Seeking guidance.

[graceabounds]

I feel like a me.

Where is that “me” right now? Not as a thought, but as something you can actually find in direct experience?

All sensations and thoughts are looking for attention. Kind of like children, look at me, look at me, me, me, etc.

Yes.
Sensations arise, thoughts arise, like children for attention, but do they point to a central entity? Or is it just a collection of flickering experiences, none of which claim ownership—until thought comes in and says, “This is me.”?

Thoughts are seemingly distant mostly. Sensations are “louder” and more pronounced.

Good noticing.
Now, when a sensation arises, such as tension or resistance, where exactly is the “I” in that?
Does the sensation itself claim to be “you,” or is it just another arising in experience?

The “I” is in the sensation. Or, that’s where it seems where the resistance is.

Is it? Or is there just a sensation, and then thought jumps in and labels it “me”?

Try this: the next time a strong sensation arises, don’t label it. Don’t call it “resistance,” or “me.” Just experience it raw. Stay with it.
Is there actually a self in it, or is it simply happening?

The “no me” isn’t a concept to understand—it’s a reality to notice. Right now.

Tell me—when you look directly, can you find a “me” separate from experience itself? Or is there just experiencing, happening effortlessly?

In a way, I am space that everything appears.

Are you? Or is that just another thought appearing in that space?

If you are the space, does that space have a boundary? Can you find an edge to it? Can you find a center? Or is it just… limitless?

And if there is no boundary, no center, where exactly is this “I” that claims to be the space? Is there actually an “I” at all, or is there just infinite, open experiencing?

Right now, without reaching for thought—what is aware of this moment? Can you find a separate observer, or is there only this vast, centerless happening?

You are very close. Notice when it becomes clear that the I is not to be found in thought how many other possibilities arise simultaneously for where the I could be. Look directly in each of these places. Let me know if any is particularly ‘sticky’ and we will go deeper.

[JFK1974]

I’ve been exploring on and off all day. Will give details tomorrow. But, the no me confuses me.

[graceabounds]

Great.

This isn’t something that can be figured out by thinking about it. It is seeing through the illusion of something that never existed.

Like Santa Claus. Take a child who believes. To them, Santa is real—not as an idea, but as an actual entity who delivers presents. The belief is reinforced by stories, cultural traditions, and even “evidence” like presents under the tree.

But at some point, the child realizes: There is no Santa Claus. It’s not that Santa existed and then disappeared—rather, there never was a real Santa in the first place. There was only the belief in Santa, and that belief created the illusion of his existence.

Now, apply this to the idea of “me.”

Your sense of self—the “me”—feels real because of years of conditioning, reinforcement, and unquestioned assumptions. But if you look closely, in direct experience, can you actually find a separate, continuous “me” running the show? Or is “me” just a collection of thoughts, sensations, and memories that create the illusion of a solid identity?

[JFK1974]

Your sense of self—the “me”—feels real because of years of conditioning, reinforcement, and unquestioned assumptions. But if you look closely, in direct experience, can you actually find a separate, continuous “me” running the show? Or is “me” just a collection of thoughts, sensations, and memories that create the illusion of a solid identity?

You know, there is something that is “me.” Call it experiencing or awareness. It’s a sense of nothingness. Or even everything.

When very quiet, it’s something that is alive or I am alive. I have recognition when there are no thoughts, I am here. Experiencing but there is still this “me.”

The sensations or thoughts are being experienced. Happening. While in brief moments, I saw they weren’t mine, they feel like mine. The discomfort is there. The pulsating throbbing shooting sensation is there. The thoughts the either trigger it or vice versus, the sensation trigger thoughts are there.

Whether a thought or not, something is holding tightly. Something won’t let go of the tension even when I am completely quiet.

Directly, I see the no self but it isn’t settling. I guess more of a “if no thoughts are there, who am I? Just this quiet beingness. A pretty calm place outside of the sensations that persist.

My body gets to the point, that I feel like a ball of contracted twine. Only sensations. No sense of personhood outside of thoughts arising and falling.

Does any of this make sense?

