Stream Entry

[Alless]

Hello again Nicholas

Or maybe we are like AI and are programmed to say we know… but again, the truth is we know nothing.

Now that's got an authentic ring about it !!
Can you identify a "program" that influences your day to day living?

The world, mom, dad. the doctors.

Really??? How would they know what a doctor is?

BUT without using language. Its just sensations.

That is true. As pointed to in the last post here we are coming from this standpoint "Language itself is a labeling phenomenon and every word but a symbol."



Feel into this ......once you teach a child a label they relate to the "thing" that is labeled by the label not directly to the "thing" itself.
Does that feel true?

Red text that says green.

Yes! BUT you are still going to the mind using the label "text"

No, I’m seeing red! I see the color red,

YES ! That is all that is SEEN in pure seeing. And yes, we acknowledge that words such as color and red are labels but they are the most basic labels we can use to communicate.

The label suggests green but I see red.

Believing the suggestion is the way we are hypnotized into the illusion BUT you see red Beautiful!

Here we have a green with the color red. Or we have a red with the label green?
It depends of whats prioritized.

Yes! We are conditioned to prioitize concepts

red is red, but I tend to associate red with bad. green with good.

Most of us do it seems !! Collective conditioning??

I’m even more confused than before. I think it’s the way my mind works. I’m over-analyzing this and overcomplating it.

As I've said before ....this is good
Tell me what is your instant reaction to reading "this is good". What is the VERY FIRST thought or feeling?

Let’s keep trying please.

I won't stop anytime soon Nicholas !! And please question anything you believe is not true which I sense is your leaning to do already.


So here is the next part ......


Now we are going to take PURE SEEING a step further.


In the light of what has now been seen......... here is a sentence from the Label-Reality Correlation exercise again

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If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’, is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggest?

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As you LOOK at the sentence above and without any reference to thought, what is actually SEEN? What is your Actual Experience here?




Just this simple exercise for today.

[Nicholas]

Can you identify a "program" that influences your day to day living?

I’ve thought about the AI concept a little bit more.
We humans are different from animals because we have self-awareness.

We look at animals and say “ah yeah, they are like computer programs, they are just following instructions”.

“we are different, we are self-aware”

But then… that could be just another piece of the program. An AI can also say “yes I know I’m an AI, I’m self aware”… but just because we programmed her to do that!

And this is the same thing, this self-awareness is just another piece of code. We aren’t that different from an AI actually.

That program of course, influences everything.

The world, mom, dad. the doctors.
Really??? How would they know what a doctor is?

Ah uh, yeah, they don’t know what a doctor yes. crap they don’t even know who they real mother could be. They don’t know anything, no they aren’t labeling yet. What they are doing is associating things. pleasant… and not pleasant.

Feel into this ......once you teach a child a label they relate to the "thing" that is labeled by the label not directly to the "thing" itself.
Does that feel true?

Yep, a label is just a pointer. In programming you have pointers that “point” to a portion of memory.

Now, a pointer can point anywhere, you can change where it points anytime.

When you code, you use these pointers but you are not really touching the memory.

Just like labels and the “real thing”.

In fact I could teach a child wrong labels… and he wouldn’t know.

I’m even more confused than before. I think it’s the way my mind works. I’m over-analyzing this and overcomplating it.
As I've said before ....this is good
Tell me what is your instant reaction to reading "this is good". What is the VERY FIRST thought or feeling?

relief. progress.

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If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’, is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggest?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As you LOOK at the sentence above and without any reference to thought, what is actually SEEN? What is your Actual Experience here?

Oh, now I just see red. if red is replaced with red or red, what changes? nothing. it’s all red.
I stopped seeing labels… what is this? so strange. now my brain is ignoring the text, its just seeing… red and more red.

Hug

[Alless]

Hello Nicholas

In fact I could teach a child wrong labels… and he wouldn’t know.

It's happening all the time and we don't even realize it.

relief. progress.

Indeed ! Let relaxation be. Just watch this all unfold and simply NOTICE.

now my brain is ignoring the text, its just seeing… red and more red.

What DIRECT evidence do you have that the brain is seeing red?




So take a look at the next part Nicholas....we are going to take PURE SEEING a step further.


For ease of reference here is the sentence again


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’, is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggest?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As you LOOK at the sentence above and without any reference to thought, what is actually SEEN?




So, looking at the sentence again what do you actually SEE?

