"Can I have a carousel horse, with wings, for my icon picture for a while now please??"
Best idea ever!
Hi/Bye Old Self, No Self
Re: Hi/Bye Old Self, No Self
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Hi/Bye Old Self, No Self
Angelo Dilullo! He's pretty great to watch, thanks for sharing that video mix! Angelo may have been the first person I found speaking about things in a way that was so relatable.
I listened to Adyashanti's podcast today where he had a delightful discussion with ancient scholar, philosopher, mystic and author Peter Kingsley. They were talking about deep topics, while also not - just enjoying each other, very open to wherever the conversation meandered, a lot of fruitful discussion while also expressing they really don't know much of anything, and it just made my heart sing, hearing those two very scholarly and spiritual beings very humbly acknowledge that it's all just a big mystery and there wasn't an agenda, just being and enjoying. I thought I was like the lowly peasant on the side of the road, eavesdropping on their conversation as they passed by, listening, smiling at their words because it's the same as me, just talking and expressing ideas that are flowing through the mind and in the end saying who knows, it's all a mystery, doesn't make sense, but what fun! I listen to others who are NOT talking about anything remotely related to me and it's kind of the same - they're kind of saying the same thing as me, in a seemingly unrelated way, but the same. It kind of makes me laugh these days, because for quite a while now I haven't been able to feel connected to people, there aren't a lot of people to share these ideas with, but now I'm adjusting more to seeing that we're not really as separate and on different pages as I assumed : )
Something came up in a new light this week. For as long as I can remember way back to being a young child, I have been able to see and find some value in multiple sides of issues. I think I ended up in therapy at some point in adulthood partly due to this, it caused some distress within myself that I couldn't trust my bearings and navigate life - how would I know which way to go if I didn't even have a starting position? I still had opinions, but I knew there was always another valid side, or many sides, or at least unknowns I may never know and who was I to decide, and even if I did decide what worked for me didn't work for all. Another element was I felt such big sways inside me, big emotional shifts, it again made me feel like something wasn't right. I'd discuss childhood trauma with a therapist, and it would bring up such grief, other times I'd be swelling with love for these people I grew up with, that were seeking love and acceptance the same as I It was almost like I was a different person, full of love at times, full of grief and loss at others. Another vivid example is the turmoil while ex-president Trump was in office. I lost so much sleep, so much worry and fear over his policies and agendas, I hated his behavior and politics. Other times I'd be filled with so much sorrow and compassion for him, wondering what kind of childhood he had, concerned that he didn't have people in his life to truly love him, extend care and concern, to just sit and be, and experience peace. I didn't want to feel hate toward him, even if I could separate behavior from him directly, it wasn't solving anything, and I just wanted to think of him in my mind and send peace. This was a long-winded way of connecting to the new light I was alluding to - that it feels like this sense of multi-perspectives that has always been, is helpful with this process in natural way, because it feels familiar to me, that I can still sense the old position of a self (habitual) with a new position emerging of no self, that lets the old self be, I can't stop it from doing its thing anyway, I've tried (HA!) but welcomes and is experiencing the new perspective of self - probably still in the chrysalis, but happening. It's kind of funny now that I thought being able to see all sides was a problem, something seriously wrong with me, and now it feels very beneficial, and comforting.
Wishing you well in Isreal, thank you for your time and kindness.
