This is lovely Maureen! Now look:
Can the sense of being be found to be separate from anything else, except in thought?
Can awareness be found separate from anything except in thought?
Can the label I/me/Maureen be found separate from anything else, except in thought?
Eager to Begin!
Re: Eager to Begin!
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Eager to Begin!
Hi Elad!
"Can the sense of being be found to be separate from anything else, except in thought?"
While I seem to access a sense of being through a particular location, it is not confined there. I experience it throughout my body, expanding out eternally. I experience it as a vast cosmic spaciousness. Just me and the Universe, nobody/ nothing else. In this case I would say my sense of being did feel to be separate from almost everything else.
Although I also experienced this while intertwined, in bed, with my mom in the days before her transition. It was a glorious, radiant experience and as Mom put it, " I do not know where I end and you begin!"
Can you offer a suggestion as to how to inquire into my sense of being so as to find out for myself if it is actually separate or perhaps includes all else?
"Can the sense of being be found to be separate from anything else, except in thought?"
While I seem to access a sense of being through a particular location, it is not confined there. I experience it throughout my body, expanding out eternally. I experience it as a vast cosmic spaciousness. Just me and the Universe, nobody/ nothing else. In this case I would say my sense of being did feel to be separate from almost everything else.
Although I also experienced this while intertwined, in bed, with my mom in the days before her transition. It was a glorious, radiant experience and as Mom put it, " I do not know where I end and you begin!"
Can you offer a suggestion as to how to inquire into my sense of being so as to find out for myself if it is actually separate or perhaps includes all else?
Re: Eager to Begin!
Beautiful with your mom 💗
Can you offer a suggestion as to how to inquire into my sense of being so as to find out for myself if it is actually separate or perhaps includes all else?
And re your question. I just did. Please look deeply and answer all three questions from last message!
With warmth,
Elad
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Eager to Begin!
For some reason I am having trouble understanding your questions.
"Can awareness (or labels) be found to be separate from anything else except in thought?"
My mind just goes completely blank!
Perhaps there is a different way you could word that question?
Thanks!
Maureen
"Can awareness (or labels) be found to be separate from anything else except in thought?"
My mind just goes completely blank!
Perhaps there is a different way you could word that question?
Thanks!
Maureen
Re: Eager to Begin!
I could but: don't let your mind convince you blank is a mistake. Don't let your mind convince you you are mainly supposed to be able to understand this with your mind. You never will deeply and truly. So again:
Look at those questions. And if your mind goes blank look at that. What is that? What does it show you, not in mind understanding but in direct experience.
Work with this sincerely, give some serious looking several times, then report to me.
Look at those questions. And if your mind goes blank look at that. What is that? What does it show you, not in mind understanding but in direct experience.
Work with this sincerely, give some serious looking several times, then report to me.
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Eager to Begin!
Focus on: Can awareness be found separate from anything except in thought?
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Eager to Begin!
Hi Elad,
I was intrigued and eager to follow through with your questions/comments. I will spend more time with this but wanted to share a preliminary discovery.
"Focus on: Can awareness be found separate from anything except in thought?"
When I ask this I experience my mind locking down, like a prison cell door is clanging shut! It is a very unfamiliar feeling.
I ask: can horses be found separate from anything except in thought?
My mind opens to that. It is intrigued. It lets in the question. They cannot be found to be separate because it is only through thought that I am able to attempt to ponder that question.
Then I flipped your question:
"Can I show myself when thinking about awareness that it is separate from anything?"
What do I think about awareness?
What is awareness?
This last question appeals to me. Really, what is awareness? (I ask myself). That is a question my mind cannot answer. Actually it's not even interested in that question. I am free to let the question percolate within my being and see what happens.
I'll get back to you on that!
Warmly,
Maureen
(This is so much fun!!!)
I was intrigued and eager to follow through with your questions/comments. I will spend more time with this but wanted to share a preliminary discovery.
"Focus on: Can awareness be found separate from anything except in thought?"
