I want to break free!

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ty0
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Re: I want to break free!

Postby ty0 » Sat Oct 12, 2024 3:54 pm

Do you notice that with the "simple things", there is no goal attached to them apart from enjoying yourself? I would even say this "inner work" can be grouped together with the things that make self feel better as an activity with a goal. It's something you do because you're trying to change something. If you still enjoy walking, petting your cat, hiking, etc., I wouldn't say you suffer from a lack of motivation at all. I've also stopped doing many "productive" things I used to do, and fill my time up with more things that I enjoy. I would say much of your goal-oriented fear-based motivation has simply dropped. There's still one huge goal-oriented fear-based activity which is this inner work though, hahah.

I would say it definitely bothers me more when it's about MY life, as I feel like other peoples life is none of my business, but I can perhaps also be bothered if I see someone close to me "waste" their life in the same way.
Ironically, I started out thinking that people who weren't working hard to achieve things were wasting their lives by focusing on enjoyment, rather than the REAL important thing, progress. Then I got into spirituality, and I thought successful businessmen and politicians were wasting their lives by focusing on progress, rather than the REAL important thing, ending suffering. But now, I don't feel like anyone is wasting anything anymore. Wasting what? This is it. What could be more or less important than whatever you're doing right now?

Yes, and what's funny is that I don't even have an idea of WHAT it is that is "worth doing". There is just a desire to get the most out of life, whatever that means.
Yeah, without even knowing what it means, you just know you have to get the best that you can get 😂😂. Because THAT'S what's important 😂😂

Take my words with a grain of salt. I think this may be connected to the sense of purpose. Why do you do the things you do? Do you always make your decisions trying to get the most/best out of everything you can? Do you regret choices, thinking about how you could have done something different and things would have turned out better? This whole decision-making mechanism and "getting the best you can" thing is quite tied in to the sense of self.

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Sonofnature
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Re: I want to break free!

Postby Sonofnature » Sun Oct 13, 2024 11:42 am

Do you notice that with the "simple things", there is no goal attached to them apart from enjoying yourself? I would even say this "inner work" can be grouped together with the things that make self feel better as an activity with a goal. It's something you do because you're trying to change something. If you still enjoy walking, petting your cat, hiking, etc., I wouldn't say you suffer from a lack of motivation at all. I've also stopped doing many "productive" things I used to do, and fill my time up with more things that I enjoy. I would say much of your goal-oriented fear-based motivation has simply dropped. There's still one huge goal-oriented fear-based activity which is this inner work though, hahah.


I wouldn't say the simple things don't have any goal attached to them. The goal of walking my dog is prompted by believing a story about his quality of life being partly determined by him being able to go on walks or not. This story is attached to another story about being responsible for him that triggers sensations that are interpreted as unpleasant (guilt), so the goal is ultimately to relieve this guilt. Similar processes can be said with petting my cat and hiking. I guess we could call that motivation though.

But what I find interesting about what you are pointing out, is that things that there is no motivation for anymore are those things that I did to be perceived in a way by "others".
Ironically, I started out thinking that people who weren't working hard to achieve things were wasting their lives by focusing on enjoyment, rather than the REAL important thing, progress. Then I got into spirituality, and I thought successful businessmen and politicians were wasting their lives by focusing on progress, rather than the REAL important thing, ending suffering. But now, I don't feel like anyone is wasting anything anymore. Wasting what? This is it. What could be more or less important than whatever you're doing right now?
I can totally relate to this, and I get into this perspective, but it's not the norm, the norm is the perspective of ending suffering. I need a reminder to get me into the perspective that this is it. There is nothing else.
Take my words with a grain of salt. I think this may be connected to the sense of purpose. Why do you do the things you do? Do you always make your decisions trying to get the most/best out of everything you can? Do you regret choices, thinking about how you could have done something different and things would have turned out better? This whole decision-making mechanism and "getting the best you can" thing is quite tied in to the sense of self.
You are definitely on to something. There is a mechanism that seems to need a purpose in order to be motivated to do stuff. If there is no seeming purpose, there is a subtle or not-so-subtle sensation labeled resistance. This is probably why motivation for a lot of things have dropped, because I no longer see it's purpose.

There is a lot less regretting, but it does happen from time to time, followed by a noticing and then dropping it.

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Sonofnature
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Re: I want to break free!

Postby Sonofnature » Sun Oct 13, 2024 12:46 pm

To add to my previous response to there being a goal to walking my dog, I can see that it isn't as simple as I described it, because there is another side to it. On one side there is guilt if I don't take him out, but on the other side of the coin, there is also heaps of love for him, which is where the pleasure comes in. It gives me pleasure to see him happy. Which isn't really a goal, but an outcome of the experience.

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ty0
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Re: I want to break free!

Postby ty0 » Sun Oct 13, 2024 1:07 pm

So then it comes back to this thing about you feeling like you're wasting your life or whatever. But when you look at what's happening, isn't what's happening just what's happening? Is there even a "your life" as some kind of precious, limited resource here outside of your imagination? Before you think about "your life" as a concept, does it exist in direct experience?