Camille
I listened to Adyashanti's podcast today where he had a delightful discussion with ancient scholar, philosopher, mystic and author Peter Kingsley. They were talking about deep topics, while also not - just enjoying each other, very open to wherever the conversation meandered, a lot of fruitful discussion while also expressing they really don't know much of anything, and it just made my heart sing, hearing those two very scholarly and spiritual beings very humbly acknowledge that it's all just a big mystery and there wasn't an agenda, just being and enjoying. I thought I was like the lowly peasant on the side of the road, eavesdropping on their conversation as they passed by, listening, smiling at their words because it's the same as me, just talking and expressing ideas that are flowing through the mind and in the end saying who knows, it's all a mystery, doesn't make sense, but what fun! I listen to others who are NOT talking about anything remotely related to me and it's kind of the same - they're kind of saying the same thing as me, in a seemingly unrelated way, but the same. It kind of makes me laugh these days, because for quite a while now I haven't been able to feel connected to people, there aren't a lot of people to share these ideas with, but now I'm adjusting more to seeing that we're not really as separate and on different pages as I assumed : )
Something came up in a new light this week. For as long as I can remember way back to being a young child, I have been able to see and find some value in multiple sides of issues. I think I ended up in therapy at some point in adulthood partly due to this, it caused some distress within myself that I couldn't trust my bearings and navigate life - how would I know which way to go if I didn't even have a starting position? I still had opinions, but I knew there was always another valid side, or many sides, or at least unknowns I may never know and who was I to decide, and even if I did decide what worked for me didn't work for all. Another element was I felt such big sways inside me, big emotional shifts, it again made me feel like something wasn't right. I'd discuss childhood trauma with a therapist, and it would bring up such grief, other times I'd be swelling with love for these people I grew up with, that were seeking love and acceptance the same as I It was almost like I was a different person, full of love at times, full of grief and loss at others. Another vivid example is the turmoil while ex-president Trump was in office. I lost so much sleep, so much worry and fear over his policies and agendas, I hated his behavior and politics. Other times I'd be filled with so much sorrow and compassion for him, wondering what kind of childhood he had, concerned that he didn't have people in his life to truly love him, extend care and concern, to just sit and be, and experience peace. I didn't want to feel hate toward him, even if I could separate behavior from him directly, it wasn't solving anything, and I just wanted to think of him in my mind and send peace. This was a long-winded way of connecting to the new light I was alluding to - that it feels like this sense of multi-perspectives that has always been, is helpful with this process in natural way, because it feels familiar to me, that I can still sense the old position of a self (habitual) with a new position emerging of no self, that lets the old self be, I can't stop it from doing its thing anyway, I've tried (HA!) but welcomes and is experiencing the new perspective of self - probably still in the chrysalis, but happening. It's kind of funny now that I thought being able to see all sides was a problem, something seriously wrong with me, and now it feels very beneficial, and comforting.
Wishing you well in Isreal, thank you for your time and kindness.
Camille
Re: Hi/Bye Old Self, No Self
Dear Camille, so much beauty in your message. Feeling respect and inspiration in reading. And relatability. There are some questions that are asked in LU when we might be at the end or near the end of the process here, having crossed the gate that is not there and no one crosses. When that happens, you get access to other forums and groups and etc. where you can continue deepening with like-minded people. I think you might be at the point where I could send you those questions.
(1) What reactions come up when I say that?
(2) Is there anything you feel we should look into before that?
Warmth, care and respect from here
Elad
(1) What reactions come up when I say that?
(2) Is there anything you feel we should look into before that?
Warmth, care and respect from here
Elad
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Hi/Bye Old Self, No Self
The way it is written makes sense - the gateless that is crossed, that isn't there, that no one passes.
How do I feel? I feel similar to how it all began, curious, questions, uncertainty - and calmer.
There does not feel as if there is anything left to do, while there is still lots happening, and me trying to make things happen, all part of it. There is a sense that even as all this happens, more ease is possible, more rest, and reverence, and revelry when that feels right, or anger too. I feel grateful over crossing paths with you, and for your time and guidance. I will remember these conversations fondly. As far as anything else we should look at -there is a sense of resignation, but not quitting, just ending, letting go, letting it unfold on its own. My thoughts say that is giving up, but I sense it's opening up, brushing thought to the side and saying let's see. My thoughts say I'm not ready to take the next step, I still don't know anything, and still I sit and smile and say ready or not, we will see.
Camille
How do I feel? I feel similar to how it all began, curious, questions, uncertainty - and calmer.
There does not feel as if there is anything left to do, while there is still lots happening, and me trying to make things happen, all part of it. There is a sense that even as all this happens, more ease is possible, more rest, and reverence, and revelry when that feels right, or anger too. I feel grateful over crossing paths with you, and for your time and guidance. I will remember these conversations fondly. As far as anything else we should look at -there is a sense of resignation, but not quitting, just ending, letting go, letting it unfold on its own. My thoughts say that is giving up, but I sense it's opening up, brushing thought to the side and saying let's see. My thoughts say I'm not ready to take the next step, I still don't know anything, and still I sit and smile and say ready or not, we will see.
