Looking for Guidance with the Fetters

[Anastacia42]

Oops! You already did Palm Flipping. ( This is what I get for doing these on my phone.)

We have some "final" questions period would you like to try those now?

Loving,

[tdwicksy]

No problem :) excited that there's still more to discover!

I already did this exercise earlier in our discussion, would you like me to do it again?

[tdwicksy]

Ah we're replying at the same time :)

We have some "final" questions period would you like to try those now?

I would love to!

[Anastacia42]

Okay...



1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Loving,

[tdwicksy]

Hi Stacy,

Thanks for these questions, I'm in the hospital today visiting my uncle but will go through and answer these when I'm able to.

[Anastacia42]

That's fine, Tom.

Loving,

[tdwicksy]

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No there isn’t, there never was. There definitely seemed to be for a long time, however this was apparently a mind-created illusion.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion feels like an energetic assumption. From my own experience I have no idea when it starts, certainly from my own memories it has always seemed to be present. The mind assumes that events happening in the world relate back to an individual that must be present. Why it does this I have no idea, but my guess would be as a form of protection for the biological entity that seems to be present. There seems to be some level of ‘identification’ with thoughts that refer to a ‘me’. These thoughts also carry a sense of ‘me’ in them as well, although this is subtle. How this identification happens I have no idea, as there isn’t anyone to identify with thoughts. It seems to be that the attention which spontaneously moves to things of interest that are available in awareness primarily moves to thoughts as they randomly arise, there is then some mechanism by which the thoughts themselves decide that there is a person here somewhere, and this is such a deeply held assumption that it is never questioned. Whilst this is all going on the ‘awareness’ that is here just is, it always has been present and always will be present, and doesn’t seem to mind much either way whether there is a ‘self’ or not. Despite the fact that awareness doesn’t seem to mind much, the body definitely does seem to mind and seems to energetically hold on to things that have happened to the apparent ‘me’.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It feels incredibly relaxing. I feel there has been an ‘untangling’ of some kind. The thoughts are still desperately trying to grasp on to this new understanding, trying to make sense of it, and there still seems to be some level of automatic ‘identification’ happening, or at least a forgetting of the fact that there isn’t anyone here. This can certainly feel confusing when trying to make sense of it conceptually, however the felt sense of it feels very simple. When there is a movement away from mind into the body, things seem simple and relaxing.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Not 100% sure what you mean by this. The final ‘untangling’ seemed to happen when there was the realisation that fear wasn’t needed because nothing was going to actually change. The ego never had to die because it never existed in the first place, it was just the story of the ego that seemed to come to an end.

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Decisions just seem to happen. There is still some movements of the mind going on that input into decisions ‘what shall I write back to Stacy later?’, ‘what do I need to do at work this morning?’ that kind of thing, however it is not clear where the thoughts that precipitate these decisions come from.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

There still seems to be a strong intention to explore awakening and its implications here. I don’t know where this intention is coming from, because it’s clear that there isn’t a Tom here who can have an intention, however it does still feel a bit like ‘my’ intention.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Logically there can’t be any free will, because whose will exactly would be free? There is somehow still a feeling of being able to decide things though, although there is an understanding that these thoughts and feeling arise completely spontaneously, so that feeling is presumably part of the illusion.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Again, choices just seem to happen. Choosing what to write here for instance, seems to involve some level of thinking about what I’m going to write, and then fingers typing on the keyboard and writing appearing. There is kind of a feeling of choosing what to write, but this feeling is also seen to just be appearing.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What control? Who would be in control? Again, I have to be completely honest and say that there is still some sense of there being some level of control, but when this is looked at directly it is seen to be illusory.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

I have no idea.

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

This question doesn’t seem to make much sense. The Tom that appears in thoughts has all sorts of responsibilities, but he is now clearly seen as an illusion, so I’m not sure how to answer this.

6) Anything to add?

When this is thought through, it can feel confusing and disorienting. Having to answer these questions got the mind quite worked up, trying to conceptually tackle all of the implications of what this means. Who is thinking about answering these questions? How does this work??

When things are felt in the body though it feels very simple, things are just happening, the sense of relaxation is profound. Still very much settling into this new shift.

The shift simultaneously feels completely profound, whilst also being quite subtle. There is a sense that the mind hasn’t really caught up with the new understanding yet.

[Anastacia42]

Very good. Yes, this back & forth is all very normal.

You might want to watch these:

Watch this, please:

https://youtu.be/vJQcD588g2w

and

https://youtu.be/PUDzrCLlrj4


Also, here's a pointer on "body. "


Introductory Body Exercise

Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes. Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:

Can it be known how tall the body is? Does the body have a weight or volume? In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing? Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly? If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to? What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

Look very carefully, especially with the last question. Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, etc) before replying.

See if that helps.

Your answers to the above will be shared with other guides, who may have questions.

Loving,

[tdwicksy]

Can it be known how tall the body is? Does the body have a weight or volume? In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

No, there is no reference point to judge tallness. No real indication of weight or volume. There is a subtle sense of heaviness, but this doesn’t necessarily equate to weight. The body is actually formless.

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing? Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

No. When you look closely and ignore the mind there is just the direct sensation of the clothing, of the chair, there is no separation between the sensation of the body and the chair or the clothes.

Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly? If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

I can’t find an inside or an outside, in direct experience this distinction doesn’t make any sense.

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to? What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

The closest I can come to saying what it refers to is a formless, boundaryless field of constantly changing sensations.

[Anastacia42]

Yes, that is pretty much it.

Much love,

[Anastacia42]

So, now you probably want to continue with the other fetters, which you need to do elsewhere. I recommend Pernille Damore. She has a video channel. I don't think Kevin Shinilac is taking clients, though he probably has videos. Same for Christine Michelberger.

There is also the Fetter Free group on Facebook, which is hidden and you have to be invited, but I can do that (or did we already?)

No one had questions about your answers, so we are complete here.

Much love,

[tdwicksy]

Wow, thanks so much Stacy. This has been a really incredible exploration, I'm super super grateful for your time in guiding me. Thank you.

I am already part of the fetter facebook group and have been to one of the meetings, I'm also slowly making my way through Pernille's videos so got all of that to explore as well.

For now though, think I will just sit and exist for a while :) it's pretty nice isn't it?

Much love
Tom

[Anastacia42]

You are welcome. Yes, too good not to share, right?

Loving,