The Gate

if I were to give it a name, I would call it oneness. there then was a thought - how do the others experience this? then again had 'the experience' and a seeing that there there are no others.

Sounds like there was a glimpse of everything just happening, and then also seeing how thought labels and separates everything.

This is a good moment to see:

Did 'you' control any of this, either experiencing openness or coming back?

Was there a self that made this experience happen?

it has not happened again. i feel a little like I may be chasing it and also not trusting it, like mind is doing some kind of voodoo magic.

No need to chase it. That never works.

The mind had no involvement in what happened, so no need to worry about the mind doing any kind of magic. Sounds like what 'you' experienced was simply the truth of experience (ie. there is no feeler of sensations, only sensations).

Like they say in Buddhism (bahiya sutta):

"In the seen, there is only the seen,
in the heard, there is only the heard,
in the sensed, there is only the sensed,
in the cognized, there is only the cognized.
Thus you should see that
indeed there is no thing here;

As you see that there is no thing there,
you will see that
you are therefore located neither in the world of this,
nor in the world of that,
nor in any place
betwixt the two.
This alone is the end of suffering."

though it has made it a bit more complicated to do the exercise cause thought comes... well you know that is not I now.

Could you clarify this a bit more?

Also seeing a sense of being moved from the middle of my body re the bodies GPS..

Also not clear on this one. Tell me more?

Thinking about your question - The times I feel the smallest are when I am berating myself or feeling aggrieved or attacking another.

Okay, thank you. We can explore this at a later point to keep things short. I've written it down in my notes.

Did 'you' control any of this, either experiencing openness or coming back?

Was there a self that made this experience happen?

There was nothing that i recognise that made this happen.  It just felt like a very brief, spontaneous shift in and out of something.

though it has made it a bit more complicated to do the exercise cause thought comes... well you know that is not I now.Could you clarify this a bit more?

ummm something to do with transferring the 'bed experience' into the exercise.  there was no one in the experience that was me.  so i suppose it was a kind of logical conclusion, also a kind of sensation in the body of a kind of no, a flat of the hand hand up facing the thought that seems to be in the area of the  middle of the body, but not ummm in or of the body

Also seeing a sense of being moved from the middle of my body re the bodies GPS..Also not clear on this one. Tell me more?

I think this also kind of ties in with the above.  have also felt a kind of pull from the middle to do something

There was nothing that i recognise that made this happen. It just felt like a very brief, spontaneous shift in and out of something.

Yes, exactly. It could've also been a permanent shift that just felt like in/out. Let's explore..

ummm something to do with transferring the 'bed experience' into the exercise. there was no one in the experience that was me. so i suppose it was a kind of logical conclusion, also a kind of sensation in the body of a kind of no, a flat of the hand hand up facing the thought that seems to be in the area of the middle of the body, but not ummm in or of the body

Ah, I think I understand now.

So can you find an I/me right now anywhere?

have also felt a kind of pull from the middle to do something

Is this a restless feeling of wanting to do something, or is it different?

So can you find an I/me right now anywhere?

There is  this shape sat on the chair typing that is labelled deborah.  in terms of stories that make deborah, deborah, there is still that deborah sat here.  there is also deborah who had the ' bed experience' (what shall i call that? is shift sufficient?) that knows that, that is not the truth of deborah.  so i suppose yes, in the sense that i can see the two experiences of deborah one that is deborah as i have traditionally thought of her and one that is deborah,  but was/is not deborah.  

no, its not restless, in fact its quite still

Okay, got it! :)

It sounds like you had a shift. If there's stillness, just rest 'in' it and enjoy to whatever extent it happens.

Let's do a few exercises to see what's going on and if there's something that still needs to be looked at.

Observing Thoughts

Sit quietly and notice the arising thoughts. Just let them appear.

Try your best to completely ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear without you doing anything at all.

Where are they coming from and going to?

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?

Can you predict the next thought?

Can you select from a range of thoughts to only have pleasant thoughts?

Do you control where attention goes?

Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

It may seem like thoughts are ordered logically, but look carefully. Is there an organized sequence? Or is it just another thought that says 'these thoughts are in sequence' or 'they take content from previous thoughts' or 'one thought follows another thought'?

