Liberation

[graceabounds]

It appears that what we call the self is more like a temporary pattern of attention and identification. Without thought, it is never fixed, never truly “there” in the way we usually imagine it. It’s kind of a strange feeling that comes up when I think about it… it fills the body. By

Tell me more… what is this strange feeling, what is the sensation that fills the body? How does it move? Where does it originate when it comes up?

No bridge is necessary, no, but what is needed is time — time to remain more in awareness, less in autopilot…

Let’s look at time.

There is a general assumption that there is linear time that started (if started at all) somewhere very far in the past and advances to the distant future. The present moment (now) is considered to be a very small fragment of time, or an event that is moving forward on a linear line, coming from the past and advancing to the future.

But is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time?
Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?
Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?
Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?

How long does the ‘now’ last?
Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?
When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?
What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?

[MarRaim123]

Tell me more… what is this strange feeling, what is the sensation that fills the body? How does it move? Where does it come from when it appears?

"I" kept thinking about it yesterday and noticed that it is the same as that feeling which is also triggered by thoughts. For example: I again had the feeling of a self, a thought came in — a memory of a bike shop I went in a few days before. This then filled me — and I was quite surprised to realize that both were the same — an illusion, a thought, or whatever it is, in any case having the same quality.

No bridge is necessary, no — but what is needed is time — time to remain more in awareness and less in autopilot…
Let’s look at time.


(...) How long does the “now” last?
Where does the “now” begin, and where does it end?
When exactly does the “now” become the past?
What is the “past” in actual experience?

So is there actual experience of “time” — or thoughts about “time”?

So, I’ve thought a lot about it now, and I’d like to respond with the experience that followed the thinking — and perhaps it doesn’t fully address the questions:
Yesterday I stood in front of the mirror, and once again a certain feeling came over me — some might call it oneness — absence of separation — I’ll just call it a state, because I don’t know what it is. But it wasn’t unlike the feeling in the department store I told you about. I was looking at my hand in the mirror as it opened the makeup powder. Then “the” hand moved across the face — and it was a completely different feeling than before. I can’t describe it. It was simply the hand moving across the face — not my hand, only "the" hand. It brought so much joy that “I” wanted to keep this state, and for minutes I kept moving “the” hand across “the” face until it was completely smeared and brown with makeup. Joy overwhelmed “me.”

And now to the time aspect: I think I felt some kind of unity here, or a state in which truly “the” hand was doing something — not my hand. But then it was over again — this time interrupted by great joy — back then, in the department store, it was interrupted by fear. And now, as I write this, I am again “I,” as always. So, somehow I do think that there is some kind of “time,” or that it takes “time for training” to condition the brain in this direction… right?

... I feel like in the movie The Matrix, where flashes of reality keep breaking through, but Neo still mostly remains in the unreal world. Or like someone who keeps catching the “edge” of reality, but it remains only in flashes. My only hypothesis about this is that it requires more training…???

[graceabounds]

Very good Ina.

The “I” and the bike shop are the same. Not two different types of thing. Not a subject and an object. Simply two thought-events, arising and dissolving, made of the same stuff:
Imagination.

:)

So now the question becomes even simpler:
If the self is just another thought-event… who needs to be free of it?


And about the hand, moving. Yes, it isn’t a “state.”
This is unfiltered perception. You didn’t enter anything. You exited the filter of ownership.

The body was doing what it always does.
But the story of a “me” doing it was gone.

It was never there. So there is no need to cling to it and reify the thing that believes it has control of seeing or not seeing.

Next, to begin to unravel your question about ‘time for training’ go back through those questions about time, look directly, and answer each one and let’s see what else is here.

-Becca

[MarRaim123]

...then back to the questions: How long does the “now” last?
Where does the “now” begin, and where does it end?
When exactly does the “now” become the past?
What is the “past” in actual experience?

The “now” has no measurable duration. When I look directly, what I find is always experience — sensations, perceptions, thoughts — arising and dissolving. Any attempt to measure it in time is already a thought about it, not the direct experience itself.

There is no identifiable starting or ending point of the “now.” It is not a segment on a timeline; it is simply the immediate presence in which all experiences appear. Beginning and end exist only as concepts.

Maybe an example: when I am very angry, I’ve started trying to shift my focus to my heartbeat, to my muscle tension… so to speak, to the basic framework of all experience. By doing that, I am quite quickly diverted from the emotion — from the “hologram” that overlays this framework, or that controls it. Yes, it works — not always, but when the focus is really there.

The “now” becomes the past only in thought — when the mind labels a previous experience as “past.” In direct experience, everything is happening now. What we call the past is just memory arising in the present moment.

What is the “past” in actual experience?
The past does not appear as an independent reality. What is experienced as the past is a present thought or memory — a mental representation that arises in the current moment. It exists only as present experience, not as a separate timeline.
The experience with the bike shop was very formative — now I categorize everything in a very similar way — whether it’s the past (meaning the thought of it), whether it’s the sense of time, whether it’s the sense of self… Seeing all of it as a sensation has helped a lot.

[graceabounds]

Very good.

And I know just what you mean about the bike shop being a kind of landmark.

So if the past is only a thought,
and the self is only a thought,
and even “the now” is only a label…
what is actually here, if you stop thinking?

What do you find, when there’s no commentary?

