Seeker123

[Elad]

Hi Jess, ok, sounds like there is a fair amount of clarity. Also sounds like there is doubt.

Therefore:

1) Stay present and look what is there before conceptual elaborations.

2) Be like a detective for the illusory sense of self. When does it come up, how does it feel, etc. Try to get to experience it as clear and deep as possible. Then check if it is clearly unreal. Keep doing this many times.

We will work with this and maybe other stuff until the doubt is gone.

Last thing. Another guide made me aware you requested a video session with Kento. Please moving forward, if you want to do guiding with others or change your guide, let me know, okay? It can be confusing if you do other things in parallel and I am not informed. Are there more other things you do all ready, beside asking for Kento? I am fine you do a video session with Kento, and after we can talk about how to continue.

Actually, last last: Curious how you narrowed in on Kento specifically?

[Elad]

Actually, try also this exercise:


“I” labelling

Get a sheet of paper and draw a line that divides that sheet in half. Label one half 'self' and the other side 'other'. Sit down and start a timer for 5 minutes. Every time you have a thought make a mark on the sheet. If that thought is about the self put a mark on the self side, if it’s about something else, mark the other side. If a thought about food occurs due to feeling hungry, mark that on the self side. Any thought that refers back to a self should go on the self side. (I'm bored, I'm tired, is the door locked (my safety) that video was funny (I was amused), my back hurts, I am frightened) get it?
Let me know how you go and what you notice.

[Noselfplzthx]

Hi Jess, ok, sounds like there is a fair amount of clarity. Also sounds like there is doubt.

Therefore:

1) Stay present and look what is there before conceptual elaborations.

Ok

2) Be like a detective for the illusory sense of self. When does it come up, how does it feel, etc. Try to get to experience it as clear and deep as possible. Then check if it is clearly unreal. Keep doing this many times.

Comes up with thoughts/memories. That seems to bring up emotions. I can’t find a self but I’ll keep investigating.

We will work with this and maybe other stuff until the doubt is gone.

Last thing. Another guide made me aware you requested a video session with Kento. Please moving forward, if you want to do guiding with others or change your guide, let me know, okay? It can be confusing if you do other things in parallel and I am not informed. Are there more other things you do all ready, beside asking for Kento? I am fine you do a video session with Kento, and after we can talk about how to continue.

I was looking for help in addition not in place of. I don’t need to do a session with them.

Actually, last last: Curious how you narrowed in on Kento specifically?

Clicked one link, intuitive no. Clicked their link, quick yes. No thought behind it.

[Noselfplzthx]

Actually, try also this exercise:


“I” labelling

Get a sheet of paper and draw a line that divides that sheet in half. Label one half 'self' and the other side 'other'. Sit down and start a timer for 5 minutes. Every time you have a thought make a mark on the sheet. If that thought is about the self put a mark on the self side, if it’s about something else, mark the other side. If a thought about food occurs due to feeling hungry, mark that on the self side. Any thought that refers back to a self should go on the self side. (I'm bored, I'm tired, is the door locked (my safety) that video was funny (I was amused), my back hurts, I am frightened) get it?
Let me know how you go and what you notice.

Self: 30+
Other: 30+

Same for each. Thinking about thoughts and the exercise felt like not being present. There are so many thoughts and they’re so amusingly ridiculous. There wasn’t much emotional attachment with these thoughts. Came and passed and next arose.

That’s all I got :/

[Elad]

Jess, good evening

The "I labeling" exercise can be very eye opening, but sounds like not for you right now, just stay in presence and see whats there and what is not there.

"[the sense of self] comes up with thoughts/memories. That seems to bring up emotions. I can’t find a self but I’ll keep investigating."

Good, just keep looking whenever there is any sense of self that comes up. What is it actually that comes up? What feels like a self? Is it in any way a real separate agent/doer/controller/experiencer?

There is a difference between not finding a self and realizing that there is no self. In the second, the doubt drops away and the wish to seek further stops. So we continue until that.

Regarding Kento, all good, just moving forward, let me know if you want to engage with other guides or methods. Otherwise the guiding here becomes less precise. But feel free to see Kento. He is very good and there is no misalignment between the ways we point. I talked with him and we both are open to cooperate so whatever is most helpful for you will be the way.