What is directly seen here is red, black and white is it not? It can actually feel like a trick question because while it's such a simple exercise.
Can you see how quickly thoughts can sabotage and hypnotize and create blind spots?



As a side note (and you may have experienced this already) if you show someone the page of any book and ask them what they see, invariably they will say something like words or letters. Rarely does anyone say "I see the white of the page." And yet the white is what takes up most of the page and we could not read the words without it!

And I'll ask you to look again because in fact what we really notice when we are looking at the sentence in this exercise, we also see green (lines delineating the sentence) and also blue (the color of the text in the question) even though we are not focusing on it per say, it is still SEEN.

Now hold your gaze on the sentence again and without moving your eyes or your head.
Are you not also aware of the oranges, greys, blacks of the LU website background behind the white text panel?



Now again without moving your eyes or head let your gaze soften even more and notice your peripheral vision.
Can you see more colors which are part of your computer screen or device and out into the room where you are?



Take a couple of minutes with a soft gaze to simply notice all that is seen in this moment.
How would you describe what you are experiencing? As you let your gaze soften and your eyes de-focus even slightly, what happens to thoughts?



Now let’s remind ourselves what this exploration is all about. It's to look for the “me.”
So right now can any specific thing that we could label the “me” be found?



Now, turn your attention to the SEEING itself as you LOOK.
Can you find a specific place from which SEEING arises?


As you continue to look can you find a “me” that is in control of the SEEING?



Can you choose to stop SEEING?



While what we are LOOKING AT is continually changing does the SEEING ITSELF change in any way?



Going back to the moment when you became conscious of the white background (and then the other colors) which was not noticed till it was pointed out, what changed to bring that realization about?



Was there any figuring out to be done or was it simply SEEING what was there?



So explore the SEEING that is happening with these questions in mind and tell me anything else about your DIRECT EXPERIENCE that you are noticing



Next time you go for a walk practice looking without labeling.
I’d love to hear. What happened?



No need to rush. If you feel you need extra time please just let me know.

And let yourself be curious with all this without trying to figure anything out !!!!


With Love


Alan

[Nicholas]

now my brain is ignoring the text, its just seeing… red and more red.
What DIRECT evidence do you have that the brain is seeing red?

I don’t understand this question.

As you LOOK at the sentence above and without any reference to thought, what is actually SEEN?

black and red letters

Can you see how quickly thoughts can sabotage and hypnotize and create blind spots?

thoughts? or preferences? or automatic actions? we can do automatic actions without any thought.

"What do you see here?" Depends of whats prioritized…

I mean.. I could tell you “I’m seeing my screen”

Now hold your gaze on the sentence again and without moving your eyes or your head.
Are you not also aware of the oranges, greys, blacks of the LU website background behind the white text panel?

context… context is everything.

Can you see more colors which are part of your computer screen or device and out into the room where you are?

yes, I can see my microphone and rubik cube.

Take a couple of minutes with a soft gaze to simply notice all that is seen in this moment.
How would you describe what you are experiencing? As you let your gaze soften and your eyes de-focus even slightly, what happens to thoughts?

Not easy, takes effort. My mind wanders. The music is still on my head.
Mhm, If I just stay there for a while suddenly the words stop making sense and become just… symbols. Weird. I start to see patterns too, for example an “e” is just a backwards “a” things like that. But it makes me tired very fast. I can only do this for like 20 seconds.

this is a interesting experiment, I’m going to do it more often.

Now let’s remind ourselves what this exploration is all about. It's to look for the “me.”
So right now can any specific thing that we could label the “me” be found?

Mhm, it feels weakened. It’s still there. When I ask the question “where is this I” my mind is just “I don’t know bro, what do you want me to tell you? don’t bother me I’m tired of this game”.

I’m not tired though  but looks like my brain doesn’t know what to answer anymore.

Anything we can label as a “me”? I don’t know. I have this “feeling” of being alive. that’s me. Like an energy in the entire body. Mmh, looks like it’s shapeshifting. I guess the brain won’t give up easily.

Now, turn your attention to the SEEING itself as you LOOK.
Can you find a specific place from which SEEING arises?

Yes, something inside my brain, deep. I guess because “seeing” reminds me of “eyes” so the “me” concept still tries to escape around there.

As you continue to look can you find a “me” that is in control of the SEEING?

Yes, I feel this thing inside me. this… “me” that makes choices, controls where to focus attention and so and so.

feels like I’m backtracking here.

Can you choose to stop SEEING?

