Fetter and shadow work

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Kokorokandy
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Re: Fetter and shadow work

Postby Kokorokandy » Sun Apr 27, 2025 8:06 am

Rali,
Hello,
In the midst of exhaustion (the story and the labels), what remains untouched while the body aches, while the mind fogs—what hasn’t moved?
While looking into this, I feel asleep twice. It doesn’t have DE but also it was that awareness knowing that I am falling in and out of sleep. [What’s afraid?
What resists the unravelling?
Can you find that?
Where is the fear rooted—if even the body is no longer being clung to?[/quote]
I am not sure, there are probably several reasons but I am looking into this and will get back to you today.

Love
Jenn

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poppyseed
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Re: Fetter and shadow work

Postby poppyseed » Mon Apr 28, 2025 7:32 am

Jenn, beautiful. This is exactly the right place.
Even falling asleep—notice—it happens without control.
The story says "I fell asleep" but... was there ever a choice?
Wasn’t it just part of the seamless movement—no “you” directing it, no “you” managing it?
And now... When you look into what’s afraid, what resists, what tries to hold on…Can you actually find it?
Not the story about fear. Not the ideas of “several reasons” The raw thing.
Is there something solid you can grab as “the one who fears”?
Or is there only sensation—tension, fluttering, heat—and the thought trying to make an owner for them?

Look inside the fear.
Let it open itself. Stay soft. No forcing. No analysing.
Is there a separate center anywhere?
Or is there just trembling, without anyone trembling?

Let the fear finish its message—which is: there’s nothing left to protect.
It was that awareness knowing that I am falling in and out of sleep
Right now—without the word “awareness”, without assuming there’s something “knowing” anything—what’s actually here?
Is there a separate knower? Is there an observer in any form or shape, OR just thought narrating “falling in and out of sleep”?
Just sensations flickering, sounds appearing, thoughts flashing, without anything behind them?

Not awareness. Not a watcher. Just... happening.
If “awareness” is just another label trying to cover the nakedness, then what’s here when even that label drops?

Maybe go back to the unanswered questions about the thinker/knower of thoughts…
Love
Rali
“Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in.”
― Alan Alda
"The moment I am aware that I am aware I am not aware. Awareness means the observer is not"
― Jiddu Krishnamurti

Kokorokandy
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2025 7:15 am

Re: Fetter and shadow work

Postby Kokorokandy » Wed Apr 30, 2025 6:41 am

Rali,
Hello,
In the midst of exhaustion (the story and the labels), what remains untouched while the body aches, while the mind fogs—what hasn’t moved?
While looking into this, I feel asleep twice. It doesn’t have DE but also it was that awareness knowing that I am falling in and out of sleep. [What’s afraid?
What resists the unravelling?
Can you find that?
Where is the fear rooted—if even the body is no longer being clung to?[/quote]
I am not sure, there are probably several reasons but I am looking into this and will get back to you today.

Love
Jenn

Kokorokandy
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2025 7:15 am

Re: Fetter and shadow work

Postby Kokorokandy » Wed Apr 30, 2025 7:05 am

Rali,
I thought I posted this response unfortunately, it did not submit I guess.
was there ever a choice?
Wasn’t it just part of the seamless movement—no “you” directing it, no “you” managing it?
No, it is not a choice, I cannot say sleep and then, snap I am asleep. So it is seamless and yes, there is the attempt to “manage” what is happening. I find myself laughing as I type this out.
When you look into what’s afraid, what resists, what tries to hold on…Can you actually find it?
No, all that was found was body sensations. Then a thought that I am resisting and to let go, which is not anything but a thought that passed quite quickly.
there something solid you can grab as “the one who fears”?
Or is there only sensation—tension, fluttering, heat—and the thought trying to make an owner for them?
It is only body sense. The attached thought that produces the “doer” attempting to control thoughts sensations ect.
what’s actually here?
Is there a separate knower? Is there an observer in any form or shape, OR just thought narrating “falling in and out of sleep”?
Just sensations flickering, sounds appearing, thoughts flashing, without anything behind them?
There is no observer without a thought. It takes a thought to attached the perceived “me” to my body.
If “awareness” is just another label trying to cover the nakedness, then what’s here when even that label drops?
life is left. I can’t really put it into words other than life. Thank you.
Love
Jenn

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poppyseed
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Re: Fetter and shadow work

Postby poppyseed » Wed Apr 30, 2025 8:59 am

Jenn, this is crystal - sharp, raw, honest.
You’re right at the edge. You’re not clinging. You’re not theorizing. You’re seeing.
Let’s anchor this right now:
Life is left.
No “you.” No “awareness.” No manager. No one needing to "let go."
Just life—ungraspable, unlabelled, moving on its own.
If you don’t use the word life, or aliveness, or this, if no thought is allowed to name it—what’s here?
Not the label. Not the idea of something “being.”
Not even “is-ness.”
Just…
...?