Last thing, regarding the quote function. Please eyes don't use it and just use quotation marks like me when you quote me. Or use it in a clear way. If you want that, here is a short video on using it: https://youtu.be/-fAToDNh9hQ?si=2H_M4P9xlrA9N8Lf

[Elad]

So same text if I used quote funtion would look like this:



Jess, good evening

The "I labeling" exercise can be very eye opening, but sounds like not for you right now, just stay in presence and see whats there and what is not there.

[the sense of self]

comes up with thoughts/memories. That seems to bring up emotions. I can’t find a self but I’ll keep investigating.

Good, just keep looking whenever there is any sense of self that comes up. What is it actually that comes up? What feels like a self? Is it in any way a real separate agent/doer/controller/experiencer?

There is a difference between not finding a self and realizing that there is no self. In the second, the doubt drops away and the wish to seek further stops. So we continue until that.

Regarding Kento, all good, just moving forward, let me know if you want to engage with other guides or methods. Otherwise the guiding here becomes less precise. But feel free to see Kento. He is very good and there is no misalignment between the ways we point. I talked with him and we both are open to cooperate so whatever is most helpful for you will be the way.

Last thing, regarding the quote function. Please eyes don't use it and just use quotation marks like me when you quote me. Or use it in a clear way. If you want that, here is a short video on using it: https://youtu.be/-fAToDNh9hQ?si=2H_M4P9xlrA9N8Lf

[Noselfplzthx]

Ok thank you. I’d like to work with both of you if possible. Everything else is clear. I’ll continue exploration and I think live conversation make be helpful as this forum feels awkward and confusing. thank you.

[Elad]

Ok thank you. I’d like to work with both of you if possible. Everything else is clear. I’ll continue exploration and I think live conversation make be helpful as this forum feels awkward and confusing. thank you.

All right. Just write me when you have questions. You may also find that once you work live with Kento, it feels more natural to write him too. If that happens just let me know and we will make him your guide. I am good either way, keep it centered on what feels helpful to you.

[Elad]

Last thing for now: Awkwardness, confusion and so forth are good opportunities to see the non-existence of a separate self. There is a tendency to seek enjoyable or harmonious states of mind in this, and that is natural. However, all the unwanted reactions, feelings, thoughts are equally an opportunity to see that there is no controller, that whatever we consider the opbstacle, is not a self and happens without self. Use anything that happens as an opportunity to realize no controller, no doer, not a self.

[Noselfplzthx]

Great! Thank you. Very helpful! I don’t mind awkward and confusing it’s the translating, transcribing it and sharing it that feels really in opposition which I guess is more of the same so… here goes nothing 🙃 Thanks again

[Elad]

That's right, more of the same! Good observing. Until next time.

[Noselfplzthx]

is there another exercise to try? There were a few experiences today that seemed like a shift and it’s clear I can’t control my thoughts or anything. I feel There are a lot of bad habits to break like patterned thinking activity etc. is that part of it? Breaking it I mean or remaining in presence? I know these are silly questions

[Elad]

Good, continue to notice everything unfold by itself, including wishes, habits, needs...

Try this exercise

Introductory Body Exercise

Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes.
Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:
Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume?
In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?
Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing? Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?
Is there an inside or an outside?
If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?
What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to? What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?
Look very carefully, especially with the last question. Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, etc) before replying.


You can answer all questions here but don't have to. Importantly give the answer that shows what is truly seen when doing these explorations.

[Elad]

Also do this one, not necessarily both today. The quality - patient, sincere, respectful of the process and discovery - is more important than quantity.


Mind labelling experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation ie is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example: I am sitting on a chair, I am hearing a clock ticking, I am looking at a computer screen, I am feeling hungry. Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs. For example: sitting on a chair, typing, breathing, blinking, hearing the clock. (Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?
2. What is here without labels?
3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?
4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

[Noselfplzthx]

Thank you. I will continue to revisit wanted to share the first experience

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?
2. What is here without labels?
3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?
4. Did you notice any differences in the body?[/quote]


1. The second one felt more true as it was just pure witnessing experience and presence

2. Just the experiencing just the visual and the sensations

3. Unsure about this, felt like labels made it feel personal and therefore “closer”.

4. First round had things like “my legs are tense”, “my chest is tight”, “my stomach is contracting” “my body relaxed”, “my throat constricts”, “my leg itches”, “my chest is heavy”, “I am crying”, “my chest is expanding”… then the mind came and processed a whole pattern of thinking (programmed beliefs) which I journaled about.

I did that twice with similar experience

The second round was not personal, didn’t feel close, was more present, felt lighter, impersonal, calm, relaxed almost no thoughts or stories

I’ll continue again. Thank you 🙏🏻