At this point the word “seeing” lost all meaning. Yeah I can choose to stop seeing. I can just move on with this and focus on something else.

While what we are LOOKING AT is continually changing does the SEEING ITSELF change in any way?

yes, depending on what I focus on.

Going back to the moment when you became conscious of the white background (and then the other colors) which was not noticed till it was pointed out, what changed to bring that realization about?

You just told me “have you noticed…?” and then I noticed the rest of the colors. We changed the context. Instead of a tunnel it became a broad thing. Instead on focusing on “something” it became “just don’t focus on anything in particular” and then everything appears.

Was there any figuring out to be done or was it simply SEEING what was there?

Just seeing what was there, a change in priorities, in focus.

So explore the SEEING that is happening with these questions in mind and tell me anything else about your DIRECT EXPERIENCE that you are noticing

I feel I’ve gone backwards. Like the “me” just grew stronger, or maybe it’s just my mind messing with …”me” or the part of the brain that is trying to “see”.

It feels like I start to get closer… and then the mind just goes “ah no, back off” and throws me away.

Next time you go for a walk practice looking without labeling.
I’d love to hear. What happened?

ok I just did it. it’s hard. it’s like meditation. I can’t stop labeling, I can’t stop thinking. For moments I can just focus on what I see but nothing in particular, but I lose it.

But it feels like… there are no objects actually. It’s just… one image that changes over and over. Hard to explain. There are no concepts or things out there… it’s just… this image that encompasses everything

[Alless]

Nicholas


I'm going to start at the end and work back with some of the points you've made

But it feels like… there are no objects actually. It’s just… one image that changes over and over. Hard to explain. There are no concepts or things out there… it’s just… this image that encompasses everything

Interesting report. Stay with this that you say "there are no objects actually." You use the word image. And yes, there is truth there. There is actually something even more fundamental.
What are ALL images made of?



It feels like I start to get closer… and then the mind just goes “ah no, back off” and throws me away.
Very good.
Can you see this happening or just the outcomes of this happening?



You just told me “have you noticed…?” and then I noticed the rest of the colors. We changed the context. Instead of a tunnel it became a broad thing. Instead on focusing on “something” it became “just don’t focus on anything in particular” and then everything appears.
What gives context?



When you LOOK at whats really happening when you focus....... does the rest of what's in view just disappear or does it SEEM to disappear?

we can do automatic actions without any thought.

When you LOOK DIRECTLY can you find what controls the automatic actions? A controller of any type?

"What do you see here?" Depends of whats prioritized…

What does the prioritizing?

So right now can any specific thing that we could label the “me” be found?

Mhm, it feels weakened. It’s still there. When I ask the question “where is this I” my mind is just “I don’t know bro, what do you want me to tell you? don’t bother me I’m tired of this game”.

.

That's what the mind says.
Tell me what you EXPERIENCE when you LOOK DIRECTLY?

now my brain is ignoring the text, its just seeing… red and more red.
What DIRECT evidence do you have that the brain is seeing red?

I don’t understand this question.

You say its the brain ignoring text.
What is it you SEE, FEEL or HEAR DIRECTLY as you LOOK that tells you it is the BRAIN that is ignoring the text?




Now coming back to what you said earlier

"there are no objects actually."

What you are reporting here is very important.

I'm going to ask you to look at these first questions in the last exercise from the standpoint that there are actually no objects in DIRECT EXPERIENCE and from the standpoint of a young child that has not learned ANY labels or what context is.

For ease of reference here are those questions again


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’, is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggest?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As you LOOK at the sentence above and without any reference to thought, what is actually SEEN?



So, looking at the sentence again what do you actually SEE?

What is directly seen here is red, black and white is it not? It can actually feel like a trick question because while it's such a simple exercise, it can powerfully demonstrate how quickly thoughts can sabotage and hypnotize

As a side note (and you may have experienced this already) if you show someone the page of any book and ask them what they see, invariably they will say something like words or letters. Rarely does anyone say "I see the white of the page." And yet the white is what takes up most of the page and we could not read the words without it!

And I'll ask you to look again because in fact what we really notice when we are looking at the sentence in this exercise, we also see green (lines delineating the sentence) and also blue (the color of the text in the question) even though we are not focusing on it per say, it is still SEEN.

Now hold your gaze on the sentence again and without moving your eyes or your head.
Are you not also aware of the oranges, greys, blacks of the LU website background behind the white text panel?



Now again without moving your eyes or head let your gaze soften even more and notice your peripheral vision.
Can you see more colors which are part of your computer screen or device and out into the room where you are?



