The veil thinnens - where is the veil? Need of a guide

[Elettaria]

First, can you remember a time when you lied to someone you loved?

I do remember one, but I am going with a made up one, which is even stronger in sensation: "I don’t care about animals."

Then scan your body for any Sensation (DE or Direct Experience), particularly in the gut or maybe the heart. Check very closely.

What is found?

Strong contraction along the front middle line of the body, starting around the eye brows, very strong on my right eye and next the right side of the nose some how, strongest sensation being in my throat, it is absolutely tight, I can hardly get myself to say it, then contraction, quick pulsation, warmth continuing down, heart a little bit, stronger again at the solarplexus down until I guess 1 cun below the navel, so lower belly. If I repeat the lie a few times in a row, the contraction and heat in the solarplexus move to my stomach and I am getting nauseated (I think, this is sensation plus thought.).

Very very strong and clear sensation to me.

I repeated this exercise with a few made up lies of different "sizes". I realized the most immediate response is the heated contraction on my right facial side. Which is interesting, because it is an always tense area. So I will just use that.

Please report back with what body Sensations (not interpretations) you feel. Bodies can feel hot or cold, heavy or light, contraction or expansion, etc.

"Peaceful" is an interpretation of a body Sensation, not the Sensation itself, for example.

Do you see that?

Yes I do. I think, "tingly" is such an example I used earlier. Because there is thought attached to how such a sensation can evolve.

[Elettaria]

Oh and please feel free not to reply until the next day when I reply faster. We agreed to write once a day. I appreciate your voluntary guidance very much, but don't want to "steal" your time.

[Anastacia42]

Hi,

I reply when I see them & I'm on my phone all day. You're not wasting my time at all.

Don't overthink this next one. Just the obvious.


Label-Reality Correlation

There is a belief that labels have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’. But there isn’t. Just like it is a generally accepted belief that labels like ‘good’ and ‘bad’ are inherent characteristics of ‘things’. But actually, they are not.

When you look at the word label ‘GREEN' , what is the actual experience?

Is the color red ‘experienced’, or is the color green ‘experienced’ as the label suggests?

Does the label ‘GREEN’ have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’? Or does the label suggest something else other than what is here now (red colour)?

Is 'green' associated in any way with the experience of the colour red; or is green just a label that overlays the actual experience of red?

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’ , is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?

Does redness become ‘good’ or ‘bad’, or do the labels have no affect whatsoever on ‘reality’?

Let me know what is SEEN (not thought).

Loving,

[Elettaria]

When you look at the word label ‘GREEN' , what is the actual experience?

Is the color red ‘experienced’, or is the color green ‘experienced’ as the label suggests?

There is some sort of a fight happening within me. I see one thing, read another and try to bring it together with a lot of force and energy. But I clearly feel my throat and the right side of the face contracting. So it is a lie.

Does the label ‘GREEN’ have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’? Or does the label suggest something else other than what is here now (red colour)?

The label is completely detached from the experience. It doesn't point to something real right now. It is a concept.

Is 'green' associated in any way with the experience of the colour red; or is green just a label that overlays the actual experience of red?

I feel the label is sort of trying to reshape the actual experience of red, but failing to do so. However it creates a distance to the actual experience, through its story. I see how our stories create a veil between us and real experience.

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’ , is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?

Does redness become ‘good’ or ‘bad’, or do the labels have no affect whatsoever on ‘reality’?

I feel no effect on the redness by the labels happening. Only the other way around. It is easier to keep the label aside here.
(It reminds me of a smelling exercise: Take the same scent and put it on different colored paper stripes. Let people smell and describe it. Very different stories.)

Thank you.

[Anastacia42]

Yes, I expected that. This is called being language bound. You are stuck on words and cannot see what is in front of you.

Is the color red ‘experienced’, or is the color green ‘experienced’ as the label suggests?

Did you notice that you never answered this question? Please answer the question.

Seeing is going to be very hard for you until you stop believing the words. The thinking. My new signature line quote is for you.

Loving,

[Elettaria]

Haha.

Is the color red ‘experienced’, or is the color green ‘experienced’ as the label suggests?

The color red is experienced for me.

[Anastacia42]

Yes, good. Here's part 2:

Friend/Stranger

Bring up a thought about a character labeled "friend."

Then bring up a thought about a character labeled "stranger."

Compare these thoughts.

Is there a difference in these thoughts?

Is there a true difference or is it just different content?

Now, bring up a thought about a character labeled "friend."

After that, look at a thought about the character labelled "me.”

Is there a difference?

Is there anything special about thoughts with the content "me-character?"

Let me know what is found.

Labeling the day, the Sensations, etc. does nothing to reduce their beauty or joy, but can hide them from our awareness.

Loving,

[Elettaria]

Bring up a thought about a character labeled "friend."

Then bring up a thought about a character labeled "stranger."

Compare these thoughts.

Is there a difference in these thoughts?

Is there a true difference or is it just different content?

No, there is no difference at all, except for contents. Just thoughts arising, fading. That is quite clear to me.

Now, bring up a thought about a character labeled "friend."

After that, look at a thought about the character labelled "me.”

Is there a difference?

Same here.

Is there anything special about thoughts with the content "me-character?"

Let me know what is found.

There is no difference to be found. No sensation, none, just thought, no special nothing. And very easily perceived.

[Anastacia42]

Yes. Can you say 100% that there is no "self" anywhere, never has been and never will be?