Camille
Re: Hi/Bye Old Self, No Self
Hi Camille, this is beautiful and the openness and clarity feels very helpful over here. Here is a video from one of the founders of LU, I think you might appreciate:
https://youtu.be/vJQcD588g2w
If you wish, allow yourself a couple of days of just seeing how this moves and if anything comes up, that calls for us investigating together. When you feel ready, please answer the following questions. After I receive these questions, if I get a sense something needs to be looked into, I'll let you know. Alternatively I might share the answers at the guide central. A few other guides will look and see if something comes up, that it might be good to work with before we land this process. To be clear none of us can say when the time is right, that is something that must come from you, as it seems like it might already have happened.
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was
there ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from
your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen?
How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
6) Anything to add?
Much warmth and appreciation,
Elad
https://youtu.be/vJQcD588g2w
If you wish, allow yourself a couple of days of just seeing how this moves and if anything comes up, that calls for us investigating together. When you feel ready, please answer the following questions. After I receive these questions, if I get a sense something needs to be looked into, I'll let you know. Alternatively I might share the answers at the guide central. A few other guides will look and see if something comes up, that it might be good to work with before we land this process. To be clear none of us can say when the time is right, that is something that must come from you, as it seems like it might already have happened.
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was
there ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from
your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen?
How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
6) Anything to add?
Much warmth and appreciation,
Elad
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Hi/Bye Old Self, No Self
Checking in for today :)
I am going to take your advice to allow a couple of days on this, thank you.
Wishing you well in Israel,
Camille
I am going to take your advice to allow a couple of days on this, thank you.
Wishing you well in Israel,
Camille
Re: Hi/Bye Old Self, No Self
That's great! I'm more then happy to work with you until the time feels absolutely right.
"See you" tomorrow 🙏
"See you" tomorrow 🙏
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Hi/Bye Old Self, No Self
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was
there ever?
No, there isn't a discrete self that I can locate, only the idea of self, built up over time.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from
your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
It starts young, when we shift from just experiencing without having preconceived notions about who, what, why - just IS'ness. Then as we grow and start to pull the thoughts out of experience and hold them as tangible and real, to create a story, they become the reference point and build to form a concept and sense of self, but it's all just thoughts spinning around and clouding experience. Now I can notice thoughts, like a thought train, and be a trainspotter and let it all pass, or a passenger being taken for a pointless ride!
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.
Much more calm, peaceful, much less worry, no need to hold a position, convince, control, defend - everything is valid and there is no valid position, just neutral be'ing and I still am not entirely sure (in my mind) what that means but it does feel true and how things are unfolding without being able to fully grasp it, and I feel calmer that I can't understand it yet.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
It has been such an incremental process, I don't feel like there was a major noticeable pushing over an edge or falling or loss or even finding anything -just quiet, still, peaceful, and it feels like the only thing that is real, everything else is just a thought about it and even just trying to utter a single word or step toward anything is too much. Words will be said and lots of steps and all tangled up will be emotions and thoughts about emotions and exchanges with others to discuss our thoughts and reactions, but it's all just thoughts.
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen?
It doesn't feel like I have control over this process. It is unfolding, on its own schedule, I can think I'm getting it, or never going to understand it, or fooling myself that I'm getting it and have another thought that doubts that I am and wonders why I'm trying to pretend otherwise, or totally get it and didn't think I was getting it because it's too easy, I made it too complicated - just writing this is making me chuckle, and accept that even all that thinking I have done and may even still wrestle with is just thougths that want to try to control, and can't, and create all kinds of chatter and confusion!
How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
Honestly, I'm not sure I can say for sure, except that thoughts happen and we mistaken the nature of thoughts and our agency over thoughts that just arise. I think our ego and mind get in and try to control things and work counter against just be-ing and creates a lot of suffering. I think seeing truth and how this operates in ourselves, and the world at large, is our main responsibility.
6) Anything to add?