Take a couple of minutes with a soft gaze to simply notice all that is seen in this moment.
How would you describe what you are experiencing? As you let your gaze soften and your eyes de-focus even slightly, what happens to thoughts?




As a result of repeating this exercise is there any difference compared to the first time you did it as you LOOK this time without ANY LABELS or invoking THOUGHT?




What is your reaction (emotion or thought) to being asked to repeat this exercise?



Is there any belief here that this is all too simple, a waste of time?




With love


Alan

[Nicholas]

Interesting report. Stay with this that you say "there are no objects actually." You use the word image. And yes, there is truth there. There is actually something even more fundamental.
What are ALL images made of?

all images? but there’s just one. just ONE big image. It’s always the same image with different permutations.
you mean objects? objects as images?

sorry I don’t understand this.

Let’s say you mean objects/concepts/separations as images, for example, one image can split in different images.

It’s all made from… atoms? and then atoms are made of?... we don’t know?

It feels like I start to get closer… and then the mind just goes “ah no, back off” and throws me away.

Very good.
Can you see this happening or just the outcomes of this happening?

Mhm, the outcomes. that’s my interpretation. Maybe the real cause is totally different.

You just told me “have you noticed…?” and then I noticed the rest of the colors. We changed the context. Instead of a tunnel it became a broad thing. Instead on focusing on “something” it became “just don’t focus on anything in particular” and then everything appears.

What gives context?

We set the context all the time. Like that exercise video “pay attention to the ball!” with people playing with the ball. and then a gorilla appears underneath.

The context there was “the ball”.
To change the context of focus we could say “pay attention to everything that happens here”.

We could make it more broad “look at the video but also be aware of everything around you”.

When you LOOK at whats really happening when you focus....... does the rest of what's in view just disappear or does it SEEM to disappear?

it seems to disappear, it’s always there. But I’m not focusing on it. My brain ignores it. My conscious awareness does not pay attention BUT my unconscious is registering everything.

we can do automatic actions without any thought.

When you LOOK DIRECTLY can you find what controls the automatic actions? A controller of any type?

no, automatic actions no! like when a plate is about to fall and you react without thinking or things like that.

but the rest of actions. there is a big fat controller. this BIG FAT controller can say “ah, I will stop writing now” and do it. and then “AH, I will continue writing” and so.

It’s… there in my face.

“but where? where is it?” I don’t know, I can’t point it exactly, it’s like a concept but it is still there.
yesterday I was reading “liberation unleashed” (I’m aware that we can keep doing practices but only if they relate to LU right?) and then I read this “ME is just a label” and yes it is true, it’s a label but still it is pointing to something here, like I mentioned before… this “sensation” of being alive. this energy. this concept, this me.

"What do you see here?" Depends of whats prioritized…

What does the prioritizing?

Same as before, depending on context. We do the prioritizing and the brain follows.
If we are on the jungle I’m going to be paying attention to dangerous animals, I’m not going to be all relaxed looking and things and “oooh so beautiful”. I mean yeah I can do both but the focus will be on alertness.

So right now can any specific thing that we could label the “me” be found?

Mhm, it feels weakened. It’s still there. When I ask the question “where is this I” my mind is just “I don’t know bro, what do you want me to tell you? don’t bother me I’m tired of this game”.
.

That's what the mind says.
Tell me what you EXPERIENCE when you LOOK DIRECTLY?

Like I said before, right now this “me” is this controller of INTENTIONAL actions, of conscious actions. this stream of energy in the entire body, this camera placed behind my eyes, on my brain, that I use to FOCUS on different things… on the different senses.

It also feels like this ME instead of retreating is just growing bigger and bigger saying “YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GET RID OF ME, I’M GOING TO EXPAND EVERYWHERE”.

So I try to think, mhm, these are just mind tricks, what if there’s no ME at all?
But… I don’t believe it.

What DIRECT evidence do you have that the brain is seeing red?

I don’t understand this question.

You say its the brain ignoring text.
What is it you SEE, FEEL or HEAR DIRECTLY as you LOOK that tells you it is the BRAIN that is ignoring the text?

hahaha I’m going crazy here. Mhm, no see, no feel and no hear. I just know because I have this knowledge that it is the brain that filters things. Mhm. Yeah because I’ve been taught that. What’s exactly the point here? I’m sure you are pointing to something here but I cannot… see it.