I assume you have a lot of free time based on our conversations, so I'd like to set you a challenge. See if you can go a whole day noticing every time you imagine a time beyond the same day. So if you're planning what to make for dinner, that's fine, but try to catch whenever you're making plans or making judgements that require you to imagine a time before or after today. You don't have to stop it or judge the thoughts, just noticing is enough. You don't have to judge if you failed to notice, just noticing the failure of noticing is enough.

How much of your problems exist within the concept "today"?

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Sonofnature
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Re: I want to break free!

Postby Sonofnature » Mon Oct 14, 2024 8:41 am

So then it comes back to this thing about you feeling like you're wasting your life or whatever. But when you look at what's happening, isn't what's happening just what's happening? Is there even a "your life" as some kind of precious, limited resource here outside of your imagination? Before you think about "your life" as a concept, does it exist in direct experience?
In direct experience, there is just what is. There is no reference to a "me" or "mine". But there is no anchor to direct experience yet.
How much of your problems exist within the concept "today"?
There wasn't a lot of referencing past or future. There was one time when my wife was asking me about some plans she was making for our trip to Thailand next month to visit her family and another time when I noticed I got a bit activated by her complaining about something I hadn't done, where I was looking into the past where this trigger might have it's roots. Other than that, there were no "problems".

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Sonofnature
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Re: I want to break free!

Postby Sonofnature » Thu Oct 17, 2024 5:56 pm

Hey Tyler,

Today I realised a subtle identification with awareness. There was a belief that being aware of being aware, is the "correct" place to be, and so if there is no awareness of being aware or "lost in thought" so to speak, that this was not "awake". Now it's clear that being lost in thought is actually a place where there is no identification at all, and it still is what is.

Does that make sense?

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ty0
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Re: I want to break free!

Postby ty0 » Fri Oct 18, 2024 9:03 am

Yes. Thoughts are thoughts are what is. Sure, getting lost in and believing thoughts tends to cause suffering, but suffering is what is. "Awake" is just a thought. "Being aware of being aware" is just when the concept of "being aware" is in experience. "Being aware" is not an actual thing you can experience, is it?

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Sonofnature
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Re: I want to break free!

Postby Sonofnature » Fri Oct 18, 2024 10:36 am

Being aware is an after-thought about being aware of whatever is in attention in the moment, is how it is seen here.

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ty0
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Re: I want to break free!

Postby ty0 » Fri Oct 18, 2024 1:03 pm

Yes.. being aware is always too late. We can only "be aware" of memories

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Sonofnature
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Re: I want to break free!

Postby Sonofnature » Fri Oct 18, 2024 7:04 pm

Tyler, can I ask for your take on emotional work? Have you done any yourself? How did you go about it?

The reason behind the questions is sort of a doubt of the legitimacy of most modalities that seemingly addresses so-called shadow-work. The doubt revolves around focusing too much on stories. There is a sense of just stomping around in circles in the same shit, where some external "guide" is offering interpretations of what is happening. When we can't really know.

Any thoughts?

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ty0
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Re: I want to break free!

Postby ty0 » Sat Oct 19, 2024 2:17 am

I also doubt the legitimacy of a lot of these methods hahah. Emotion work at its core is just feeling your emotions without trying to distract yourself from them. So why would any extra method be necessary? Shadow work happens everyday to some extent when you feel unpleasant things and you feel resistance to them. Feel them.

Of course, some methods can be helpful in digging up repressed emotion to be felt, but the actual work is feeling them. I'm not well-versed in these methods because, in my experience, everything comes up on its own eventually so I've never really learned much about these modalities.

I do think that many people with mental illnesses and very deep-seated trauma would benefit from some kind of more deliberate methods, like therapy, psychedelics, etc.

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Sonofnature
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Re: I want to break free!

Postby Sonofnature » Mon Oct 21, 2024 7:11 pm

Hehe, right. I think one of the most important aspects of emotional work is seeing that there is nothing wrong with so-called difficult emotions, they are as much a natural part of life as the so-called pleasant ones and so there is nothing to fix, just feel.

So what is your take on our process here? How do you evaluate this?

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ty0
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Re: I want to break free!

Postby ty0 » Mon Oct 21, 2024 11:59 pm

Close your eyes, listen to the sounds, and smile. Smile, feel the sensations, hear the sounds, and continue to smile.
So what is your take on our process here? How do you evaluate this?
I don't know. What is awareness? Who/what are you? How have you been feeling? What use could an evaluation have?

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Sonofnature
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Re: I want to break free!

Postby Sonofnature » Tue Oct 22, 2024 7:20 am

Close your eyes, listen to the sounds, and smile. Smile, feel the sensations, hear the sounds, and continue to smile.
😁
I don't know. What is awareness? Who/what are you? How have you been feeling? What use could an evaluation have?
I don't know. I don't that either. I have been feeling fine. I can sometimes get activated, but it is seen pretty much right away, sensations are felt, sometimes stories come up, they are seen and fade away pretty quickly with no engagement. There is interest in guiding at some point, so the evaluation would just let me know if there is more to explore.

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ty0
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Re: I want to break free!

Postby ty0 » Tue Oct 22, 2024 9:52 am

Would you like the checkpoint questions for other guides to read and confirm you so you can start guiding? Is there anything else you'd like to explore?


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