Loving,

[Elettaria]

I read this question a few times prior to having you as guide, when I was trying to sort it out by myself.
Never came I this close. But I cannot say that I was seeing it unfortunately.

I practiced on and off today, I actually took it to bed with me already and I remember waking up every now and then with this question in mind. When I came back from running an errand, walking along the street it almost "got me". I practiced DE, going into pure experience, seeing thoughts just as they are, everything was clear and then I was realizing there is something holding me in a central thought (that someone who seems to realize all that). So I remembered Ilona inviting to let go by letting oneself fall (in the video you sent me). I let myself fall, still walking alongside the road, getting weary eyes of joy and excitement (interpretation), was able to keep trying for about 2 minutes and - snap - I was in thought-world again, because I had to keep my eye on the traffic and had a meeting in half an hour. I wasn't able to get there again later in my comfy living room - somehow it really helps me to be outside. Almost all the times I had a quick look was outside, sitting in cafés etc. Only once at home, but I was with someone (even if it was a recorded video).

So there is some fear I guess.

I know this fear. It's the fear of the unknown, when everything changes, that I once believed in. It's loss of control (I know - mind - there is no control, there never was!). It's the fear of getting swallowed by the vast openness and darkness, which I came across a few times on the spiritual path. I even have a picture of that: Lying in a big lake or ocean, in the darkness, with a clear night sky, full of stars and my supertrigger milkyway (I am really afraid of that), and the stars are mirrored by the water around me. Full on fear. Maybe I can do something with it. It not an actual memory of an event. Except that I am generally really afraid of seeing a lot of stars, which is not happening where I live. Seeing few stars I actually like. Also I can not enter water, where I cannot see through (like it being in the dark night). This is linked to actual events of helping someone as a kid to not drown (success) and getting into a water vortex twice when I was a kid, where I needed help to get out. But the described picture is something that I can work with.

The training with you so far was really guiding me in the right direction. I was never able before to see from outside the thoughts, outside the garbage can. I really think, that is the key. But I am trapped in an even bigger garbage can - the can that was incorporating the others I made it out of.

Do you have a magic trick for that?

[Anastacia42]

Hi,

Luckily, it not magic.

It is LOOKING with your eyes and not your thinking.

Fear and expectations prevent seeing, as does clinging to the content of your thoughts (yes, which *are* fear and expectations).

I have not made it all the way through this, but you are also experiencing doubt, Fetter #2 in the Buddhist tradition. Check this out and see if any of Pernille's videos are helpful, please.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_8N331jpA4

Be patient. You've only been looking for a few weeks. And you must relax.

Much love,

[Elettaria]

This is gold Stacy! And so much for "The first three fetters fall together." Well, my first one did not go yet. Only when I focus on it, I see what you taught me completely.

I feel so much yes to the pointings in the video. Yes to the love of experiencing! I feel, there is no rush, there is just experiencing and it's amazing.

And I see how I was already trying to dissolve doubt. A few days ago, I said to my husband: I gotta pick up dancing again - I miss being more in the body in such delight. A few months ago I started intuitively to doubt my doubt - by checking in with me, if there is really a need to think in a specific restrictive way; where is it coming from and isn't there another way? How about trying to pick up another thought about it and do something else and I really did. The video however is teaching about acceptance and I already know there is no decider.

There are essential oils (they are bypassing the mind), helping to get more into body experience, presence. I am just about to finish writing a book about it (of course I am). Maybe this can add to the work. I am actually quite sure about it.

In the last year I did change a lot in this way already: I am not invested in an outcome of actions in most cases, until I am. Toxic starting point - but I am aware of them already and can partly just laugh even though I cannot change my action and reaction in that moment. The video gave me something to do about it, I think.

The place of calm I know. I used to do and love a meditation from classical non-dual tantra, focussing on the 5 bodies, the inner one being pure consciousness pervading everything, the second last being dark spaciousness, pure calm, pure potential. I loved that one especially. I am both in love with it and afraid when it comes at me unprepared. Maybe...

You know, this explains why I get closer to the gate when I am in a public place: At home, I feel so comfortable, that I fly away with my mind more easily. Outside I need to use my senses more. This is why Osho taught meditations for the West with body exercises first, shaking, screaming, boxing, jumping - loving it - we needed to get out of our heads first.

Damn, so I have doubt!
How are you dealing with it? Do you have the sceptical doubt? I have the internal. And... Didn't you say when it comes to doubt, you don't see yourself being a helpful guide? Can we do this together? And is there a way to still work more on the first fetter or since they can actually fall together, the second should be focussed on now?

I only now, early evening, had the chance to watch the video. I will watch it again right away, to get out the tasks and hints I need again. And then I will practice. Patience I have. There is no doubt I am on the right track and it will unfold when the time has come. I can smell the solution already.

[Anastacia42]

Hi,

I'll keep trying to help.

Now no more long wordy posts of meaningless thoughts.

LOOK & report ONLY Direct Experience

ButtChair


Please LOOK for any place where your butt ends & the chair begins.

Is there any clear dividing line between them? Or only the Sensation with no clear division?


Much love,

[Elettaria]

Aye Aye. :)

Please LOOK for any place where your butt ends & the chair begins.

Is there any clear dividing line between them? Or only the sensation with no clear division?

There is no such border / dividing line. It is just sensation.

[Anastacia42]

Good.

Relax in to SEEING that. Hang out there as much as you can. Sink into it.

I did only ButtChair & saw in 3 months or so.

Loving,