Looking for a guide

[trp]

1. Can you find anywhere where 'you' autonomously intervene into life, choosing something that is not the product of all the elements; that is not a part of the overall flow?

Often, especially when interacting with the world, there is a sense of a self, located as a feeling in the body and connected to an (after-)thought saying 'I did this', but when seen clearly it turns out this is a body-mind-system flowing with everything else.

2. Now please consider a regular decision made eg; what to wear in the morning, or what to eat for lunch, and describe to me what happens. There are environmental factors, there are color preferences (but where did those come from - any autonomous intervention there perhaps?), practical issues (such as what is available), available time for preparation, purpose (eg; need to fill up for the day, or to look cool for a certain person) etc.

So, here's a sequential protocol of one decision-making process:
- The context is that there is the habit of going for a run every Saturday morning
- It starts with a thought: 'It's time to go for a run'
- A stirring, slightly uncomfortable sensation in the upper chest ensues
- Another thought saying 'Do I really want to go for a run?'
- A slight decrease of the stirring feeling, followed by the thought 'But I should go for a run!'
- There's an increase of body tension
- It happens that the body moves to the window and looks outside
- A tingling sensation in the whole body occurs accompanied by the thought: 'It's too cold outside'
- A slight feeling of relieve, but still some stirring happening
- A thought saying: 'I could go later when it's getting warmer'
- More relive
- A slight twitch in the upper body happening, as immediate thought response comes: 'I forgot that I have a meeting with a friend later on'
- An increasing feeling of unease in the whole body, walking around in the room, diffuse thoughts are stirred up
- Out of the thought cloud an image is formed: the memory of a run last year through the park in autumn colours at a crystal clear cold morning, associated with the feeling of pristine beauty, followed by the thought 'Running in the cold could be fun though'
- The body relaxes, preparations for the run happen, intermitted by practical thoughts (what to wear etc.) without any body charge, then the running happens as usual and fairly automatically

Where in there is an autonomous entity intervening in the flow of life?

There clearly is a body-mind entity involved, but it's not autonomous at all, but run by its own conditioned patterns and part of the unfolding of life itself.

Can you find someone somewhere?

No (if looked thoroughly enough, of course, otherwise the mind's creation of the sequence and logic of events can be easily believed).

3. Can anything be found for which 'you' are responsible – if so responsible to what and for what?

No, everything is happening on its own.

[Bluejay]

- The body relaxes, preparations for the run happen, intermitted by practical thoughts (what to wear etc.) without any body charge, then the running happens as usual and fairly automatically

This sequence would be interesting to play with. For example, are any of the thoughts that evaluate necessary? What you may discover is that there can just be 'being here' without evaluating anything and the body will move as it would have moved anyway.

No, everything is happening on its own.

Yes.

Now let's do this one to give you another angle of inquiry.

First step is to answer the below questions normally. Notice a sense of self and describe what is there.

Does the sense of self have a location?

Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?

Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?

If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?

Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?

What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?

What is found?

[trp]

Does the sense of self have a location?

Somewhere in the body at shifting places, often in the chest area

Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?

No shape, not really a size, feels like an infinitesimally small point

Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?

No

Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?

No

What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?

Sensation + thought

[Bluejay]

Excellent.

So now take this sense of self, separate the senses, and inquire into each sense.

Here's a video with an example of one way to do it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwAVOYVMac

You can write your process here with each sense on one line. For example:

Sensation in the chest, is that the self?
Words saying 'This is me', are those words the self?
Thought image of chest, is that the self?

And so on...

[trp]

I've found a recurring pattern in this type of inquiry: A sense of self is clearly not found in thought, but it appears from time to time as a subtle sensation in the body (at different places and in different intensities). When looked into it, this sensation seems always connected to an underlying emotional energy, so I create space for it, until it is felt clearer and some residual thought content appears (not as a clear narrative, but more as a general feeling tone – generally either shame/guilt or fear). When I try to ignore the label, I can drop deeper into the sensation (and it seems to wander into the lower belly), but at some point it feels as if I got stuck, and the sensation dissipates without having been fully felt.