Can you find anything that stands apart, that is, that exists?
Or is even the sense of “aliveness” just another faint trace, a word trailing behind what can never be caught?

Strip it further.
No descriptions. No feelings. No meaning. No name.
What’s left?
And ... is there anyone left to ask?

Look again, gently:
If even the thought “I am letting go” is just a ripple, and what’s left is this, what’s missing?
Is there anything still waiting to happen?
Or is this already whole—without a knower, without a witness, without a Jenn?
Stay here.
Don’t describe it.
Don’t capture it.
Just rest.
This is it.
Love
Rali
“Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in.”
― Alan Alda
"The moment I am aware that I am aware I am not aware. Awareness means the observer is not"
― Jiddu Krishnamurti

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poppyseed
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Re: Fetter and shadow work

Postby poppyseed » Sun May 04, 2025 7:10 pm

Hi Jenn
It's been a while... Is everything OK?

Love
Rali
“Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in.”
― Alan Alda
"The moment I am aware that I am aware I am not aware. Awareness means the observer is not"
― Jiddu Krishnamurti

Kokorokandy
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2025 7:15 am

Re: Fetter and shadow work

Postby Kokorokandy » Mon May 05, 2025 8:17 am

Rali,

Hello, I am ok. Work, sick kids, I get on and get pulled to something else.
I am working with this last message. You are correct, I have been experiencing many shifts.
Love
Jenn

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poppyseed
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Re: Fetter and shadow work

Postby poppyseed » Mon May 05, 2025 8:23 am

Hey Jenn
Work, sick kids, I get on and get pulled to something else. I am working with this last message. You are correct, I have been experiencing many shifts.
Life happens and the story about it too.
Notice—did you do any of it? Did you plan or make the shifts happen?
Can you find the one “working with it”? Or is it just this unfolding?


Love
Rali
“Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in.”
― Alan Alda
"The moment I am aware that I am aware I am not aware. Awareness means the observer is not"
― Jiddu Krishnamurti

Kokorokandy
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2025 7:15 am

Re: Fetter and shadow work

Postby Kokorokandy » Fri May 09, 2025 3:18 am

Rali,
did you do any of it? Did you plan or make the shifts happen?
No, things seem to just happen. There is a thought that if I didn’t look into or question my perception that maybe it wouldn’t have happened.
Can you find the one “working with it”? Or is it just this unfolding?
I can not find anyone. However the last few days things happening at work feel very personal. I know this is a story and thought. I try to drop into the direct experience and am finding I am very identified with thought. I know these insights and situations provide fuel for insights.

Side question, are you aware of anyone who works with the emotional part? Like realizing that I have lived experiencing the world through a filter that isn’t reality.

Love
Jenn

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poppyseed
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Re: Fetter and shadow work

Postby poppyseed » Fri May 09, 2025 9:14 am

Hi Jenn
There is a thought that if I didn’t look into or question my perception that maybe it wouldn’t have happened.
Did you use your eyes to look? How exactly did you look? Do you own perceptions? Did you form these in the first place? Are you in charge of changing them for the better? … OR thought is pretty much self-organised? Stories might take years to be checked and discarded. It could a very quick or really slow process. Is this somehow in your control? “Clarity” is a state, not an attribute of THIS. “Clarity” might simply mean that thoughts describe DE instead of creating stories.

Drop every explanation, every label, every idea of who’s looking or why. Just look, what is it that is separate from what is, and trying to figure out how things are?
Is there a self or me here, who is separate and isolated from what is, from reality, and thus is in need to understand reality and fix it?
What is here, right now, before anything is named?

