The Gate

Remember that we’re looking for some kind of function, a something, an ‘I’ which is doing the ‘choosing’.
In step 1 when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities? Or did they kind of appear by themselves?

I guess they just kind of pop up on their own

If some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’ these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves?

Again, the preferences just kind of show up

In step 2 when you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event? Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting?

Gave way. This is all getting pretty weird. Now I have an inkling why so many of the nondual people I like listen to are often saying something like, “Everything is just happening.”

Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’?

No direct experience

Have you seen this function in action?

No

Very clear all of this. And it's normal for it to get weird as seeing is happening. Just embrace lovingly whatever comes up. Share about it here if you want.

Now do the following exercises:

1. Shift between letting the arm be still and move. Several times and pay close attention.
Where does the "decision", the "command" to move or stop come from? What makes the arm move? Does a ‘you’ or a thought command the body, can you find that in direct experience?

2. Can you choose to fall asleep? Can you find the moment / point / spot or realm where you choose to fall asleep?

3. Can you choose the very content of the next thought? Can you choose willingly the next thought that will arise?

4. Can you choose the very quality (tightness, openness, vibration, hardness, contraction etc) of the physical sensation, that will arise next?

5. Can you choose the next emotion, mind state, attitude that will arise? Sit and look at what is happening. Can you find any choice - point where you willingly chose any emotion that appeared in response to a stimulus?

6. Think of a number between 1 and 20. Try to notice the exact point when the choice is made. Did you know what number would be chosen before it appeared?

1. Shift between letting the arm be still and move. Several times and pay close attention.
Where does the "decision", the "command" to move or stop come from?

It isn’t clear; it can not be found in direct experience.

What makes the arm move?

I am unable to find that answer.

Does a ‘you’ or a thought command the body, can you find that in direct experience?

No. In fact, any thought command seems to lag behind, so it's more like a narrator.

2. Can you choose to fall asleep?

I wish! I often have difficulty falling asleep.

Can you find the moment / point / spot or realm where you choose to fall asleep?

No

3. Can you choose the very content of the next thought?

No. It's one of the reasons I am not a meditator.

Can you choose willingly the next thought that will arise?

No.

4. Can you choose the very quality (tightness, openness, vibration, hardness, contraction etc) of the physical sensation, that will arise next?

No

5. Can you choose the next emotion, mind state, attitude that will arise?

Again, I wish!

Sit and look at what is happening. Can you find any choice - point where you willingly chose any emotion that appeared in response to a stimulus?

The idea of choosing is being exposed as a myth.

6. Think of a number between 1 and 20. Try to notice the exact point when the choice is made. Did you know what number would be chosen before it appeared?

No. The number just “came.”

Great, again lots of clarity here. Now in continuation:


Close your eyes and sit quietly for 10-15 minutes. Watch what focus does. Focus on focussing, watch attention itself. Do you move it? Or it moves by itself? What moves attention? Is thinking in control of attention? Describe what you see.

Stream Exercise

Imagine for a moment a scene, one of a little mountain stream which is tumbling down a hillside gully, not far from its source. It has been raining and so the level is quite high. Consider in your mind's eye, if you can, how it flows to the right over a little rock (where, had the level been lower, it would probably have gone around the rock), then the flow goes to the left over a tree bow, and then slows a little in a broader place, before splashing over a small cascade into a pool, and so on down the mountain side. Does it choose any of its directions? Is it even really a separate entity different from the water deposited in it, the rocks, the depressions in the ground etc? Is it even the same entity moment by moment, or more the product of weather conditions and water, like an ever-changing pattern?

1. Can you find anywhere where 'insert name' autonomously intervenes into life, choosing something that is not the product of all the elements; that is not a part of the overall flow?

2. Now please consider a regular decision made eg; what to wear in the morning, or what to eat for lunch, and describe to me what happens. There are environmental factors, there are colour preferences (but where did those come from - any autonomous intervention there perhaps?), practical issues (such as what is available), available time for preparation, purpose (eg; need to fill up for the day, or to look hip and cool for that person!) etc. Where in there is an autonomous entity intervening in the flow of life? Can you find someone somewhere?

3. Can anything be found for which 'insert name' is responsible – if so responsible to what and for what?

Close your eyes and sit quietly for 10-15 minutes. Watch what focus does. Focus on focussing, watch attention itself. Do you move it? Or it moves by itself?

It seems that attention moves itself.

What moves attention?

Attention moves to sounds or thoughts or other sensations apparently spontaneously.