[graceabounds]

Yes, this makes perfect sense. You’re right at the edge of something crucial—seeing directly that there is no separate, continuous "me" running the show. Yet, something is holding on. Let’s look at that.

Directly, I see the no-self but it isn’t settling.

What would need to happen for it to “settle”?
Who or what is waiting for it to settle?

There’s a recognition of experiencing, awareness, aliveness.
But notice—does that awareness have a center? Is it personal? Or is it just here, without an owner?

The sensations—pulsating, throbbing, contracting—are happening. The thoughts that react to them are happening.
But who do they belong to?
Is there an “I” that owns them?
Or are they just appearing and disappearing, like clouds forming and dissolving in the sky?

Something won’t let go of the tension even when I am completely quiet.

But what is that “something” exactly?
Can you find it?
Is it a thing, or just another sensation/thought appearing in awareness?

My body gets to the point, that I feel like a ball of contracted twine.

Good. Stay with that.
Let it be exactly as it is—without resistance, without trying to change it.
Get as close as possible.
What is it, in direct experience?
If there is no label “contracted,” what is actually there?

The feeling of “me” is just another sensation appearing. See if that lands—not conceptually, but viscerally.
Stay right here.
What happens when there’s no attempt to get rid of anything, to resolve anything?

Tell me:
Right now, without referring to thoughts, sensations, or memory—who are you?

---------------------------------------------------------------
Here's an exercise:
For this exercise you will need to sit yourself near a clock that has an audible second hand.
If you don’t have a ticking clock, then here is a link to a clock on Youtube:
https://youtu.be/v4enYB8IwwE?si=zcim0Tr0dSdHkDPJ

Allow your eyes to close gently.
Listen to the sound. “Tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock”
Focus on the tick tock. Attune to the sound itself.
IGNORE any explanatory thoughts about what must be creating the sound.

Try to find the clock.

1. Going just by the tick tock sound, do you find a clock present?
2. Is there any direct/actual experience of a clock in the sound?
3. Does the sound come self-labelled as originating from the clock?
4. Do you find a clock hidden in the sound?
5. Do you find a clock beyond the sound?
6. In your direct/actual experience of the sound, do you find any evidence that the sound is
caused by a clock?

Allow your eyes to open.

Were you able to establish that in your direct/actual experience of the tick tock sound, that there was a clock?
Were you able to find a division between hearing and sound?
Were you able to establish where hearing ended and sound begin, or was there just pure experience labelled as sound?
For a sound to be ‘known’ then there must be a ‘knowing’ (experience) of sound!
Can a dividing line be found between the ‘knowing’ (experience) of the sound and the sound (known) itself? Or is there only ‘knowingknown’?

Giving you a lot here, so work with it and feel free to break it up into two replies if that is supportive.
Keep going!

[JFK1974]

Good. Stay with that.

Let it be exactly as it is—without resistance, without trying to change it.
Get as close as possible.
What is it, in direct experience?

In direct experience, it’s a sensation. The mind labels it uncomfortable or contracted based on comparison. I “see “ it. I do. But is uncomfortable for something.

If there is no label “contracted,” what is actually there?

Just a sensation. But it doesn’t make easier to dismiss. Frustrating. For whom? I don’t even know right now.

The feeling of “me” is just another sensation appearing. See if that lands—not conceptually, but viscerally.
Stay right here.
What happens when there’s no attempt to get rid of anything, to resolve anything?

Tell me:
Right now, without referring to thoughts, sensations, or memory—who are you?

That’s the problem- letting things be as they are. Intellectually I understand it. Experientially, it’s tough.

I got really quiet. Who am I with no thoughts, memories, or sensations?

I am nothing. A knowing. Thoughtless. Silent. Maybe not A person but something alive. Peaceful. This I experienced.



---------------------------------------------------------------
Here's an exercise:
For this exercise you will need to sit yourself near a clock that has an audible second hand.
If you don’t have a ticking clock, then here is a link to a clock on Youtube:
https://youtu.be/v4enYB8IwwE?si=zcim0Tr0dSdHkDPJ

Allow your eyes to close gently.
Listen to the sound. “Tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock”
Focus on the tick tock. Attune to the sound itself.
IGNORE any explanatory thoughts about what must be creating the sound.