There’s sound, colour, sensation. Yes?
Is any of it called “emotion,” “tension,” “sadness,” until thought slaps a name on it?
Let a sensation come. Don’t name it. Don’t go to the story. Stay with the raw feel. Ask:
Where is the boundary of this sensation?
What shape does it have—before thought defines it?
Can it last? Or is it flickering, shifting, dissolving?
Does it say “this is trauma”? Or is that just thought appearing afterward?

Look without needing to find.
Let the experience reveal itself before “you” step in.
What’s here now, without the one “doing the looking”?
I can not find anyone. However the last few days things happening at work feel very personal. I know this is a story and thought. I try to drop into the direct experience and am finding I am very identified with thought. I know these insights and situations provide fuel for insights.
Yes, Jenn. You saw it …But who tries?
Just look. Is “trying” anything more than a thought arising with tension?
Can you find a doer who chooses between identification and dropping in—or just the experience of thought, sensation, contraction, and narrative looping?

This feeling that things are “very personal”—is that felt in sensation, or just believed in thought?
Noticing of DE happens and noticing of thought content happens. Do you control the noticing? Can you speed it up with some practices that you would do? That is the “seeker’s” problem – they are never happy with what IS, it has to be improved somehow, non-stop bliss and happiness. They want enlightenment RIGHT NOW :)) To “improve” suggest that there is something wrong with it, like it can be different than what it IS. But can it be in a different way than it is now, perfect? Also that suggests there is a doer who makes things happen, does practices, etc. Can you find such doer, practitioner?
Faults and flaws in THIS can be found only in thoughts which, define THIS as “positive or negative”, to be desired or avoided. Surrendering is what is left when resistance to what IS ends. Resistance and surrendering are the two sides of the coin. When you/thoughts get that they cannot control the outcome of THIS in any way, that THIS will happen the way it happens, with or without your approval, surrendering happens. In that surrendering there is peace and happiness, which is ironic, because resistance has sought this for eternity :)))
Look:
Where does the weight come from—direct experience, or storytelling?
Now to your question:
Side question, are you aware of anyone who works with the emotional part? Like realizing that I have lived experiencing the world through a filter that isn’t reality.
Yes, there are those who point into the emotional body—but beware the mind’s move to “emotions as a separate realm.” It is so easy for this to slip into self-help. Are you looking for freedom from unwanted feelings? If so, it’s not how it works. The freedom is to experience all – the good, the bad, and the ugly - without judgement that it’s wrong. The key is to realize that should’s and should not’s are the very things that make for a distorted view.
This entire story of “trauma,” “filter,” “emotional wounds,” is only ever a thought + sensation, labelled. There is no past to fix. No inner child to heal. No wound to resolve.
Just this, right now:
What is the actual difference between a “triggered emotion” and a sensation appearing with a story attached?
Can you find the emotion apart from the label?
Want to look there now?


So yes, every “situation” is an opportunity to really “look” and relabel, and just experience fully. Once the story is seen as just a story it can be taken lightly; it can be entertaining and fun, as well as serious when a situation asks for seriousness. Ultimately, fear and resistance are sensations that prevent us from going into another sensation. Sensations are not to be feared; they are here to be experienced. And even if they are uncomfortable, they add a richness and juiciness to life.

Do you want to explore control, choice and decision making more deeply? Do you maybe want to explore specific "emotion" together?
Love
Rali
“Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in.”
― Alan Alda
"The moment I am aware that I am aware I am not aware. Awareness means the observer is not"
― Jiddu Krishnamurti

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poppyseed
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Re: Fetter and shadow work

Postby poppyseed » Tue May 13, 2025 8:08 am

Hi Jenn
Did you get a chance to sit with the last questions?
I hope all is good on your side ;)

Love
Rali
“Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in.”
― Alan Alda
"The moment I am aware that I am aware I am not aware. Awareness means the observer is not"
― Jiddu Krishnamurti