Let me know what you find :)

-so.... thought is before i start..... there are times i can choose to think about things. for example - now i am going to think about what i am going to pack my overnight bag and think about what i am going to put in it - what i need to take with me. now i am going to reflect on the experience of say, my experience of being with my mum, what thoughts and feelings did i have, what beliefs do i have that made those particular thoughts and feelings arise or i am at work - a situation happens, how am i going to deal with this situation for a good outcome for the customer, the business and myself.. . lol, but when reviewing past experience, can also see that mind can take me on detours whilst supposedly being focussed on the thought task.  Also, through ACIM application of the lessons, I dont have as much  'freefall thinking' and  I am less likely to identify with the thoughts as they arise.  Also  noticing how mind refises to think when put in the spotlight.    

Where are they coming from and going to? 

they are just popping in.  if i choose to be hooked by them, they stick around and be embellished, if i let them rise and recognise them as just a thought, they just go

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

if i am not choosing to focus on a particular subject or experience, no, they just appear

Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?

no, they seem random and spontaneous

Can you predict the next thought?

No, even in the focussed thinking, i cant predict what im going to think

Can you select from a range of thoughts to only have pleasant thoughts?

no, even if i choose to think about something that is 'pleasurable' i cannot guarentee that an unpleasant thought wont pop in

Do you control where attention goes?

I have a go, like in the above examples but ttention doesnt always stay where i want to put it.

Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?

I can only spot them when they happen and then not choose them

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

only in situations like the above.... but then i suppose i can only ask the enquiry questions, what comes after that is not able to be chosen or predicted

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

No, but i can choose not to think about it.

if i choose to be hooked by them, they stick around and be embellished, if i let them rise and recognise them as just a thought, they just go

Isn't this choice also a thought popping in?

I can only spot them when they happen and then not choose them

What determines when you choose not to have painful/negative thoughts?

Sometimes a choice is made and sometimes not. Since you don't know what thought is coming, how is the choice made?

No, but i can choose not to think about it.

Same here: Isn't this seeming choice just another thought popping up?

What allows you to control these choosing thoughts and not the others?

there are times i can choose to think about things. for example - now i am going to think about what i am going to pack my overnight bag and think about what i am going to put in it - what i need to take with me.

What prompted this line of thinking that had the purpose of showing that choosing is possible?

Look at the causes like this conversation, genetics, weather, food you ate today, mood, personality, experiences.

Also, through ACIM application of the lessons, I dont have as much 'freefall thinking' and I am less likely to identify with the thoughts as they arise. Also noticing how mind refises to think when put in the spotlight.

Do you notice that this is a description of a process?

Is there a thinker controlling thoughts in this, or is all this just happening?

there are times i can choose to think about things. for example - now i am going to think about what i am going to pack my overnight bag and think about what i am going to put in it - what i need to take with me.What prompted this line of thinking that had the purpose of showing that choosing is possible?

i think i confused, having a bunch of seemingly related thoughts in response to an event, circumstance, happening, with actually choosing the thoughts.  

if i choose to be hooked by them, they stick around and be embellished, if i let them rise and recognise them as just a thought, they just go. Isn't this choice also a thought popping in?  

yes, there is a thought about whether i grab the thought and go with it or let it sail through.

What determines when you choose not to have painful/negative thoughts

ummm i cant choose not to have them but when i have them, its another thought that judges them as painful/negative cause they come  with a sensation in the body that is judged as painful 

Is there a thinker controlling thoughts in this, or is all this just happening?

i see the thoughts are just randomly happening and some of them are thoughts based on past experience in response to specific circumstance, like a programme.   thinking about writing an essay.... was thinking there was some choice there, then realising its an other thought that puts them, the thoughts into a coherent order - ummm based on memories, judgements about about how to convey an idea.  Is an idea just another thought?
when im not doing this exercise and just thought watching.  i see they are random, cant be predicted and not really mine i have no control over them.  doing this exercise it feels more like they belong to me because i am thinking about them.   Agggghhh!

i think i confused, having a bunch of seemingly related thoughts in response to an event, circumstance, happening, with actually choosing the thoughts.

