIS. And look again: what is here that wants THIS to be different (including the presence of doubtful thoughts)?

Very happy to explore time.

Great! There is a general assumption that there is linear time that started (if started at all) somewhere very far in the past and advances to the distant future. The present moment (now) is considered to be a very small fragment of time, or an event that is moving forward on a linear line, coming from the past and advancing to the future.

But is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time?
Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?
Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?
How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?
Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?
How long does the ‘now’ last?
Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?
When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?
What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?
So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?

I hope you would agree that a lot of the illusion of time is due to memories … Almost everybody believes that a memory thought is referring to something that has happened. That a memory thought is a different thought than a non-memory thought.
Please don’t go to thought explanations, but just let a memory be there, and look at it.

Look at what is actually going on and not what thoughts say - but what actually is.

What is memory exactly?
What is the memory ‘made of’?
WHEN does the memory appear?

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

Then, look at a thought about the future.

What is the future thought ‘made of’?
WHEN does the future thought appear?
What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought?
How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?

Then let’s compare a thought about past and a thought about the future.

What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about past and future?

If there is difference and how is that difference is known exactly?
Love
Rali

[dottymoo101]

Hi Rali,

Great! There is a general assumption that there is linear time that started (if started at all) somewhere very far in the past and advances to the distant future. The present moment (now) is considered to be a very small fragment of time, or an event that is moving forward on a linear line, coming from the past and advancing to the future.

But is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time?

Looking, ‘now’ cannot be found in DE, its a concept.

Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?

No boundary can be found between moments. Take the breath for example incoming breath, outgoing breath, there’s no separation and no boundary that can be found in DE, just sensations arising accompanying the flow of breath.

Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?

No, it’s just like breath as above.

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?

There’s no sensation of the ‘present’ moment moving.

Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?

No its always this moment, just this.

How long does the ‘now’ last?

The now is always now.

Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?

The now is always here, no start no end, just now.

When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?

Now never becomes the past, there’s only ever now with thoughts about the ‘past’.

What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?

A collection of thoughts arising now about the ‘past’.

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?

There’s no sensation ‘time’, so no direct experience of time, only thoughts about time.

I hope you would agree that a lot of the illusion of time is due to memories … Almost everybody believes that a memory thought is referring to something that has happened. That a memory thought is a different thought than a non-memory thought.

Please don’t go to thought explanations, but just let a memory be there, and look at it.

Look at what is actually going on and not what thoughts say - but what actually is.

What is memory exactly?

A collection of thoughts.

What is the memory ‘made of’?

Thought images and labels.

WHEN does the memory appear?

It appears now in the present.

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?

There's is no difference.

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

Another thought arises that labels it ‘memory’.


Then, look at a thought about the future.

What is the future thought ‘made of’?

Thought images and labelling.

WHEN does the future thought appear?

In the present, now.

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought?

That the ‘future’ thought is labelling a ‘future’ thought by another thought.

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?

A thought arises that labels it ‘future’.


Then let’s compare a thought about past and a thought about the future.

What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about past and future?

Different labels.

If there is difference and how is that difference is known exactly?

Only the labels differ.

Best,
Dot

[poppyseed]

Hi Dot
Awesome!

No boundary can be found between moments. Take the breath for example incoming breath, outgoing breath, there’s no separation and no boundary that can be found in DE, just sensations arising accompanying the flow of breath.

Exactly. Not a moment in time—just what’s happening, with no beginning or end. In that “space”, you’re right: there’s no boundary. Just the breath, rising… falling… a sensation… a mystery. No boundaries, no divisions—just seamless, flowing appearance.
Not “in” time. Not “in” space. Just this, breath happening, sensations—no start, no stop.
And without a border, without a center… where could a “you” be hiding? Where could anything be separate?
When nothing is broken into parts, what is left to fix, grasp, or control?
And yet—even that knowing… “there’s no separation”… can become a story if we hold it too tightly.
Is there even a “now”? Strip every concept. Don’t define—look.
What is here before the word “now” arises? No timestamp. No duration. No edge.
Just this.
Can you find any now? Can it be found as a slice of time? What you call “now” is just a name for what has never not been—no edge, no center, no timeline. Just this, forever unnameable.

The now is always now.

