Pre-Awakening

[Statum]

And where is the thinker of thoughts, when thoughts appear?

Could you try finding it? Please don't jump to the conclusion that there is none.
Actually look for it, and if there is even a bit of thinker perceived, please
report.

Speaking from direct experience, I don’t know where the thinker of thoughts is. There is just another thought which claims to be the thinker or there is a rationalization that determines that attention is the thinker of thoughts.

There seems to be something aside from the thoughts which is aware of the thoughts. To put it another way, there seems to be something that is aware of “myself” which I want to call “myself” also.

All this being said, I can’t differentiate between the thoughts and the thoughts that claim to be the thinker of thoughts. They seem to inhabit the same landscape whether one thought claims to be the cause or the effect; they are both coming from the same space of “no thought” which is seemingly the space before and after thoughts occur.

[Bananafish]

There seems to be something aside from the thoughts which is aware of the thoughts. To put it another way, there seems to be something that is aware of “myself” which I want to call “myself” also.

Ok, let's have a look at this. :)
Please try finding that "something" which exists apart from the state of being aware.

Please report what you found.

[Statum]

Ok, let's have a look at this. :)
Please try finding that "something" which exists apart from the state of being aware.

Please report what you found.

I can’t find anything that exists outside of the state of being aware. Just thoughts which try to label and categorize the state of being aware using language and symbols. But that also happens inside the state of being aware.

[Bananafish]

Hi. :) Do you still feel that there is "something" that's aware, or doing other things?
Please be honest about it, and share how you are feeling now.

[Statum]

Hi. :) Do you still feel that there is "something" that's aware, or doing other things?
Please be honest about it, and share how you are feeling now.

I feel that I honestly wouldn’t even know what that would look like; to have “something” controlling experience or “something” outside of awareness that is aware. What else could something be aside from itself? I feel that if I say anything more than this, it is saying too much.

[Bananafish]

Hi Statum. :). That "I feel" sounds more like "I think."

What is the gut feeling? More simply, do you still sense that subject ( I, me, self, consciousness ... name it in any way),
separate from everything else, that can control your action, and is living from the past to the present
into the future time?

Refer not so much to thought contents, but the gut feeling you have about the above.

Best wishes,

Kento

[Statum]

What is the gut feeling? More simply, do you still sense that subject ( I, me, self, consciousness ... name it in any way),
separate from everything else, that can control your action, and is living from the past to the present
into the future time?

Yes you’re absolutely right.The gut feeling is that there is a self which can identify with the contents of thought that is separate from the contents of thought. There is still something that I need to do or understand so as to actualize the truth. That doesn’t make any sense to me as I think about it, but that is definitely the feeling.

[Bananafish]

Ok, Statum. :) Let's follow that gut feeling and shed light on it.

Would it be possible to take that feeling down to the level of bare sensation?
What kind of sensation relates to that feeling?


Btw ...

There is still something that I need to do or understand so as to actualize the truth.

You never know this.

Be careful of this belief, as it might get in the way of "actualizing the truth."
Or rather, it can be the very thing that is hindering clear seeing.


Warm wishes,

Kento

[Statum]

Would it be possible to take that feeling down to the level of bare sensation?
What kind of sensation relates to that feeling?

Ok. It feels like the mind looking for something. Looking at sensations in the stomach and chest, but not finding it. Looking somewhere between the eyes and behind the ears and not finding it. Looking at emotions and not finding it.

It’s like when I look for the gut feeling of self, I can’t find it. But when I’m not looking for it, then it’s here.

[Bananafish]

But when I’m not looking for it, then it’s here.

Please feel into it and describe it in details.

[Statum]

Please feel into it and describe it in details.

Pressure behind the eyes. Tension in my chest and stomach. A slight tingling in the back of my throat.Thoughts of frustration and impatience at not being able to make sense of something. Desiring things to go this way and not go that way. Fear of what might or might not happen.

[Bananafish]

Let's have a look, one by one. :)

Pressure behind the eyes.

Whose pressure is it? Is there a feeler of pressure anywhere apart from the pressure itself?

[Statum]

Whose pressure is it? Is there a feeler of pressure anywhere apart from the pressure itself?

No I can’t find any trace of a feeler of pressure apart from the pressure itself.

[Bananafish]

Tension in my chest and stomach.

What αbout this? Is it your chest and stomach?
Is it your tension?

Please observe carefully.

[Statum]

What αbout this? Is it your chest and stomach?
Is it your tension?

Please observe carefully.

When this is present, it is also just itself. There’s nothing behind it that I can find.