This can get tricky! :)

ummm i cant choose not to have them but when i have them, its another thought that judges them as painful/negative cause they come with a sensation in the body that is judged as painful

And to look at this a bit more: Where does the judgment of them being painful come from? (this can of course not be answered accurately, but contemplation of this can open up other doors)

i see the thoughts are just randomly happening and some of them are thoughts based on past experience in response to specific circumstance, like a programme. thinking about writing an essay.... was thinking there was some choice there, then realising its an other thought that puts them, the thoughts into a coherent order - ummm based on memories, judgements about about how to convey an idea. Is an idea just another thought?

Of course, what else would an idea be?

when im not doing this exercise and just thought watching. i see they are random, cant be predicted and not really mine i have no control over them. doing this exercise it feels more like they belong to me because i am thinking about them. Agggghhh!

Since you cannot predict the thoughts or control them, what is it that makes them seemingly belong to something?

And what do they belong to? Sensations? An image? A thought?

And to look at this a bit more: Where does the judgment of them being painful come from? (this can of course not be answered accurately, but contemplation of this can open up other doors)

the judgement comes from memories of having the feeling- sensation before where it has been attached to something that was difficult/uncomfortable.    it is also thought/s.  it brings that into the present experience

Since you cannot predict the thoughts or control them, what is it that makes them seemingly belong to something?

Because it is where i seem to put my attention

And what do they belong to? Sensations? An image? A thought?

All of the above.  A sensation can conjure an image or thought.  a thought can prompt a sensation and or an image and likewise an image can   prompt a thought or sensation.

The video you asked me to watch... should i continue to watch the series, or wait for you to prompt me to watch each one?
Thanks Henri :-) grateful for your guidence

Because it is where i seem to put my attention

Do you put attention there or does attention go there seemingly autonomously like the body digesting food?

What is it that they belong to? Is there an entity there that is thinking these thoughts?

If it is a sensation, can a sensation think? Can a sensation claim the thoughts?

All of the above. A sensation can conjure an image or thought. a thought can prompt a sensation and or an image and likewise an image can prompt a thought or sensation.

Yes, there can be conditioning where an image leads to a sensation and so on.

But even this isn't as clear as it first seems. If you have a certain sensation, do the same thoughts always appear in the same logical order?

Earlier you said that it feels like the thoughts belong to you, but in the quote above you are simply describing the process of conditioning. Where is the 'me' in this?

Now you might say "The thought belongs to what feels like a me."

Here we simply inquire:

- The sensations that feel like a me, is that me?
- The thought 'it belongs to the feeling of me', is that me?

Will the real me please stand up? :-)

The video you asked me to watch... should i continue to watch the series, or wait for you to prompt me to watch each one?
Thanks Henri :-) grateful for your guidence

Prioritize our conversation, but if there's more time and you have the urge, feel free to explore the videos in that series :)

Because it is where i seem to put my attention Do you put attention there or does attention go there seemingly autonomously like the body digesting food? 

it seems i am having difficulty giving up the illusion of having a choice - lol. yes, the attention just goes there

What is it that they belong to? Is there an entity there that is thinking these thoughts?

no, the thoughts just haoppen

If it is a sensation, can a sensation think? Can a sensation claim the thoughts?

no, a sensation cant think and so cannot claim the thought

Yes, there can be conditioning where an image leads to a sensation and so on.

But even this isn't as clear as it first seems. If you have a certain sensation, do the same thoughts always appear in the same logical order?

no, the sensation is usually in response to something in the present -> new thoughts about the present.  this can trigger the memory to bring in past stories

- The sensations that feel like a me, is that me?
- The thought 'it belongs to the feeling of me', is that me?

No, thats not me

Will the real me please stand up? :-)

lol

it seems i am having difficulty giving up the illusion of having a choice - lol. yes, the attention just goes there

No problem. Like any habit, it can take 'time'. It might be helpful to see it not as something that is realized or not, instead see it as uninstalling an app that goes from 0% to 3% to 3.5% to 10% to 25% and so on.

And instead of it being one thing, there are many micro habits making up the larger habit, and that is what LU is about--we are unraveling each seeming habit of self.

Let's explore choice:

Palm Flipping Exercise

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.

2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:

- How is the movement controlled?

- Does a thought control it?

- Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

- How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

- Who or what​ ​chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

- Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

Enjoy! :)

Thank you, getting ready for work now. catch up tomorrow :-)

Got it!