As you LOOK at the sentence above and without any reference to thought, what is actually SEEN?

Uh there’s an issue here. If I’m a baby that understands no concepts no labels and no reference to thoughts… I won’t be able to see a sentence there. what’s a sentence??

I end up just seeing… lots and lots and lots of tiny points. colors everywhere. I can’t focus on a sentence but I can focus on one point in my vision.

I see this IMAGE.

The rest of the questions it’s all the same. I’m aware of everything because I see everything, but I cannot understand the labels/concepts you tell me to discern because it’s all just points and colors to me.

What is your reaction (emotion or thought) to being asked to repeat this exercise?

“again??”

but then “uh but that’s ok, this is how this thing works. It’s… pretty amazing actually”.
It is the same exercise but it can be done in different ways with different focus, context and state of mind. Like being more and more and more aware.

Is there any belief here that this is all too simple, a waste of time?

no. THIS IS NOT SIMPLE AT ALL. this feels like… I don’t know. I can’t compare it to anything.
if it were a waste of time I wouldn’t be here.

It feels like trying to see a new color. “but there are no colors” wait what?

something like that. It also feels too abstract. Like… dealing with concepts on top of concepts. But then there actually no concepts… aaah. It’s a bit frustrating but I don’t care, I will eventually “see”.

Abrazo (hug in spanish)

[Alless]

Hello Nicholas

Abrazo (hug in spanish)

I got it - thank you ! I'm suspecting that Spanish is your first language and if that is the case I wish I could speak Spanish like you can speak English !


What is being pointed to here in the last couple of posts is that in PURE SEEING all that is SEEN is colour ( and yes even that is a label but the most basic label / symbol we can use to communicate)

You have used the word "image" to describe seeing. It may seem pedantic to insist on the word colour however it does inherently point to the "basicness" that is at the heart of this aspect of experiencing. Typically we would say that all images are made of colour.

Look at this picture as we take a really close look at what is going on with SEEING



When looking at this picture, thought automatically divides colour into colours and then names colour as specific objects.

IGNORE ALL object, image and colour labels or interpretations as you JUST LOOK at this picture:-
Are there many colourS or just colour?



What tells you there are many different colours?



Is there a gap between the ‘objects’ - the cobblestones or the buildings for instance ?



Is there a dividing line between ANY object?



Where does colour begin and end?



Does any shape exist without colour or any colour exist without shape?



Is SEEING possible without colour?



Can anything be found in PURE SEEING other than colour?



Is there a seer separate from that which is seen?



Is there any place you can find where a seer ends and the colour starts?



In DIRECT EXPERIENCE is there any difference between ”colour” and “seeing”? Are those two labels interchangeable?



With love


Alan

[Nicholas]

I got it - thank you ! I'm suspecting that Spanish is your first language and if that is the case I wish I could speak Spanish like you can speak English !

hehe, thanks!

Are there many colourS or just colour?

Uugh. It’s hard not to see several colors.

What tells you there are many different colours?

I don’t know, colors are very different from each other. blue is so different from white. I don’t need any thoughts or label, visually they are so distinct from each other.

Is there a gap between the ‘objects’ - the cobblestones or the buildings for instance ?

yes, big gap between everything

Is there a dividing line between ANY object?

yes, mostly visible when seeing a building in front of the blue sky

Where does colour begin and end?

I could answer this question by repeating the exact same words you are using, but without the “?”.
I don’t know, it’s my brain that recognizes different colors and separates them and says “here starts, here ends”

Does any shape exist without colour or any colour exist without shape?

a glass. does a glass have any color? nop.
color without shape? the ocean. does the ocean have any recognizable shape?

Not trying to be witty here, it’s literally the first thing that comes to mind.

Is SEEING possible without colour?

No. What if everything became invisible? I can’t imagine it. I can’t “see” it.

Can anything be found in PURE SEEING other than colour?

Uhh no, nothing exists outside of color.

Is there a seer separate from that which is seen?

Yes.

Is there any place you can find where a seer ends and the colour starts?

Ah, this question is amazing.
All of these questions feel like koans. koan after koan after koan hahaha this is incredible.

If I close my eyes I create a distance between me and the colors out there.
But then I see black, but I recognice that black is from my eyelids so there is still a distance.

I see that I’m answering all of these questions quite literally, maybe because I’m a coder/programmer/logical thinker. Just analyzing a bit of my behaviour here, nothing else.