[MarRaim123]

What did i find... ;)
Yes, it has become quite clear now — I also “found” it last night in a big way. I couldn’t sleep anymore from 2 a.m. and was about 70% in the “real,” meaning every thought dissolved and the “basic framework” of sensing and perception was mostly present. I had the association that a birth would take place soon (i.e., the feeling I had before giving birth), but… in the morning a rather strong feeling of fear came, which plagued me until around noon. Even then, I kept trying to return to the “basic framework,” but it was so distressing that I put the “looking” aside for a while. Since yesterday I’ve basically not been placing my focus on the “real” anymore and I’m currently in standby mode. I know I will continue, but I’m kind of in a “recovery phase.” In between there were also nightmares and similar things, although I’m not entirely sure if it all came from this, but it may already be contributing. But it’s not a bad feeling now — I know I will continue, I’m just taking a break at the moment…

[graceabounds]

Hello dear,

Very good. Sleeplessness is common, in the end the world as you know it, the orientation to it, is being turned upside down as the illusion falls.

‘You’ aren’t going to want to hear this, but the way through is to turn towards the fear…
Just as in the birthing process the only way out is through.

So,
What is the fear? Where is it? How is it known?

Becca

[MarRaim123]

What is the fear?
It is a kind of “annihilation anxiety” that determines my entire existence; I haven’t had it this intensely for a long time — mostly in those times when I reacted hypochondrically. Everything is seen and expected in a negative way. I couldn’t even say that it manifests on a physical level (heart pounding, muscle tension...), it’s more like a grey veil, where I can hardly find an underlying framework of perception — the kind I always find with other emotions (like heart pounding…). Yes, a grey veil, but a destructive grey veil — that might be the best description…Maybe it’s a kind of “depression” – not characterized by constant vegetative symptoms, but rather by a state that somehow pulls you down.
In my case, it would then be an anxiety-depression, which was present throughout the entire morning.
Seeing life in a positive way just wasn’t possible… quite destructive… it’s hard to find any kind of inner structure here…

[MarRaim123]

Yes, I know that I have to go through this anxiety… and I will. I’m feeling optimistic about it, but I honestly needed a short break. This will definitely continue…

[graceabounds]

Very good. Keep going.

Can you allow the grey veil to be exactly as it is, without labeling, fixing, escaping, or trying to shift it?

And look: Who is being pulled down?

[MarRaim123]

Yes, I can see the grey veil for what it is — but it’s easy to say that when emotions are mild. When the feelings become that intense, it’s different; you just want to get out of the grey veil, out of that state — you want it to stop, no matter how. Even if it means ending the “looking.”

It’s similar to our communication, when I asked you whether it makes sense to practice in “low-stimulus” states — like in dog training, where you also don’t start at level 30… I don’t know if level 30 is even possible for me yet, when it comes to “looking.” Maybe I just need a few more inputs?!

I do know that it wasn’t “me” who got thrown out of the process, but that the system — life itself — activated this protective mechanism. Still, it feels so constricting that you just want to get out… even if it means sacrificing the process of looking.

It’s time to step back in now… but how to stay with it, in such intense states — when, at the moment, not even vegetative symptoms, perception… bodily sensations can be felt to turn toward — when it’s simply a state where I can’t find any anchor in perception anywhere…

[graceabounds]

I don’t know if level 30 is even possible for me yet, when it comes to “looking.” Maybe I just need a few more inputs?!

It isn’t possible for ‘you’, and the ‘you’ who needs more inputs will continue to avoid looking…

it feels so constricting that you just want to get out…

and yet what is there that does not want to get out?
even in the disorientation, the ungroundedness, something remains… what is that? what does not need to escape and is always just here with what is?

[MarRaim123]

Well — I think it’s the nervous system that sounded the alarm and “brought the I back to life” in order to get out of that state. And in that moment, it was worth it to “me,” even at the cost of leaving the level of pure awareness. It’s probably part of the process, right? It seems that when there’s a loss of control, the nervous system triggers a massive protective reaction…

Still, I notice how much easier it is to explore “reality” and focus on pure perception in states that are not too overstimulated…

Could you explain the second part of your statement a bit more vividly? I’m not entirely sure what you mean there.

[graceabounds]

Said in another way, even in the midst of intense feelings or the nervous system sounding an alarm, is there something untouched by those sensations?

But lets take a step in a different direction for the moment…

Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes.
Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:
Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume?
In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?
Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Is there an inside or an outside?
If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

Look very carefully, especially with the last question. Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, etc) before replying.

[MarRaim123]

To your questions: I did it the last 2 days. No, definitely not is there a boundary, or a knowing auf in and out..... BUT: I notice that I have a problem with these kinds of questions. As soon as I ask myself such a question, a kind of “switch” flips, and a hologram-like image overlays everything — and it’s impossible to get rid of it. That means: the moment I ask one of your questions, I immediately see my body in mental images, knowing it’s an illusion, yet it remains very persistent. Then a process starts where I get frustrated that this “image” won’t disappear — which, of course, only makes it stay even more.

It’s much easier for me when I simply stand and perceive purely. Like yesterday, for example, when I happened to bend down and looked at my legs — in that moment I noticed that I wasn’t identified with an “I” at all, but perception simply happened. That works quite well. But they are still only flashes, brief moments. I can already feel pure perception quite well, but I keep slipping out of it again. Even while driving, I notice that the identification with the “I” sometimes starts to crumble — it’s as if there is only pure perception. My problem is that I quickly slip out of this state… maybe you could help me with that?