Making sure I've fully seen through

[Honey]

Without thoughts would you have any sense of self

No, because self is just a made up word like apple is. At least the apple can be seen.

[Anastacia42]

Okay give this a try:

Palm Flipping Exercise

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.

2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience.

Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:

How is the movement controlled?

Does a thought control it?

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

How is the decision made to turn the hand over?

Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

Who or what ​ chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

Loving,

[Anastacia42]

Still there?

[Honey]

Yes still here… have a guest that arrived, back soon.

[Honey]

How is the movement controlled?

It’s not controlled.

Does a thought control it?

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

No

How is the decision made to turn the hand over?

There is no decision; it just happens. It’s weird cause it seemed like there was a first decision based on the question that was asked by you and a response to that, but as the hand flipped back and forth, no decisions.

Who or what ​chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

No one.

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

No

[Honey]

Does a thought control it?

No (sorry didn’t write that in the first message)

[Honey]

Me:

There is no decision; it just happens. It’s weird cause it seemed like there was a first decision based on the question that was asked by you and a response to that, but as the hand flipped back and forth, no decisions.

On second hand, there was no decision ever really, just an action that followed in response. A decision would require a decision maker AND a point in time where a decision is made, but there is not a decision maker NOR a point in time, because there are no points and no time.

[Anastacia42]

All true.

Can you say whether you've had a shift in perception?

If so, how does it FEEL?

Loving,

[Honey]

Can you say whether you've had a shift in perception?

I can’t say that seeing there is no separate self is new, or that there has been a shift in perspective; but there is a belief that I am identified as a separate self because personal, separate self insecurities keep getting triggered and despite the awareness of what’s happening I give it energy at times. How could that happen if I had truly seen what is implied by all this?

PS Stacy, I keep forgetting to mention how useful that Adyashanti quote has been and how much I love it. It comes to mind often,for me and my partner both now (and he’s not even really into this stuff) stuff!)

[Anastacia42]

Very glad the quote helps.

So you've never had a shift in perception? Your understanding of no self is all in your thinking?

Did I share these? Watch these, please:

https://youtu.be/vJQcD588g2w

and

https://youtu.be/PUDzrCLlrj4



Maybe you'd like to look at 10 Fetters model. There are groups.

This is one resource:

https://youtu.be/a_8N331jpA4?si=d8dbALmnDOl_VnPM


Loving

[Honey]

So you've never had a shift in perception?

I just don’t ever remember a moment of a shift. There have been lots of shifts and glimpses of nondual states and spiritual experiences that didn’t last and whatnot but in terms of a shift from believing I was a self to seeing there is no self, I would say there has never been “a shift” so to speak. It’s just the way it is. I also don’t think I ever had a strong sense of self to begin with.

Your understanding of no self is all in your thinking?

Well no, because thought stops when I look for a self and don’t find it. The belief in a self requires thought and imaginings of what it is.

[Honey]

Yes, you shared the first two videos. We discussed them earlier. I will watch the fetter video you posted. I have also been looking at the Awakening Curriculum videos on the fetters. They are very practical.

[Honey]

Yes, you shared the first two videos. We discussed them earlier. I will watch the fetter video you posted. I have also been looking at the Awakening Curriculum videos on the fetters. They are very practical.

[Honey]

Oh I see you posted Pernilla’s video. Yes I love her and Todd’s approach.

[Anastacia42]

Okay. What's missing?

Loving,