In DIRECT EXPERIENCE is there any difference between ”colour” and “seeing”? Are those two labels interchangeable?

seeing is the action. color is the object. If there is no seeing, where are the colors?
Mmhm.

I know there’s something here but… I cannot grasp it.

I know that all of these questions look “dumb or simple” from afar. But I’m totally aware that they are specially designed to see the obvious. (of course, it’s not obvious when you are asleep!)

[Alless]

Hello Nicholas


I had started to answer some of your responses however let's come at it this way.


And before we go on Nicholas some conditions which affect a person sight such as aphantasia or colour blindness can influence the way SEEING is experienced so please tell me if there is anything in this regard that you want me to be aware of ?


Please remember we are looking at only SEEING here. You are being asked to attend to SEEING only. You are not being asked to report your experience of any of the other senses - hearing, tasting, smelling, feeling or THINKING

Here is the picture again ........



Is there anywhere on this picture there is NO color?



Would a baby see anything else other than color if this was held in front of its face?



Would a baby know that there were lines or shapes or just see color?





Is there any part of this character Bart that is shown here that is not color?



Would a very young baby beginning to open their eyes and seeing for the first time, see anything else other than color if this was held in front of their face?



Would a baby have any clue that this picture had any resemblance to a person?






Is there any part of this black and white image that is not pure color?



Now stop and take in what you are looking at right now.
Is there anywhere where there is not color?



When you next go for a walk can you see anything or anywhere where there is not color?



Throughout the next 24 hours please look at whatever you are seeing.
Is there anything or anywhere that you SEE that is not color?



When you look is there any absence of color irrespective of where you look?



Is it clear that seeing cannot be experienced independent of color and color cannot be experienced independent of seeing?



With love


Alan

[Nicholas]

And before we go on Nicholas some conditions which affect a person sight such as aphantasia or colour blindness can influence the way SEEING is experienced so please tell me if there is anything in this regard that you want me to be aware of ?

no, nothing!

Is there anywhere on this picture there is NO color?

no

Would a baby see anything else other than color if this was held in front of its face?

mmmh, no

Would a baby know that there were lines or shapes or just see color?

mhm, only colors. But I guess the baby would see different colors even without knowing their name.

Is there any part of this character Bart that is shown here that is not color?

no

Would a very young baby beginning to open their eyes and seeing for the first time, see anything else other than color if this was held in front of their face?

no

Would a baby have any clue that this picture had any resemblance to a person?

no

Is there any part of this black and white image that is not pure color?

no

Now stop and take in what you are looking at right now.
Is there anywhere where there is not color?

mmhm, everything has color

When you next go for a walk can you see anything or anywhere where there is not color?

mmhm, no don’t think so

Throughout the next 24 hours please look at whatever you are seeing.
Is there anything or anywhere that you SEE that is not color?

I was going to say “air” but… I can’t see air. so… no color. everything that I “see” has color.

When you look is there any absence of color irrespective of where you look?

mhm… I think it is not possible to see the absence of color.

Is it clear that seeing cannot be experienced independent of color and color cannot be experienced independent of seeing?

mmmh… yes I see it.

abrazo

[Alless]

Beautiful Nicholas

What you report here to have been directly experienced is PURE SEEING, UNCONDITIONED SEEING.You do say "I think" a couple of times which tends indicate you went to mind at that point to find an answer. But other than that what you describe is direct experience.

There is no interpretation, no mental overlay just "what is" as far as seeing is concerned. You are reporting what is literal, not abstract but reporting what is actual.

Whilst this experience of pure seeing can take one so much deeper as we give ourselves to it, significant deepening of seeing in and of itself is not what we are going to attend to in this investigation.

Seeing clearly (to the extent we will take it in this investigation) is fundamental to this exploration of the illusion of "me" and we will attend to the fundamental direct experience of the other senses as well.

Is it clear that seeing cannot be experienced independent of color and color cannot be experienced independent of seeing?

mmmh… yes I see it.

I find myself wondering if the "mmmh" is the mind struggling with what is seen which is different from what it believes. Is this what the mmmh indicates or is it something different?



We are now going to push the boundaries of the limited mind somewhat further.

We know that words are symbols - just sounds required for verbal communication or certain marks on a page which we interpret. The mind interprets them in a particular way and typically "rises up" to "object" if it feels that its interpretation (BELIEF) is being challenged. This is often the source of what we commonly call resistance to "what is"

So as you LOOK at your DIRECT EXPERIENCE of what is being asked in the next questions watch how the mind might rise up and try yo defend what it THINKS is true.