When I ask this I experience my mind locking down, like a prison cell door is clanging shut! It is a very unfamiliar feeling.
I ask: can horses be found separate from anything except in thought?
My mind opens to that. It is intrigued. It lets in the question. They cannot be found to be separate because it is only through thought that I am able to attempt to ponder that question.
Then I flipped your question:
"Can I show myself when thinking about awareness that it is separate from anything?"
What do I think about awareness?
What is awareness?
This last question appeals to me. Really, what is awareness? (I ask myself). That is a question my mind cannot answer. Actually it's not even interested in that question. I am free to let the question percolate within my being and see what happens.
I'll get back to you on that!
Warmly,
Maureen
(This is so much fun!!!)
Re: Eager to Begin!
Hi again!
More discoveries. Or rather reminders of what I already knew!
Not sure when I wrote this. (It must have been sometime in the last few weeks since being introduced to L.U.)
"Is there a sense of a separate self without thought? I do not feel separate on the trail when I am connecting through my senses in this present moment. I am one with the forest."
This is something I have experienced many times. I can definitely say that during my times in nature there is not a sense of a separate self except in thoughts. And in the inquiries I have made to date during day to day life I have clearly seen that inquiring causes both the thought and the sense of self to dissolve.
I can now answer your question: Can the label I/me/Maureen be found separate from anything else, except in thought?
No, it cannot.
Off to bed! More inquiring tomorrow.
Warmly,
Maureen
More discoveries. Or rather reminders of what I already knew!
Not sure when I wrote this. (It must have been sometime in the last few weeks since being introduced to L.U.)
"Is there a sense of a separate self without thought? I do not feel separate on the trail when I am connecting through my senses in this present moment. I am one with the forest."
This is something I have experienced many times. I can definitely say that during my times in nature there is not a sense of a separate self except in thoughts. And in the inquiries I have made to date during day to day life I have clearly seen that inquiring causes both the thought and the sense of self to dissolve.
I can now answer your question: Can the label I/me/Maureen be found separate from anything else, except in thought?
No, it cannot.
Off to bed! More inquiring tomorrow.
Warmly,
Maureen
Re: Eager to Begin!
Good stuff Maureen. Now look some more at:
(1) Can awareness be found separate from anything except in thought?
IF the mind "blanks" look at (2) what is that: what is this blank in direct experience?
If the mind goes "I am not interested in that" look at (3) what is behind this resistance?
Don't let yourself of the hook and go to other things without looking deeply at these questions and reporting.
Also:
(4) Can you find a separate self or doer or chooser or Maureen anywhere at all, except as labels/thoughts and thoughts about thoughts?
(5) Is there anything you still believe is a separate and independent you, existing as more than thoughts and stories?
Please answer ALL the questions that apply (only 2 and 3 might or might not, the others do).
Warmly,
Elad
(1) Can awareness be found separate from anything except in thought?
IF the mind "blanks" look at (2) what is that: what is this blank in direct experience?
If the mind goes "I am not interested in that" look at (3) what is behind this resistance?
Don't let yourself of the hook and go to other things without looking deeply at these questions and reporting.
Also:
(4) Can you find a separate self or doer or chooser or Maureen anywhere at all, except as labels/thoughts and thoughts about thoughts?
(5) Is there anything you still believe is a separate and independent you, existing as more than thoughts and stories?
Please answer ALL the questions that apply (only 2 and 3 might or might not, the others do).
Warmly,
Elad
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Eager to Begin!
"(1) Can awareness be found separate from anything except in thought?
IF the mind "blanks" look at (2) what is that: what is this blank in direct experience?"
Black flat emptiness that seems to be confined within my chest. This is very different from the dark but expansive and Alive spaciousness I perceive as beingness. I sat with it for a while to see if more would be revealed. Essentially it remained the same. I will check in with this again throughout the day. Do you have a suggestion on how to look more deeply?
Thanks!
Maureen
IF the mind "blanks" look at (2) what is that: what is this blank in direct experience?"