Is thinking in control of attention?

No

Stream Exercise

Imagine for a moment a scene, one of a little mountain stream which is tumbling down a hillside gully, not far from its source. It has been raining and so the level is quite high. Consider in your mind's eye, if you can, how it flows to the right over a little rock (where, had the level been lower, it would probably have gone around the rock), then the flow goes to the left over a tree bow, and then slows a little in a broader place, before splashing over a small cascade into a pool, and so on down the mountain side. Does it choose any of its directions?

No, the directions happen choicelessly.

Is it even really a separate entity different from the water deposited in it, the rocks, the depressions in the ground etc?

No, the stream cannot be separated from the environment.

Is it even the same entity moment by moment, or more the product of weather conditions and water, like an ever-changing pattern?

The stream is dynamically changing all the time in relation to conditions and organisms in and around it which are all also being affected by the stream and the wider environment.

1. Can you find anywhere where 'insert name' autonomously intervenes into life, choosing something that is not the product of all the elements; that is not a part of the overall flow?

No. Everything and everyone exists in relation to everything and everyone else.

2. Now please consider a regular decision made eg; what to wear in the morning, or what to eat for lunch, and describe to me what happens. There are environmental factors, there are colour preferences (but where did those come from - any autonomous intervention there perhaps?), practical issues (such as what is available), available time for preparation, purpose (eg; need to fill up for the day, or to look hip and cool for that person!) etc. Where in there is an autonomous entity intervening in the flow of life? Can you find someone somewhere?

Nowhere in all those daily decisions or preferences is there an autonomous entity intervening in the flow of life. Even simple “choices” are contingent on innumerable factors such as appliances working, energy levels, etc. A plan to quickly take the dog out to pee before work turns into a trip to the veterinarian after the dog encounters a porcupine. There are infinite far subtler inputs on the seemingly smallest decision.

3. Can anything be found for which 'insert name' is responsible – if so responsible to what and for what?

It's so counter-cultural to say we aren't responsible for our behavior. But on the level of true autonomy, we are all really products of our environment and our genetics/biology, which is another way of saying environment, I guess.

Lots of clarity in the seeing and I am enjoying the eloquence!

Let's try the initial question again and see what comes up this time in response to the sentence "there is no separate self in any shape or form, there never was, there is no controller or decider either and there never was".

Also, please do the following exercise:

Seeing Exercise - Part I

The usual belief that 'I am this body' is usually tied in with the belief that the body as a separate item is responsible or 'DOING' the senses - 'I see', 'I hear', 'I feel' etc
We will begin with 'seeing' - Just that one sense on its own.
Close your eyes.
With eyes closed, you will now experience 'blackness'. There may be other things you can find going on, sure. If you are looking at a bright light, there may be a red glow. There may be sparkly bits or cloudy flecks appearing and disappearing - It really doesn't matter about the specifics.
Just to make things simple, whatever you can see with eyes closed, I'm going to refer to it as 'black' or 'blackness' just for simplicity.

1) With eyes closed, can you confirm that what is experienced is 'blackness' as I mentioned?
2) Is there anything else in 'seeing' other than 'blackness'?
3) Can what is witnessing the blackness be found?
4) Can a pair of eyes, an 'I' / 'me', a person be found that is witnessing the blackness? Or is there just 'blackness' to be found?
What do you find?

Can an INHERENT SEE-ER be found? Would anything that is suggested as the see-er, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?

see what comes up this time in response to the sentence "there is no separate self in any shape or form, there never was, there is no controller or decider either and there never was"

I am beginning to see through the illusion of apparent separation, and beginning to see what is meant by the Buddhist phrase “causes and conditions.”

I am beginning to see that apparent “decisions” are really happenings immediately followed by thoughts creating stories about choice and doership.

Control is an illusion given the infinite number of ways everything interacts with everything.

see what comes up this time in response to the sentence "there is no separate self in any shape or form, there never was, there is no controller or decider either and there never was"

I am beginning to see through the illusion of apparent separation, and beginning to see what is meant by the Buddhist phrase “causes and conditions.”

I am beginning to see that apparent “decisions” are really happenings immediately followed by thoughts creating stories about choice and doership.

Control is an illusion given the infinite number of ways everything interacts with everything.

Good, good direction.

Now please investigate what "beginning to see means". As you look in direct experience NOW, is a self found or not? Is a controller/doer found or not? Does "the character Deb" need a separate self or doer inside her in order to function?

