Looking for others on this path

[KarenM]

Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

Neither one is true or untrue apart from the fact that I am not doing anything, rather things are being done by themselves.

What is here without labels?

Just the experience without the attached story of meaning or ownership.

Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

Labels don't change the experience itself. Labels reinforce the fiction of the self and that there is someone controlling the experience.

Did you notice any differences in the body?

There seems to be this dissociation when the "I" is dropped. Like not being in the body but just noting what it is doing. Sensation, sounds, images. A million experiences are happening at once and moment to moment a new experience is there, the experience being written down, only one thing noted at a time, but aware of all the things not noticed.

[Anastacia42]

Okay, mostly good.

Let's learn about truth & lies.

Here is how to distinguish truth from lies.


We often lie every day & don't realize it.

For example, the grocery clerk asks, "How are you?" You reply, "I'm fine." While, yes. there is a sense in which we are always fine, even in the middle of suffering, at that moment, you were grieving the death of your dog, you had a slight sore throat & you had a headache, but you didn't feel like sharing all of that with the grocery clerk, so you lied, "I'm fine."

Also, it matters none at all how "distant" the remembered lie is. Besides the fact that time itself is fictional, a kind if lie, as we recall the lie it becomes present in this moment, as if it were happening now. This brings the body Sensation that accompanies lying.

Lies can be intentional or unintentional, conscious or unconscious, even so automatic that we ourselves are fooled.

The story of a separate "self" is a lie.

This is the lie you came here to see through. Therefore, it is helpful to notice the body Sensation of lying as one of the tools for finding the truth of no self.

You want to be in touch with body Sensations & able to clearly express them in words. This will help.

Lies are usually felt in the heart or solar plexus as a contraction that we may label as tight, heavy or tense.

In contrast, truth is usually expansive. We may call it loose, light or relaxed.

First, can you remember a time when you lied to someone you loved?

Here we count anything, lies we think of as "big" or "small" that "matter" or don't "matter."

How are you? I'm fine. No, your knee hurts, but you don't feel like discussing it with the grocery clerk.

It's a lie. A seemingly "bigger" one will work better for this exercise.

Find the lie. I don't need the whole story, just a few key words to refer to it.

Then scan your body for any Sensation (DE or Direct Experience), particularly in the gut or maybe the heart. Check very closely.

What is found?

If you think the memory you used wasn't clear enough, find another one or lie to yourself right now, make something up.

1 + 1 = 14 is a lie.

I love eating worms is (probably) a lie.

Or call up a video of a lying politician & notice what Sensations arise as you listen.

I will give you a clue: it is not that peaceful Sensation you felt before when you omitted "I." (refers to an exercise I gave before this one)

Please report back with what body Sensations (not interpretations) you feel. Bodies can feel hot or cold, heavy or light, contraction or expansion, etc.

"Peaceful" is an interpretation of a body Sensation, not the Sensation itself, for example.

Do you see that?

Loving,

[KarenM]

What is found?

No clear memories of outright lying to anyone (lately), so instead thought of witnessing husband lie to his daughter about the reasons for a recent business trip so as not to concern her. Also tried saying things aloud that are not true.

Burning/hot sensation noted in the heartspace.
Tension along the back of the neck.
Nervous energy/sensation of blockage in the stomach.
Pressure between the ears.
Constriction in the back of the mouth/throat.

Is dread an interpretation or a sensation? Probably more an interpretation. Trying to pinpoint which sensations are behind that. Hopefully the above descriptions suffice.

[Anastacia42]

Yes, "dread" is definitely a label, a story.

Scan particularly at the solar plexus.

Lies are felt as tightness, heaviness, a contraction.
Truth is felt as relaxation, lightness, an expansion.

Look for those Sensations when checking a lie. Can you find them?

Much love,

[KarenM]

Can you find them?

Yes, the differences in the physical feeling is noted. Truth in particular is very much sensed in this body. Relaxation, relief, expansion, openness, a release, all noted. More so than lies, but will keep checking for them. Are you recommending a vigilant noting of sensations actively throughout the day as part of this exercise? Like a moment to moment body scan, rather than a lying down for 10 minutes to do this?

Thanks,
Karen

[Anastacia42]

Are you recommending a vigilant noting of sensations actively throughout the day as part of this exercise?

No. That's stressful. Just recognize them when they arise.

Or, if you find yourself uncertain about what's tre - check.


Actual/Direct Experience - Apple

Have a look at an apple (or any fruit you like.) If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise. Google for a picture of an apple.



When looking at an apple, there's color; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure? Color is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought.

Actual experience is sound, thought, color, smell, taste, sensation and the fact of thought arising, but not its content.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by "looking in actual experience." What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labeled ‘apple’ is known
Color labeled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labeled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labeled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known

However, is an apple actually known?

Have fun and let me know what you find out.

[Anastacia42]

Also, it would be good if you'd make it to some of these meetings.

Next event coming up on the 3rd of March.
Welcome to join in. Email to admin@ilonaciunaite.com for the link or use the one you have already.


We have a couple of support groups that are meeting via teleconference and I'll give you the information on that.

There are 3 meetings.

Vince Shubert runs one on the weekends. Write to vinceschubert@gmail.com for the link & schedule.

Luchana & Lubo run one on Thursdays. Write to Luchana at luchanauzunova@gmail.com

Ilona holds a monthly meeting. Write admin@ilonaciunaite.com for that link & schedule

Loving

[KarenM]

However, is an apple actually known?

Have fun and let me know what you find out.

A ha! There is no apple! There are only ways the apple can be experienced with the senses, through feel, taste, appearance and the thought of an apple, but the word "apple" is just a concept, it can't be known as it really is as a whole apart from its label or each sensory experience. Those things aren't really the "apple". It's unknowable.

Still trying to note moments of lying as they happen - will continue. Might try lying more. ;-)

And thank you for the information on the Zoom calls, I did write to them previously and am getting the emails now, but haven't been able to attend given the time zone difference. I did get the recording of one of them and listened to a bit. March 3 I am traveling in Florida but will try to catch the next one with Ilona.

Thank you!
Karen

[Anastacia42]

Good.

"Self" is just like "apple."

Can you find "self" in Direct Experience?

Loving

[KarenM]

Can you find "self" in Direct Experience?

No, "self" is a concept and can never be known or experienced as itself.

[Anastacia42]

How does it FEEL to seeowing,

Loving,

[KarenM]

Can you clarify the word seeowing?

[Anastacia42]

Good grief! I'm on my phone.

SEEING

[Anastacia42]

So, the question was:

How does it FEEL to SEE this (that there's no separate "self" in DE, like no "apple?")

[KarenM]

Haha, no worries!


It feels relaxed, light, relieving, open, and expanded.