Black flat emptiness that seems to be confined within my chest. This is very different from the dark but expansive and Alive spaciousness I perceive as beingness. I sat with it for a while to see if more would be revealed. Essentially it remained the same. I will check in with this again throughout the day. Do you have a suggestion on how to look more deeply?
Thanks!
Maureen
Re: Eager to Begin!
Look to: is "black" direct experience or a label/metaphor in the mind? Same for "flat". Peel away conceptual overlay and inquire into: what is this? In direct experience.
Look forward to hear what you see, as well as what you see with regard to the other questions.
Look forward to hear what you see, as well as what you see with regard to the other questions.
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Eager to Begin!
I can see how black and flat can be seen as labels or concepts. Is empty a concept also? We learn to connect words to objects and experiences. But what if the experience is unfamiliar? I'm unclear as to how to describe this from direct experience as opposed to mind understanding. Could you explain this further?
For example: what would be my direct experience of seeing a black cat? Is that solely a mind understanding?
For example: what would be my direct experience of seeing a black cat? Is that solely a mind understanding?
Re: Eager to Begin!
"(4) Can you find a separate self or doer or chooser or Maureen anywhere at all, except as labels/thoughts and thoughts about thoughts?"
No, so far I cannot. The problem I am experiencing today is that there are so many thoughts which give rise to the sense of a separate self. When my day is simple/slow I find myself more present. Then I can observe the passing flow of input and know that I am not in control. When more is going on, I am more caught up and distracted by my thoughts. I don't take the time to inquire (over and over) and the sense of a separate self is reinforced. Once I inquire I can easily see that I have been taken in by my thoughts.
I suspect that my understanding of these teachings remains on a more superficial level. Rather than being deeply and truly seen.
At this moment my mind says: I am tired of all of this! I do not want to look further.
I will sit with this some more to see what may be behind this resistance!
No, so far I cannot. The problem I am experiencing today is that there are so many thoughts which give rise to the sense of a separate self. When my day is simple/slow I find myself more present. Then I can observe the passing flow of input and know that I am not in control. When more is going on, I am more caught up and distracted by my thoughts. I don't take the time to inquire (over and over) and the sense of a separate self is reinforced. Once I inquire I can easily see that I have been taken in by my thoughts.
I suspect that my understanding of these teachings remains on a more superficial level. Rather than being deeply and truly seen.
At this moment my mind says: I am tired of all of this! I do not want to look further.
I will sit with this some more to see what may be behind this resistance!
Re: Eager to Begin!
What is behind this resistance?
I am frustrated and tired and I can't figure this out! It's too hard, I'm not getting anywhere, I don't know what to do. My mind doesn't want to let go of being the one to figure it out. My mind is throwing a temper tantrum! Foot stamping. Is what I am calling my mind the same as my separate self?
I feel somewhat uneasy in posting these last more spontaneous thoughts to you. Usually, I realize, I try to make sure I am being very clear. I don't want to waste your time. I want to get it "right". I feel I am writing now on auto pilot and don't know if this is inappropriate. Or maybe helpful?
I am frustrated and tired and I can't figure this out! It's too hard, I'm not getting anywhere, I don't know what to do. My mind doesn't want to let go of being the one to figure it out. My mind is throwing a temper tantrum! Foot stamping. Is what I am calling my mind the same as my separate self?
I feel somewhat uneasy in posting these last more spontaneous thoughts to you. Usually, I realize, I try to make sure I am being very clear. I don't want to waste your time. I want to get it "right". I feel I am writing now on auto pilot and don't know if this is inappropriate. Or maybe helpful?
Re: Eager to Begin!
Hi! The honesty is great. Write some more about resistance and frustrated expectations, just whatever comes to mind. Don't hesitate and don't censor. Let it be about what is discovered in real time while writing. Realization is never a figuring out or getting it right, it is a seeing in real time, and it can happen simultaneously with any cognitive-emotional content whatsoever. I'll respond more tomorrow.
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Semrush [Bot] and 96 guests