The Gate

Did you mean "doesn't?"

Santa doesn't exist in DE.

If you *think* he does, which senses?

Loving,

You mentioned "doer."

I "feel it" behind the eyes as the doer alot of the time.

Try this one. Report how it FEELS to SEE. Do NOT anal-yze the exercise.

Doership Exercise

You seem to see that there is no self to be found. Now let’s have a look at the feeling of being a 'doer’.

Take a few relaxed breaths to let the dust settle for a while, and then: Look on your right.

Then look on your left.

Finally, bring your head back to centre, close your eyes and look in front.


Okay, so when you look on the right, the view on the right is seen (whatever that is).

When you look on the left, the view on the left is seen (whatever that is).

And then, when you look in front of you with eyes closed, the view in front is seen (ie ‘black space’).



So, when the view on the right is seen, do you have the ‘choice’ not to see? I’m not asking can you ‘choose’ to see something else like another view or ‘black space’ if you close your eyes. The question is; can you turn seeing off?

Can you NOT see what is seen?


Same thing with the view on the left, can you NOT see the view on the left?

Same thing with the view in front with closed eyes, can you NOT see the ‘black space’?

Can you turn off seeing?

What did the 'chooser' choose?

Did a 'self' choose something?

If you are unable to choose what you're aware of, then what else is there to choose?

I'll be mostly ignoring analysis & responding only to reports on the experience of doing the pointers, answering the questions & SEEING there's no "self." It's the only way.

Loving,

I meant Santa doesn’t exist in DE

I tried to correct it but couldn’t figure it out
I guess I’ll have check it twice ( like Santa;-)

Alright, so just like Santa, there's no "self."

Why or how are you fooled when "self" seems to "appear," when you've seen there's nothing there?

This is it. There's nothing else to discover. You simply need to accept what you've seen and retain continuity of that even if it looks like there is some seeming self. Just like Santa in his red suit. But you know better!

As far as I can tell, and I am not in your head… it appears that you are simply stuck in believing your thinking and you are wallowing in doubt.

If you want to stay there, and believe that you have not seen, no one can come between you and your thinking. You can believe anything you want, true or false. No one can stop you.

Did I send these?

Watch this, please:

https://youtu.be/vJQcD588g2w

and

https://youtu.be/PUDzrCLlrj4

Loving,

In Lisa's video she says, "Ive been living in a room with light, wondering if I'm in the dark......"
Ok I get this.
However her description of the light flooding in, laughter, etc. never happened here. It was sooooo gradual.
AND there is a moment every day or so where short term identification with thought still causes suffering.

SO, I love that you will not let me anal-yze and we will carry on looking.

In the doership exercise it is clear it is impossible to turn off seeing, hearing, tasting, breathing, blinking, any organ functions etc.
However there is still a sense that a Chooser chose to turn the head right and then left. I intellectually know the thought comes approx 7 seconds after the action.
In DE I can see that if thought says, "turn head right" the body may or may not follow and doesn't respond in predictable way YET...........

If you are unable to choose what you're aware of, then what else is there to choose?

This exercise did not prove to me I am unable to choose WHAT i am aware of, rather if proved that I am unable to choose IF i am aware.(via the sense fields).
Thought said " OK now look at the bed" then a few seconds later I looked at the bed. This feels like a chooser
Then a thought said, listen to the sound of bird song, and the response was focusing attention on birds over other sounds.....

*sigh* Okay.

On a lighter note, while driving today I found myself saying, "I" am a university, "I" am a forest, "I" am a car"
(Eg an abstract concept made of body, thoughts, sensations, perceptions). Following on those parts are made of other so called parts (cells, molecules atoms etc) on and on till no-thing exists at all.
I have done this intellectually before, but today it seemed ridiculously obvious.
I almost broke out laughing but at that moment I pulled up to pick up "my mother" and put on my poker face.

Laughter like this happens when we SEE. Or when we integrate a paradox.

These happenings are clear seeing. You know that.

Pay attention to them. Relax into them. I suggest not suppressing laughter or tears.