I feel like things make more sense, but also everything is just as it was, just with more awareness, and a better sense of who we all are, and why we can't see it. I think it's all still very new and unfolding, and I believe I will still enjoy many of the things I found while seeking - books, podcasts, medications on these topics. Maybe right now I will call myself a "basker" :) I am grateful to find this space and you Elad, to help me sort through what is, and what also is but not the way I took it to be.
there ever?
No, there isn't a discrete self that I can locate, only the idea of self, built up over time.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from
your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
It starts young, when we shift from just experiencing without having preconceived notions about who, what, why - just IS'ness. Then as we grow and start to pull the thoughts out of experience and hold them as tangible and real, to create a story, they become the reference point and build to form a concept and sense of self, but it's all just thoughts spinning around and clouding experience. Now I can notice thoughts, like a thought train, and be a trainspotter and let it all pass, or a passenger being taken for a pointless ride!
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.
Much more calm, peaceful, much less worry, no need to hold a position, convince, control, defend - everything is valid and there is no valid position, just neutral be'ing and I still am not entirely sure (in my mind) what that means but it does feel true and how things are unfolding without being able to fully grasp it, and I feel calmer that I can't understand it yet.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
It has been such an incremental process, I don't feel like there was a major noticeable pushing over an edge or falling or loss or even finding anything -just quiet, still, peaceful, and it feels like the only thing that is real, everything else is just a thought about it and even just trying to utter a single word or step toward anything is too much. Words will be said and lots of steps and all tangled up will be emotions and thoughts about emotions and exchanges with others to discuss our thoughts and reactions, but it's all just thoughts.
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen?
It doesn't feel like I have control over this process. It is unfolding, on its own schedule, I can think I'm getting it, or never going to understand it, or fooling myself that I'm getting it and have another thought that doubts that I am and wonders why I'm trying to pretend otherwise, or totally get it and didn't think I was getting it because it's too easy, I made it too complicated - just writing this is making me chuckle, and accept that even all that thinking I have done and may even still wrestle with is just thougths that want to try to control, and can't, and create all kinds of chatter and confusion!
How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
Honestly, I'm not sure I can say for sure, except that thoughts happen and we mistaken the nature of thoughts and our agency over thoughts that just arise. I think our ego and mind get in and try to control things and work counter against just be-ing and creates a lot of suffering. I think seeing truth and how this operates in ourselves, and the world at large, is our main responsibility.
6) Anything to add?
I feel like things make more sense, but also everything is just as it was, just with more awareness, and a better sense of who we all are, and why we can't see it. I think it's all still very new and unfolding, and I believe I will still enjoy many of the things I found while seeking - books, podcasts, medications on these topics. Maybe right now I will call myself a "basker" :) I am grateful to find this space and you Elad, to help me sort through what is, and what also is but not the way I took it to be.
Re: Hi/Bye Old Self, No Self
Sounds very beautiful here Camille. I'll let a few other guides look if they think we might support clarity of seeing a little more. In any case this is a shift "point" and at the same time the process of seeing through limiting beliefs continue.. Much warmth and will write you again after input from other guides.
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Hi/Bye Old Self, No Self
Dear Camille,
Three other guides looked at your answers and responded confirmingly :) A lady named Nerina will contact you, she will invite to the Facebook group for LU "gateless-gate-crashers" and share some other stuff with you that can be supportive from here. I will be on the lookout for you joining the group and greet you there. Once we connect there, I will also share with you info of a couple of other regular opportunities to meet "like-minded" on Zoom calls. These are also good places if questions come up. Camille, it has felt like a true privilege and a pleasure to share this process with you. See you on the other side!
With love,
Elad
Three other guides looked at your answers and responded confirmingly :) A lady named Nerina will contact you, she will invite to the Facebook group for LU "gateless-gate-crashers" and share some other stuff with you that can be supportive from here. I will be on the lookout for you joining the group and greet you there. Once we connect there, I will also share with you info of a couple of other regular opportunities to meet "like-minded" on Zoom calls. These are also good places if questions come up. Camille, it has felt like a true privilege and a pleasure to share this process with you. See you on the other side!
With love,
Elad
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
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