Try to find the clock.

1. Going just by the tick tock sound, do you find a clock present?

only sound. Without reference of a clock, it’s only a hearing.
2. Is there any direct/actual experience of a clock in the sound?

like the first question, the mind makes assumptions. Without sight, in direction experience you cannot determine it’s a clock.
3. Does the sound come self-labelled as originating from the clock?

yes and no, it’s an assumption from past experience. It could be anything but the mind labels a clock.
4. Do you find a clock hidden in the sound? No
5. Do you find a clock beyond the sound? No
6. In your direct/actual experience of the sound, do you find any evidence that the sound is
caused by a clock?

not in direct experience. Only in referencing thiughts and memories

Allow your eyes to open.

Were you able to establish that in your direct/actual experience of the tick tock sound, that there was a clock?

When looking, yes

Were you able to find a division between hearing and sound?

No division between sound and hearing- only hearing

Were you able to establish where hearing ended and sound begin, or was there just pure experience labelled as sound?
For a sound to be ‘known’ then there must be a ‘knowing’ (experience) of sound!

Only sound or hearing or knowing.

Can a dividing line be found between the ‘knowing’ (experience) of the sound and the sound (known) itself? Or is there only ‘knowingknown’?

The mind divides and categories. It sets boundaries. Beginning and end. Start and finish. In actual experience it’s without duality.

Giving you a lot here, so work with it and feel free to break it up into two replies if that is supportive.
Keep going!

[JFK1974]

I wanted to let you know that I am grateful for your help. It has been a blessing and helping me see through all this conditioning and the suffering. Thank you!

[graceabounds]

I’m grateful. Just stay with it…

That’s the problem- letting things be as they are

Is it? Do things need to be different or is that another thought?
There is noone in control. Never has been. What happens if you stop resisting what is?

The mind divides and categories. It sets boundaries. Beginning and end. Start and finish. In actual experience it’s without duality.

Exactly.
It sets boundaries but where exactly is the boundary?!
Can you find one—between self and other, inside and outside, awareness and experience?

Or is all of that just mental labeling, happening within the very thing it’s trying to divide?

Without leaning on thought, is there a center to this experience? Is there anyone inside it, managing it?

Could it be just THIS—seamless, boundless, and already complete?

I am nothing. A knowing. Thoughtless. Silent. Maybe not A person but something alive. Peaceful. This I experienced.

Good!
Did that peace come from getting something or from the falling away of something?

If you do absolutely nothing, right now, what remains?

[JFK1974]

Here you go. During my morning meditation, this is what I noticed. I went into it with “allowing” of whatever comes up.

Initially, almost immediately, I sunk into a focused ball of sensations. Intense. Like fireworks. However, it was like watching a movie so to speak. It was felt but not personal really. Tolerable. The mind was kind of quiet.

Then, the mind got active, it became difficult to stay, but still “I” watched. That is where the suffering started. “When will this pass?” “I thought if I allowed, it will go.” Constant describing, figuring out, etc.

Until the mind got involved, it was a boundary-less experience. Sensations without judgement, fear, a purpose. Just feeling. Once the mind started, it was personal. Something to get beyond.

I don’t know how to stop resisting or let go. I know it’s not up to me regardless of how much I try to breathe, relax, etc.

The mind is a master manipulator. It creates fears and insecurities from thoughts that appear real and true. In observation it’s easy to see, but the body reacts, and you get pulled in. Hence the illusion. Yes, it’s witnessed or observed. Always is.

I feel like the center when the mind is involved. Without it, I just am. It’s easier. Less personal. How do I live this way?

How do I stop trying to manage and allow, accept, let go, and surrender? I feel something holding on. Without a thought, it’s just an intense sensation.

Looking for your wisdom. Thank you and much appreciation!

[graceabounds]

You’re seeing the core mechanism of identification at work. When the sensations were just happening, they were free—intense, boundless, without a center. The moment thought intervened with its questions—“When will this pass?”—suffering arose. Why? Because the mind claimed ownership over the experience.

