There is nothing

[Dion]

Hi Jana :)

Sorry about the tardy response. Wednesdays and Thursdays tend to be pretty busy.

..are you saying, "what the heck could be trying??

Yes, that's right.
Trying just happens. It's neither good nor bad, and belongs to nothing and no-one.

Yell out when you've got more to report.
Take care!
Dion

[Dion]

Hi Jana :)
Haven't heard from you in a bit.
How's it going?
If you get the time, I'd love to hear from you.
I hope you're ok.
Dion

[CrystalBeach]

Hi Dion,

I'm sorry it's been so long, things are just pretty quiet. I did attend one of Luchano and Lubo's sessions this week. The only thing that can be reported is.. it is a lot more apparent when the efforting and patterns are being identified with and when they are just running and being seen. Also there are times when a gap is noticed and nothing needs to be said the pattern doesn't have to run.
I don't know if that makes any sense.

Which comes first the sensation in the body or the thought?

I hope you are well

jana

[CrystalBeach]

Hi Dion,

It just seems that what is happening is what is happening, here right now. When I start to draft something to say, it seems to be all stories about what is happening. I tried a couple of expirements.. not listen to the thoughts for a day, not engage and respond. When there was an urge to do something because it would be better than "now", the urge was sometimes resisted.. and then now was just what was happening and the urge disappeared.

I was sitting outside eating lunch and a snake crawled under my chair, when the sensation was felt, the body jumped and felt tight. The snake continued.. then it was seen all the cool stories about being afraid of the snake. It was clear fear wasn't there, just movement and tightness in the chest.

Hope you are well.

Jana

[Dion]

Hello Jana :)
I'm terribly sorry to have missed your last 2 mails.
I don't understand how I missed them. Please accept my apologies!

Stories about what is happening are fine.
All of these things just happening.
Can you make a list for me of what is happening "personally" in a brief 10 second period?
Sit and observe what thoughts arise in a 10 second period. If that's doable, expand it to 20 seconds, and so on.
Be absolutely vigilant. Any voice, image, narration and so on.

Thank you Jana.

[CrystalBeach]

Hi Dion

Can you make a list for me of what is happening "personally" in a brief 10 second period?
Sit and observe what thoughts arise in a 10 second period. If that's doable, expand it to 20 seconds, and so on.
Be absolutely vigilant. Any voice, image, narration and so on.

about 10 Seconds
appearance of a buzzing sound
thought - those are cicadas
thought - should I write that down?

about 20 seconds
thought - I wonder how long is 20 seconds
hearing the waves
thoughts - it is going to be warm today, it's spring
thought - am I doing this exercise right?

I wasn't too sure what you mean by "personally".

thank you
Jana

[Dion]

Hi Jana :)

Thanks. Sorry about the ambiguity. I'm fishing for something to focus on.

"Personally" in this context meant non-external stimuli. Internal, "personal" feeling stuff.

Would you be interested in another Skype face-to-face?

There's something flying under the radar, that I'm missing.
Something like, there's a voice, manner, feeling, emotion there that is a core part of identity, but is being overlooked.
And/or there's an expectation of change that is keeping you waiting for "it" to happen.

For the overlooked, please sit absolutely passively. With lack of will to initiate any form of action. See what arises. Pay particular attention to narrating voices and sensations/emotions. Bring awareness to the fact that these things are arising by themselves, and cannot be considered integral to the one who witnesses them.

Keep me updated with anything and everything that happens. I might find something in an experience that seems mundane and unremarkable.

Dion

[CrystalBeach]

Dion,

Yes I'm open to meeting again...

Maybe a sense of not "getting it" , trying to figure it out with the mind.

And/or there's an expectation of change that is keeping you waiting for "it" to happen.

yes this seems true, one sense of there is nothing to change and another that there will be a shift.

please sit absolutely passively. With lack of will to initiate any form of action. See what arises. Pay particular attention to narrating voices and sensations/emotions. Bring awareness to the fact that these things are arising by themselves, and cannot be considered integral to the one who witnesses them.

I'll continue to watch what arises and report back :)

jana

[Dion]

Hi Jana :)

We could have a face-to-face at about 6pm your time. That'll be 8am my time.
How about your 6pm Friday night?

[CrystalBeach]

Hi Dion,

Yes 6 PM Friday works for me

Jana

[Dion]

great :)
See you then.

[CrystalBeach]

Hi Dion

I hope you are well and had a good hike with your son. I have been sitting and inquiring and just doing regular life stuff.

I didn't watch youtube or social media for 5 days. It definitly feels good to be off of the constant seeking and filling time. I seem to wobble between a feeling of expansive and quiet where I can sit and do nothing.. and a contracted icky feeling in the chest. Mostly when sitting it feels open and expanded, but there are definitly times when it feels like there is a little me there that needs to plan "my life".

Jana

[Dion]

Hi Jana :)

Mostly when sitting it feels open and expanded, but there are definitely times when it feels like there is a little me there that needs to plan "my life"

Do the "open and expanded feeling", and the "plan my life" feeling, and the "contracted icky feeling in the chest", arise by themselves?
Is there a feeling that one or some of these feelings are correct or good or indicative of success?
Is there any form of value judgement taking place regarding these feelings?
If so, what is it that makes value judgements regarding these feelings?
When these experiences take place and then pass, what is it that is witness to these experiences, and then remains upon their passing?

If you can, it would be useful to report more often, even if it seems dull or un-remarkable.
If there's a problem doing that, it would also be useful to explain why.

[CrystalBeach]

Do the "open and expanded feeling", and the "plan my life" feeling, and the "contracted icky feeling in the chest", arise by themselves?

Yes these feelings just arise -I can't predict them. For example, walking on the beach this morning, it was just the sounds of the ocean and I was picking up shells, it was really a beautiful morning and suddenly I had thoughts of an argument with an ex from years ago, it felt quite sickening. But there was nothing that reminded me of this person or that instance, it just randomly appeared.

Is there a feeling that one or some of these feelings are correct or good or indicative of success?

Expanded and open definitly feels better so I want to call it good and contraction feels heavy and my mind says things like "why" is this coming up again?

Is there any form of value judgement taking place regarding these feelings?

Yes I think for the negative feelings, why is this coming up again? If I was really practicing "right" this wouldn't happen.

If so, what is it that makes value judgements regarding these feelings?

The value judgments are more thoughts -thoughts referring to thoughts.

When these experiences take place and then pass, what is it that is witness to these experiences, and then remains upon their passing?

it feels like a stillness that is steady, but I don't know what "it" is.

If you can, it would be useful to report more often, even if it seems dull or un-remarkable.
If there's a problem doing that, it would also be useful to explain why.

I can post every day - I think it often just seems like it's "not important" etc..
Thank you so much!
Jana

[Dion]

Hi Jana :)

Nice to hear from you.

Just as an aside...

I had thoughts of an argument with an ex from years ago, it felt quite sickening. But there was nothing that reminded me of this person or that instance, it just randomly appeared.

There is an opportunity there to transcend or liberate that memory and that feeling.
If something like that pops up, as much as you're able, stop and bring all of your attention to it. Explore all of the nuances of physical sensation, and broadly the experience itself. With an attitude of acceptance and calm relaxation. Like a scientific observation, but without forcing the objectivity. It's being felt as something subjective, so it should be allowed on those terms.
Bear in mind, it's easier said than done! Just as best as you're able, without forcing it.

Yes I think for the negative feelings, why is this coming up again? If I was really practicing "right" this wouldn't happen.

Nice observation.
Can you control the "doing it right?"
If you could "do it right", would unpleasant things never happen?

Thanks, Jana :)