Seeing Exercise - Part I

The usual belief that 'I am this body' is usually tied in with the belief that the body as a separate item is responsible or 'DOING' the senses - 'I see', 'I hear', 'I feel' etc
We will begin with 'seeing' - Just that one sense on its own.
Close your eyes.
With eyes closed, you will now experience 'blackness'. There may be other things you can find going on, sure. If you are looking at a bright light, there may be a red glow. There may be sparkly bits or cloudy flecks appearing and disappearing - It really doesn't matter about the specifics.
Just to make things simple, whatever you can see with eyes closed, I'm going to refer to it as 'black' or 'blackness' just for simplicity.

1) With eyes closed, can you confirm that what is experienced is 'blackness' as I mentioned?

Yes

2) Is there anything else in 'seeing' other than 'blackness'?

No

3) Can what is witnessing the blackness be found?

No

4) Can a pair of eyes, an 'I' / 'me', a person be found that is witnessing the blackness?

No

Or is there just 'blackness' to be found?

Just the “blackness” can be found.

What do you find?

Sensations. The seeing then noticing hearing then noticing sensations like tingling in the head area while looking for the seer.

Can an INHERENT SEE-ER be found? Would anything that is suggested as the see-er, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?

No inherent seer can be found in experience. The thoughts are a bit sticky trying to assert that the seer must be behind the eyes, etc. There is almost a quality of stubbornness to the thoughts.

Seeing Exercise - Part I

The usual belief that 'I am this body' is usually tied in with the belief that the body as a separate item is responsible or 'DOING' the senses - 'I see', 'I hear', 'I feel' etc
We will begin with 'seeing' - Just that one sense on its own.
Close your eyes.
With eyes closed, you will now experience 'blackness'. There may be other things you can find going on, sure. If you are looking at a bright light, there may be a red glow. There may be sparkly bits or cloudy flecks appearing and disappearing - It really doesn't matter about the specifics.
Just to make things simple, whatever you can see with eyes closed, I'm going to refer to it as 'black' or 'blackness' just for simplicity.

1) With eyes closed, can you confirm that what is experienced is 'blackness' as I mentioned?

Yes

2) Is there anything else in 'seeing' other than 'blackness'?

No

3) Can what is witnessing the blackness be found?

No

4) Can a pair of eyes, an 'I' / 'me', a person be found that is witnessing the blackness?

No

Or is there just 'blackness' to be found?

Just the “blackness” can be found.

What do you find?

Sensations. The seeing then noticing hearing then noticing sensations like tingling in the head area while looking for the seer.

Can an INHERENT SEE-ER be found? Would anything that is suggested as the see-er, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?

No inherent seer can be found in experience. The thoughts are a bit sticky trying to assert that the seer must be behind the eyes, etc. There is almost a quality of stubbornness to the thoughts.

Great looking right there! Now the thoughts that say "there must be a seer", are they a self or just thoughts? And the sensations are they a self or just sensations?

Also do this exercise:

Find “me” in the body

Find a comfortable place to sit or lie.
Take in a few deep breaths to settle the dust and then relax for a bit.
Spend only 30 to 60 seconds on each component of this exercise.
Bring your awareness to your entire body - sense it fully, head to toe.
Run your hands down over your torso. Feel the solidity of it.
Now bring your awareness to your feet. Again, feel them. Move them a bit. Then bring your awareness to your hands. Open and close them.
Bring your awareness to your face - all of it. Touch it with your hand.
Now point your index finger to where "insert name" is located.
Touch the exact location of "insert name".
Answer these questions:
Were you able to find and feel "insert name" in a direct way like the other parts of your body?
Where is it?
What did you find? Something? Anything? Nothing?
What sensations did you feel in your body that identified "insert name” (If any). Tell me what you experienced and found, by way of direct experience.

Now please investigate what "beginning to see” means. As you look in direct experience NOW, is a self found or not?

No.
Only sensations and thoughts are found.

Is a controller/doer found or not?

The controller/doer is not found.
Only sensations and thoughts are found.
Thoughts seem to point here or there, but there is nothing but sensation.

Does "the character Deb" need a separate self or doer inside her in order to function?

Apparently, there is just functioning accompanied by thought stream narration and imaginings. Sticky thoughts saying what must be. . .

Now the thoughts that say "there must be a seer", are they a self or just thoughts? And the sensations are they a self or just sensations?

Thoughts are just thoughts
Sensations are just sensations
No self can be found

There is a tightening against saying/writing “no self can be found,” perhaps a clinging to the concept. Habit energy?