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.
This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation ie is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”. For example: I am sitting on a chair, I am hearing a clock ticking, I am looking at a computer screen, I am feeling hungry. Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs. For example: sitting on a chair, typing, breathing, blinking, hearing the clock. (Again, watch what is happening in the body.)
At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following:
1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?
2. What is here without labels?
3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?
4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

I don’t know how to stop resisting or let go.

What if there is nothing to “let go of”? What if even the effort to surrender is another move of the mind to control?
The attempt to allow, accept, or manage is still reinforcing the subtle illusion of a “you” that needs to do something.

Right now, as you read this—where is the one holding on? Don’t analyze it. Look.
Can you actually find a separate “something” resisting? Or is it just a sensation appearing and disappearing, with thought wrapping a story around it?

Without a thought, it’s just an intense sensation.

Exactly. That’s all it ever was.
What happens when you stop asking how to surrender and instead just experience raw sensation with no interpretation?

Try it now.

What remains?

[JFK1974]

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?
2. What is here without labels?
3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?
4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

I don’t think one is truer. Just more accurate. Second way describes. First makes personal.

What is here- experiencing. Doing, hearing, seeing, being

Definitely affect experience. Labels make personal. I feel a sensation compared feeling a sensation. One is about me. Other is happening.

I felt more relaxed the second time. Body settled more. Mind slowed a little.

What if there is nothing to “let go of”? What if even the effort to surrender is another move of the mind to control?
The attempt to allow, accept, or manage is still reinforcing the subtle illusion of a “you” that needs to do something.

Right now, as you read this—where is the one holding on? Don’t analyze it. Look.
Can you actually find a separate “something” resisting? Or is it just a sensation appearing and disappearing, with thought wrapping a story around it?

I can’t find anything holding on or resisting. Without thoughts, it’s only experiencing. Saw it clearly. With eyes closed, I am nothing. Only hearing, feeling, thinking. No one there. The mind describes. Which makes it seem like “I” am doing.

Exactly. That’s all it ever was.
What happens when you stop asking how to surrender and instead just experience raw sensation with no interpretation?

Literally, just is. With eyes closed, really can’t determine what we are except 5 senses. When eyes opened. There’s a body. And mind interprets, describes, creates division. Eyes closed, no boundaries or divisions.

Question- I feel so much energy moving. Can you elaborate?

[graceabounds]

Lovely.

When eyes opened. There’s a body. And mind interprets, describes, creates division. Eyes closed, no boundaries or divisions.

Try this:

Sit comfortably in a quiet space with your eyes open.

Pick an object in front of you—a cup, a chair, your hand.

Drop the labels. Forget that it’s a “cup” or a “chair.” Just look. See the shapes, the textures, the colors.

Notice what happens when you say “I see a cup.” Is there an “I” doing the seeing, or is seeing just happening?

Now, remove “I” from the equation. Just experience seeing itself. What is there before thought says “cup”?

Shift your focus to something else. Notice how vision happens effortlessly, without an observer.

Is there a ‘seer,’ or only seeing? Look for the one who is doing the seeing. Can it be found?

Don’t think about it. Just look.

What do you find?

Question- I feel so much energy moving. Can you elaborate?

This happens when very close.

I can’t find anything holding on or resisting. Without thoughts, it’s only experiencing.

At the beginning of this dialogue I said something about the inner drive to look going a long way… it is almost like the seeking energy itself has momentum and is able to release ‘you’ from the doing. Get in the passenger seat John…

[JFK1974]

“

Your comfort zone is not the best place for your spiritual awakening….
unfortunately…
(sorry about that.)”
- Eckhart Tolle

This is the truth!! What book of his?

I will do your suggestions early tomorrow. Looking forward to it. I could spend all day doing this stuff.

“Inner drive.” Pretty relentless.

[graceabounds]

Wasn’t from a book. One of his talks.

There’s another quote I wrote down today from an Amoda Maa talk, feels timely:
“You can’t say you want the end of suffering, you want to be free, and still hold on to some sense of Self derived from the movie of your life.”

:)

[JFK1974]

That’s starting to make sense. Thank you! I will look Amoba up.