Now ..... you have reported from YOUR OWN DIRECT EXPERIENCE that it is clear that seeing cannot be experienced independent of color and color cannot be experienced independent of seeing.That being the case ...
Is there any actual difference between what is pointed to as "color" and what is pointed to as"seeing"?




Are the word symbols used for what we label "color" and what we label "seeing" actually pointing to what is identical in experience?




Now from DIRECT EXPERIENCE we are going to prove whether or not there is a seer and what is seen as separate entities or separate definable objects.


Soften your gaze and notice your total field of vision. All you see is color. In the AE of seeing there is only colors. Right?

Choose any particular part or shape or "object" in your field of vision and focus on that.

Now move your attention “back” to where you believe you are seeing from. Continue to move your attention to and fro between what you sense as the source of seeing and the chosen object. Please do this a number of times

In moving your attention to and fro does your attention cross any boundary at all?




SLOW THIS RIGHT DOWN.

Is there ANY division between what is seen and what thought tells you is the seer?



Is there anywhere a so called "seer" starts or ends and the object which is seen starts or ends?



Can you in any way stop this experiencing of seeing?



Sure, the colors in the field of vision change, but does the ACTUAL SEEING itself change in any way?




Tell me, without ANY labeling or interpretation of the mind overlaying your experience can you find any DIVISION, ANY GAP, ANY BOUNDARY, ANY SEPARATION IN YOUR ACTUAL SEEING EXPERIENCE at all?



As you move your attention back and forward is there ANYTHING that interrupts that movement?



Please do this a number of times throughout the day in different situations. What do you find?.



Is there anything else you notice in your ACTUAL EXPERIENCE of SEEING that you would like to report?



Hint: Be really curious as you LOOK and just report what you find rather than trying to find ANY intellectual rational or answer.



With love


Alan

[Nicholas]

I find myself wondering if the "mmmh" is the mind struggling with what is seen which is different from what it believes. Is this what the mmmh indicates or is it something different?

it indicates that I’m processing these things. If there is no color there is no seeing. Without seeing there is no color. It takes me a while to assimilate these things.

Now ..... you have reported from YOUR OWN DIRECT EXPERIENCE that it is clear that seeing cannot be experienced independent of color and color cannot be experienced independent of seeing.That being the case ...
Is there any actual difference between what is pointed to as "color" and what is pointed to as"seeing"?

no. No color = no seeing. no seeing = no color.
what does seeing refer? to color.
what does color refer? to seeing.

Are the word symbols used for what we label "color" and what we label "seeing" actually pointing to what is identical in experience?

definite yes. you can’t have one without the other.

In moving your attention to and fro does your attention cross any boundary at all?

ah, I don’t understand this question! what boundary are we talking about?
I will tell you how it feels. I soften my gaze. I focus on an object without moving my eyes, attention is on peripheral vision. I actually have to switch between 3 objects, don’t know why, feels more stronger that way. then I focus on the “seer”… and… visually I’m not focusing on anything, like when you are lost in thought. but “mentally” feels like I’m moving something, on my head. it’s so weird. it’s subtle.

It’s also HARD to do, like I need a lot concentration and I lost it all the time, like it’s an unused muscle or function or something.

It feels weird, when I focus on the seer I just feel I’m focusing on what I’m looking… but not really.

Sorry, trying to make this clear. Just saying my thoughts out loud.

Is there ANY division between what is seen and what thought tells you is the seer?

It feels like I can’t see the seer, like “I’m not allowed” and I hit some kind of a wall. It feels like I’m imagining that I’m looking inward. IMAGINING. A thought.

I’m doing this over and over with each question, several times.

Is there anywhere a so called "seer" starts or ends and the object which is seen starts or ends?

I can’t access the “seer”. When I try to, my mind is just “uuuuhhhhh how do I do that?”
When I try focusing my attention on the seer, I just stop focusing on what I seeing but I’m not focusing on anything.

(so is this proof that there is no seer?)

yeah, It could be… but if feels more like he’s there but I can’t see him.
like… I see In 2D but this “seer” is on 3D.

he’s in another dimension.

Can you in any way stop this experiencing of seeing?

No, the same applies to all senses.

Sure, the colors in the field of vision change, but does the ACTUAL SEEING itself change in any way?

this is like the thing I told you before… it’s always one image, the same, with different permutations.

but also, this question doesn’t make too much sense. does the actual seeing itself change?
change to what? how can seeing change? seeing is seeing.