Kokorokandy
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2025 7:15 am

Re: Fetter and shadow work

Postby Kokorokandy » Tue May 13, 2025 2:28 pm

Rali,

Yes, I have been sitting with the last few questions. I do think feelings are needing to be explored. There is a great deal of trauma that causes the reaction before I even process.i know there is something juicy here. I say this because the pull to be in thought and in my head is so strong that I start to feel crazy. I know I am distracting and did breath work to go into my body. Kk
Did you use your eyes to look? How exactly did you look? Do you own perceptions? Did you form these in the first place? Are you in charge of changing them for the better? … OR thought is pretty much self-organised? Stories might take years to be checked and discarded. It could a very quick or really slow process. Is this somehow in your control? “Clarity” is a state, not an attribute of THIS. “Clarity” might simply mean that thoughts describe DE instead of creating stories.
No, this isn’t in anyone’s control. I cannot decide when a shift will happen, it just happens.
Is this somehow in your control? “Clarity” is a state, not an attribute of THIS. “Clarity” might simply mean that thoughts describe DE instead of creating stories.
This makes sense and feels like relief almost.
Is any of it called “emotion,” “tension,” “sadness,” until thought slaps a name on it?
no, it is body sensations and feelings. Those sensations are believed to be unwanted and uncomfortable.
you want to explore control, choice and decision making more deeply? Do you maybe want to explore specific "emotion" together?
Yes.
Love
Jenn

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poppyseed
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Re: Fetter and shadow work

Postby poppyseed » Wed May 14, 2025 8:39 am

Perfect, Jenn.
You're seeing the pull: thought rushing in to name, to narrate, to rescue you from the rawness of just sensation. And you're not flinching. That’s the shift.
Let’s go right into the emotion now—not conceptually, but directly.
Pick one emotion—one that keeps showing up lately.
Don’t analyse it. Just name it for the sake of focus. Maybe fear. Maybe anger. Maybe grief.
Then: Inquire into the sensation and ask if the sensation itself knows anything about ‘fear’ (‘anger’, etc). Can you find anyone/anything IN the sensation itself, or BEHIND the sensation that is fearful?
Now look at the thought that comes with it. Can you find anyone/anything in the WORD ‘fear’ that is fearful?
Once you are at just raw sensation without the thoughts, allow the sensation all the space it needs without pushing it aside or judging it. Sensations come and then go. But, while you are “there” look at what the thought is trying to protect. Is there anything that needs protecting?

These “problematic sensations”—they arise. Yes. They feel tight, charged, overwhelming maybe. But what makes them “problematic”?
Where’s the problem—in the raw sensation itself, or in the thought that says:
“This is too much.” “I can’t handle this.” “Something’s wrong.”


So now look:
Is there an “I” experiencing the sensations… or just sensations, and thoughts claiming them? Do they belong to anyone? Or are they just happening? Can you find the one it’s happening to?
Let it get as intense as it wants.
Even that intensity—is there someone inside it?
Or is it just:
Sensation…Thought … No experiencer
Don’t run. Let it do its worst. Let it flare up.
Stay with it naked. Don’t manage it. Don’t explain it.
Just ask:
Where is the one who suffers? Can you find it?
Or is that just another thought trying to be someone, right at the center of the storm?
Furthermore, does the existence of “problematic sensations” prove that there is still an “I” in any form or shape?
This inquiry is not in your control. “Uncomfortable” sensations appear and they are looked at closely, from a new angle (or not!). This is a never ending “process”. Your conditioning was not formed in a day, it will not disappear in a day either (if ever). It may take a day, a month, a year, or a lifetime. Is there something wrong with that? Does that mean there is still a person here, that appears in these situations? Or just some lingering stories? When these stories, appear they present an opportunity to be reexamined and to self-correct. If not, that just adds to the juiciness of life.

Let’s look together. Stay with it—not as a practice, but as a scalpel.
No escape. No fixing. No processing. Just what’s actually here, unowned.
Tell me what you find. We’ll slice from there.
Love
Rali
“Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in.”
― Alan Alda
"The moment I am aware that I am aware I am not aware. Awareness means the observer is not"
― Jiddu Krishnamurti

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poppyseed
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Re: Fetter and shadow work

Postby poppyseed » Mon May 19, 2025 8:27 am

Hey Jenn
It's been a while...
“Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in.”
― Alan Alda
"The moment I am aware that I am aware I am not aware. Awareness means the observer is not"
― Jiddu Krishnamurti

User avatar
poppyseed
Posts: 2691
Joined: Sun May 20, 2018 5:28 pm
Location: South Africa
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Re: Fetter and shadow work

Postby poppyseed » Wed May 21, 2025 10:36 am

Hi Jenn
Are you still interested in a inquiry? There are people waiting to be guided ...
Love
Rali
“Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in.”
― Alan Alda
"The moment I am aware that I am aware I am not aware. Awareness means the observer is not"
― Jiddu Krishnamurti


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