[Bluejay]

I've found a recurring pattern in this type of inquiry: A sense of self is clearly not found in thought, but it appears from time to time as a subtle sensation in the body (at different places and in different intensities).

The sensations themselves do not have a sense of self.

When I try to ignore the label, I can drop deeper into the sensation (and it seems to wander into the lower belly), but at some point it feels as if I got stuck, and the sensation dissipates without having been fully felt.

How do you know it hasn't been fully felt?

Also, while it's great to feel into things like this, it isn't the inquiry of looking into each sense and really looking for the inherent self. Do you want to answer the questions in my previous post?

[trp]

Do you want to answer the questions in my previous post?

I don’t find a sense of self in the seen/heard/smelled/tasted, only when a thought containing ‘I’ is believed, a sense of self is created (which happens easily in the described feeling of emotions, that is associated with the thought ‘I feel’).

[Bluejay]

I don’t find a sense of self in the seen/heard/smelled/tasted, only when a thought containing ‘I’ is believed, a sense of self is created (which happens easily in the described feeling of emotions, that is associated with the thought ‘I feel’).

Now simply keep inquiring into any sense of self that pops up by separating the senses like this. When no self is found, don't immediately jump to something else or another thought, instead rest in that space, looking for a self. The lack of an answer is the answer.

This seeing has to sink down into the body, the nervous system, whatever you want to call it.

The feeling of sensation that you're doing is also excellent, especially with emotional / reactivity work.

So when a thought 'I' is believed, you inquire, over and over.

Thoughts, comments, questions on this?

You can bring up the next one and we can explore it here, or if you'd like to explore this on your own and report back, that is fine, too.

[trp]

This seeing has to sink down into the body, the nervous system, whatever you want to call it.

This part seems to be the most challenging. I've been doing a couple of inquiries now, playing around with the setting (I started out with spending 10 minutes each in seeing, hearing, sensing, and thinking, then two times 20 minutes in seeing/hearing and sensing/thinking, and ended up in flowing between all six attention fields, plus I gradually shortened the question from 'Is that the self?' to 'Self?' to just the intention of looking for a self), and it turns out that I can access more easily and spend more time in the 'in-between-space', and I also noticed that the more I'm able to this, the more the mind seem to ramp up its distractions (sometimes with storms of completely random thoughts, sometimes with intense sensations in the body). So, am I on the right track?

[Bluejay]

This part seems to be the most challenging. I've been doing a couple of inquiries now, playing around with the setting (I started out with spending 10 minutes each in seeing, hearing, sensing, and thinking, then two times 20 minutes in seeing/hearing and sensing/thinking, and ended up in flowing between all six attention fields, plus I gradually shortened the question from 'Is that the self?' to 'Self?' to just the intention of looking for a self), and it turns out that I can access more easily and spend more time in the 'in-between-space', and I also noticed that the more I'm able to this, the more the mind seem to ramp up its distractions (sometimes with storms of completely random thoughts, sometimes with intense sensations in the body). So, am I on the right track?

This sounds excellent to me.

Use any intense sensations or thoughts that feel like self for the inquiry, but it sounds like you're already doing this.

You also seem to be able to stay concentrated, so start bringing this into your everyday life. So instead meditating/sitting, do something simple at first, like taking a walk, and stay focused on 'Self?'

Is something moving the body? Moving attention? Making thoughts appear?

Then gradually bring it into other activities, like washing the dishes, listening to something, cleaning up, and so on.

and ended up in flowing between all six attention fields

Is it you flowing between the fields, or is it happening by itself?

Here's also the next pointer to start exploring decisions:

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.

2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:

- How is the movement controlled?

- Does a thought control it?

- Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

- How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

- Who or what​ ​chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

- Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

Enjoy! :)

[trp]

So instead meditating/sitting, do something simple at first, like taking a walk, and stay focused on 'Self?'

Yes, I tried it today taking a walk, it's a bit more challenging, as outside interferences occur that trigger identifying thoughts more easily, but basically the experience is the same.

Is it you flowing between the fields, or is it happening by itself?

No, attention is freely flowing on its own.

Here's also the next pointer to start exploring decisions

That's a fun exercise (bursted out laughing several times)!

- How is the movement controlled?

I don't know, it's just happening.

- Does a thought control it?

No, there's a predicting thought saying the movement will happen, but it clearly doesn't control anything and cannot tell anything about when exactly it's gonna happen.

- Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

No, there's no controlling instance (just a concurrence of a potentially infinite amount of conditions, I guess).

- How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

There's a thought "I make the decision", but that's just an afterthought to something else and doesn't turn anything (funnily enough, there is never a thought "I make the decision to not turn the hand").

- Who or what​ ​chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

It just happened, out of pure habit, I guess.

- Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

No

[Bluejay]

That's a fun exercise (bursted out laughing several times)!

It is! :-)

Yes, I tried it today taking a walk, it's a bit more challenging, as outside interferences occur that trigger identifying thoughts more easily, but basically the experience is the same.

Keep at it, re-focusing, being curious about what's going on. Also be open to however your system molds this investigation to fit your own style, like what happened with 'Self?'

There's a thought "I make the decision", but that's just an afterthought to something else and doesn't turn anything (funnily enough, there is never a thought "I make the decision to not turn the hand").

Yup! The more you can take the pointers on decisions into everyday life, the more the rug will be pulled out from under the so called 'self' which is supposed to be thinking thoughts, moving attention, controlling life, and making decisions.

Here's the first part of the next pointer about dependent origination and emptiness. You may already be familiar with this, but let's explore!

Here's a 90 second video on emptiness: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYqaWmc4OGA

Emptiness means empty of independent existence. Meaning, an inherent existence that is unchanging and permanent.

Do you see what is meant by dependent existence (dependent on causes, conditions, etc)?

Can you see how this applies to the separate self?

And do you notice how this applies to phenomena, things, and 'others'?

[trp]

Do you see what is meant by dependent existence (dependent on causes, conditions, etc)?
Can you see how this applies to the separate self?
And do you notice how this applies to phenomena, things, and 'others'?

There’s a clear intellectual, and more and more also an experiential understanding of this - in respect to the sense of self, but also the ‘outside world’, e.g., at times other people feel literally somehow empty (which, strangely enough, leads to a strong sense of intimacy).

[Bluejay]

There’s a clear intellectual, and more and more also an experiential understanding of this - in respect to the sense of self, but also the ‘outside world’, e.g., at times other people feel literally somehow empty (which, strangely enough, leads to a strong sense of intimacy).

Let's see if we can explore it experientially. You can do this one several times during the day. This one is focused on objects 'out there' and even people.

So when you see say a car, pay attention to the fact that there is no car. What do you see? Metal, glass, color, maybe some rubber.

This is not an intellectual exercise, but feel into it, just like with the pointing exercises. We've learned that there is a car that exists and it has certain attributes, but is that true?

When you see a house, is there an inherently existing house, or is it 'empty' and dependent on something?

When you see a person, is there a 'human' or 'person'? What is seen right now?

Play with this for the next day and let me know what is discovered!

[trp]

Play with this for the next day and let me know what is discovered!

I did this on several occasions and oftentimes observed a subtle, but noticeable change of perception: the visual field widened, sometimes things felt kind of blurry and patchy, the visual periphery came more to the fore, and an overall feeling of heightened presence was palpable.
(I don't know whether this has to do with these exercises or the ongoing inquiry into control and doership, or if it is relevant at all, but today a lot of intense sensations came up with which I tried to just sit as long and undistractedly as possible...)