I’m trying to avoid intellectualizing.

if I had to answer by my gut, I would say no. It doesn’t change.

Tell me, without ANY labeling or interpretation of the mind overlaying your experience can you find any DIVISION, ANY GAP, ANY BOUNDARY, ANY SEPARATION IN YOUR ACTUAL SEEING EXPERIENCE at all?

the colors, the different colors suggest boundaries.

but also… sometimes it looks like a painting, a painting is ONE thing. so, for a brief moment it just feels like it’s all ONE THING.

As you move your attention back and forward is there ANYTHING that interrupts that movement?

There’s a… wall like I said before.
It feels like trying to see something but being unable to.

I can’t look inwards.

But is not exactly looking, it’s just moving the attention, the focus.

When I order my mind to focus on the seer it freezes. it does nothing. doesn’t know where to focus so she just stays there.

Please do this a number of times throughout the day in different situations. What do you find?.

Feels like trying to imagine a new color, over and over.

Is there anything else you notice in your ACTUAL EXPERIENCE of SEEING that you would like to report?

when I try to focus on the seer… my vision focus goes to nowhere.
my mind does a little movement
and then I start to feel my mouth, eyes, head…

[Alless]

Hello Nicholas

I might jump around a little with the responses to you post.

I’m trying to avoid intellectualizing.

I can feel that you are getting caught up in it less. Good work !

No color = no seeing

Yes ! And seeing /color just is, it never can not be.

definite yes. you can’t have one without the other.

Indeed !

what boundary are we talking about?

Boundaries within SEEING itself. In fact you've answered this yourself down further.....

but also… sometimes it looks like a painting, a painting is ONE thing. so, for a brief moment it just feels like it’s all ONE THING.

That's a good metaphor ! There are no boundaries between objects on a painting. The brief moment you refer to is the moment you are seeing BEFORE the mind kicks in. It is incredibly fast the way the mind comes in to make "sense" of what is seen so that we can navigate this conventional way of living. So this is a wonderful example of the fact that we are not trying to get rid of anything. We are simply discovering what is ACTUALLY happening in experience.


In one quote you refer to the seer as "he" and in another as "she" ! HAHA 😊

the different colors suggest boundaries.

Beautiful ! And where does the suggestion of boundaries arise from? Thoughts or the mind of course. But there is just color

When I order my mind to focus on the seer it freezes. it does nothing. doesn’t know where to focus so she just stays there.

Glorious ! It doesn't know what to do ! This which you are investigating is beyond mind.

if I had to answer by my gut, I would say no. It doesn’t change.

The gut, the intuition, inner guidance - however we label this - is so important !

when I try to focus on the seer… my vision focus goes to nowhere.

Great ! Just keep noticing what you find when you look for the seer. The mind gets so frustrated when something that is believed to exist cannot actually be found.

my mind does a little movement
and then I start to feel my mouth, eyes, head…

We'll get to this matter of the body soon.

Sorry, trying to make this clear. Just saying my thoughts out loud.

Keep doing this ! Its very helpful for me.

I can’t look inwards.

But is not exactly looking, it’s just moving the attention, the focus.

We'll take this inwards and outwards a little further.......

Choose an object out in your field of vision.

Now while you are holding a soft gaze imagine a bright red watermelon in your mind. Got it.?

Now move your attention between the object just chosen and the imagined watermelon. Continue to move your attention between the two.

Does your attention actually cross ANY BOUNDARY between what is typically considered to be inwards ( the Imagined watermelon) and the object "out there"?



Now move your attention between the watermelon, the chosen object in the field of vision AND SEEING ITSELF.


Tell me, without ANY labeling or interpretation of the mind overlaying your experience can you find any DIVISION, ANY GAP, ANY BOUNDARY, ANY SEPARATION IN YOUR ACTUAL SEEING EXPERIENCE at all?



As you move your attention back and forward is there ANYTHING that tells you where any notion of a line between inside and outside might be that your attention has to cross?




Is there anything else you notice in your ACTUAL EXPERIENCE of SEEING about the phenomenon of imagined watermelon, the field of vision and the reality of SEEING? [/color]



Again: Be really curious as you LOOK rather than trying to find an answer in thought.


With love


Alan

[Nicholas]

Alan, I'm still working on this. I'm on the last question writing my experience, I want to rest a bit and try more tomorrow and see if I find something different!

hug

[Alless]

Glad to see you're working on it rather than thinking about it Nicholas !

abrazo !!