Yes—undeniable. The now is always now.
But look closer… Right here—before thought moves—what is eternity?
Not endless time. Not infinite duration.
Just the absence of time.
No past. No future.
Only this, always this, never not this.
Eternity isn’t long. It’s immediate.
It’s not something stretched out—it’s what remains when the illusion of time collapses.
Can you find a beginning or end to this?

Can you say with a big fat YES, it is clear what the illusion of a separate self is?

Yes it is clear

We have some checkpoint questions. Would you like to answer these?
Love
Rali

[dottymoo101]

Hi Rali,

We have some checkpoint questions. Would you like to answer these?

Yes I would.

Best,
Dot

[poppyseed]

Hi Dot

Yes I would.

I would give them to you but please answer the questions before that. Let's not leave any unanswered questions ;)

Love
Rali

[poppyseed]

Hey Dot
Are we still doing this?
Love
Rali

[dottymoo101]

Hi Rali,

Are we still doing this?

We sure are :)

I would give them to you but please answer the questions before that. Let's not leave any unanswered questions ;)

Of course.

And without a border, without a center… where could a “you” be hiding?

Without borders and a centre, there’s no place for ‘I’ to hide. ‘I’ cannot be found to reside anywhere in direct experience. All that’s found is this ever-changing flow of thoughts, sensations and perceptions. The sense of ‘I’ is a label applied by mind to separate a ‘self’ from experience.

Where could anything be separate?

Without mind created frames of reference – border, inside, outside, here, there etc – no separate self can exist. Sitting here, there’s sound arising, just sound. The sound isn’t inside or outside of anything, it simply appears. Only when thought steps-in, is the illusion of ‘me in here listening to’ ‘bird singing outside in the garden’ created. But in direct experience no boundary can actually be found between ‘me inside’ and ‘bird outside. Sound appears. Just that.

When nothing is broken into parts, what is left to fix, grasp, or control?

Nothing. What I’m starting to notice is that the sense of separation between ‘me’ and ‘what I’m observing/ experiencing’ is weakened. Thought is less quick to compartmentalise experience in to ‘this, that and the other’, less quick to label. I’m also noticing less resistance, struggle and ownership around wanting things a particular way. Everyday-life feels more simple, less problematic. And there’s less trying to control, because I see now that life was never actually under ‘my’ control to being with, it just been happening all along. It so liberating :)

And yet—even that knowing… “there’s no separation”… can become a story if we hold it too tightly.

Yes even this can turn in to a belief, another view to defend.

Is there even a “now”? Strip every concept. Don’t define—look.

No – just breath, sound, sensation, thoughts – all just happening.

What is here before the word “now” arises? No timestamp. No duration. No edge. Just this.

Just this - always unfolding. Unnameable.

Can you find any now?

‘Now’ does not appear in direct experience.

Can it be found as a slice of time?

 
Not in direct experience only in thought.

But look closer… Right here—before thought moves—what is eternity?

‘Eternity’ does not appear in direct experience. There’s just this. Timeless.

Not endless time. Not infinite duration.
Just the absence of time.
No past. No future.
Only this, always this, never not this.
Eternity isn’t long. It’s immediate.
It’s not something stretched out—it’s what remains when the illusion of time collapses.

Can you find a beginning or end to this?

No beginning or end can be found to ‘this’ in direct experience. Just endless unfolding with no boundaries.

Best,
Dot

[poppyseed]

Hi Dot

I'm really happy to read your reply!

Nothing. What I’m starting to notice is that the sense of separation between ‘me’ and ‘what I’m observing/ experiencing’ is weakened. Thought is less quick to compartmentalise experience in to ‘this, that and the other’, less quick to label. I’m also noticing less resistance, struggle and ownership around wanting things a particular way. Everyday-life feels more simple, less problematic. And there’s less trying to control, because I see now that life was never actually under ‘my’ control to being with, it just been happening all along. It so liberating :)

Beautiful!! Now don’t let this become a story. Don’t let “less resistance” become another identity wearing a spiritual smile.

If there’s no controller, is there any need for effort?
Or does everything keep flowing regardless?
Is there even an ‘observer’ left now? Or only the observing?
Keep burning the illusion now. Not later. Not with “insight.”
Keep on looking.
So—what's here, without a self to hold it?

Here are the questions. Please answer all questions in full, when you are ready. Please answer what's true for you rather than any sort of 'ideal' answer
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days - please give some experiential examples of how life changed for you after seeing through this illusion.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Love
Rali