What else has "worked"to bring you to a similar point?

Loving,

What else has "worked"to bring you to a similar point?

"Sigh" is right!

I have had clear seeing on day 5 of 10 day Vipassana retreat. Lasted 10 hrs.
At retreat with Adya lasted 24 hours, and in the middle of the night waking from a dream
During my dark retreat of and on throughout.
Spontaneously alone in a hotel room
These were all seeing through aspects of belief systems like no inside/ outside, There is not other,
everything is love.......
huge downloads of information about the way "reality" is constructed (physics mathematics etc)
Yet doubt came in within 24 hours in most cases in the form of my mind trying to "package it" as an
experience "i" had.......

Never have I fully 'seen' through thought or the total absence of doer/thinker.......

I thought of a few more.....
Mind stopped for a few hours. The only thing I heard was "perfect brilliant stillness" from a voice that was not my own.
Angelo Dulillo's house when he said "that's ego" every time I offered a thought until the mind stopped (for the evening;-)
seeing someone take their last breath for the first time
Rushing to work one day, seeing a bee in a flower and realizing I don't know anything.


there are probably more. It seems to prove your point but I swear there was never lasting peace or freedom, joy or dis-identification with thought......

I loved your laughter in the death recording!

After relistening to Ilona’s video I can honestly say that I still feel like I look at life through the lens of “me” and “ my”
I am not saying this to annoy you. There literally has not been an embodiment of “no me” here, nor an end to seeking, nor a relief from suffering/fear.
I am not a character who lacks confidence or experiences frequent doubt.

Okay, good.

Yes, I couldn't stop laughing. I was connected for months after that weekend.

there was never lasting peace or freedom, joy or dis-identification with thought.....

You simply have an unreasonable fantasy about what it will be like. It isn't "lasting" in the way you expect. As long as we're in a body, it's lather, rinse, repeat. You may have even heard that in the recordings I shared.

You have a peak experience & then you run into some untrue thought & boom! You're identified with that & seemingly "lose it."

I suspect that if you ask Angelo. Adya & Rupert, you'll find that they have less than "lasting peace or freedom, joy or dis-identification with thought." That thoughts arise & must be met with truth.

The reason we call it lasting is because we lose the doubt. We know that there is no self even when an appearance shows up and Santa Claus has his red suit on. We are not fooled.

All you need to do is get over your doubt. I never had any doubt and I don't think I'm very good at sharing how to do that. However there is a guide I know who did have a lot of doubt and I will ask him for some tips.

Do you see what I'm saying? Your thought of "lasting" and what it should look like is an expectation and it's keeping you in a future thought of some fantasy which keeps you from perfect peace now.

I'd love it if I could just say, "Stop it!" and that would be that, but it doesn't usually work that way.

https://youtu.be/jvujypVVBAY

I do love your persistence.

I'll be back.

Loving,

PS. Yes, it is more difficult when it's gradual, but the things you've described weren't gradual.

Here is something I want you to try please. Tell me exactly step-by-step how you make a choice. Be very detailed.

I was not able to see what you want me to try. Is it somewhere I cannot see or did you forget to include it in the post;-)?

Really? It is right there.

Here is something I want you to try please. Tell me exactly step-by-step how you make a choice. Be very detailed.

Got it?

Funny you didn't see that.

Loving,

Tell me exactly step-by-step how you make a choice. Be very detailed

.



A sensation or contraction in the body is a prequel to the thought:

“I need to decide what to do about xyz “
Or “I am hungry” for example.
This triggers other thoughts considering the alternatives etc.
I check in again with my body for body yes /body no.
Conscious “I” does not decide the answer to body yes/no, but there is a strong belief here that “ I contain multitudes and some of these are beneath conscious awareness.


The vast majority of actions are automatic, without any conscious decisions being made-most driving, drinking and eating, brushing teeth and other highly habitual behaviors.
If I check in however I feel like “I” am doing these things mostly because of the point of view and embodied subject object sensation ( this is why we started on fetter 6).