Into the great wide open...

[whiterabbit]

Thank you. I intend to observe my direct experience involving separate self and report back.

[warissem]

Hi

Waiting for your answers

Warissem

[whiterabbit]

It is weird—I tried to locate the separate self in direct experience, but couldn't find it.

What I previously thought was the "I", I could now break apart into direct experiences:

• sensation (around the eyes and temples)
• color (seemingly rooted in the eyes; there even when the eyes are closed in darker tones)
• occasional mental color and sound (reflecting upon what is happening).

And when I use "I" here, I mean the appearance of mental color and sound that reflects, detects familiarity and change—that thinks.

I haven't given up though... I want to find that separate self somewhere... 😂

[warissem]

Good evening

It is weird—I tried to locate the separate self in direct experience, but couldn't find it.

You cannot find something which does not exist.

What I previously thought was the "I", I could now break apart into direct experiences:
sensation (around the eyes and temples)
color (seemingly rooted in the eyes; there even when the eyes are closed in darker tones)
occasional mental color and sound (reflecting upon what is happening).
And when I use "I" here, I mean the appearance of mental color and sound that reflects, detects familiarity and change—that thinks.

You have done the exercise about thoughts : is there a you which is thinking or thoughts appear from nowhere ?

I haven't given up though... I want to find that separate self somewhere...

You will never find it outside of thought. Can you find a unicorn ?

There is another exercise for you. It will help.

Close your eyes and imagine holding a watermelon in your hands.
Imagine it so vividly that you can feel its weight, the shape and texture of the skin.
Hold it there, sensing it.
Then open your eyes.

What happened to the melon?
How about the sensation that was so believable?
Was there ever a melon in ‘reality’?
Was there an appearing mental image?
Was the content of the mental image (the melon) ‘real’?

The thoughts and mental images are real only as actual experience of thoughts and mental images, their appearance cannot be denied. However their ‘contents’, what they are about (like the watermelon) are not ‘real’, they are just fantasies.
Can you see this?

Best for you

Warissem

[whiterabbit]

is there a you which is thinking or thoughts appear from nowhere ?

Yes, thoughts just seem to appear. Even decisions... they just seem to appear as thoughts. What I many posts ago described as active I, the verbal (or non-verbal) mental decision in the morning to "get out of bed now", it also just appears.

The thoughts and mental images are real only as actual experience of thoughts and mental images, their appearance cannot be denied. However their ‘contents’, what they are about (like the watermelon) are not ‘real’, they are just fantasies.
Can you see this?

Yes. I think you just helped me get back to a place I've been before. I now see that direct experience is the foundation. What my earlier thoughts described as "managing", "deciding", and "reflection" of the "active I" is just more thinking happening. Thoughts are doing their dance, more thoughts emerge, and action seems to happen. From direct experience, I can see these thoughts, and also colors, sensations, and so on... but I can't do anything, I can't actively think anything, I can just experience.

Direct experience is all there is. It happens.

Now... my intuition tells me something isn't done yet... There is a thought: there is an imagination of a difference between the direct experience here and the direct experience of warissem. A thought says, we don't experience the same colors and sensations. There are two different direct experiences. Is this a thought to ignore, since it can't be seen in direct experience, and thus it is fundamentally unknowable? All that can be known is the direct experience here and now?

[warissem]

Hi

Yes, thoughts just seem to appear. Even decisions... they just seem to appear as thoughts. What I many posts ago described as active I, the verbal (or non-verbal) mental decision in the morning to "get out of bed now", it also just appears.

Yes, decision is a thought arising. Good point.

Yes. I think you just helped me get back to a place I've been before. I now see that direct experience is the foundation. What my earlier thoughts described as "managing", "deciding", and "reflection" of the "active I" is just more thinking happening. Thoughts are doing their dance, more thoughts emerge, and action seems to happen. From direct experience, I can see these thoughts, and also colors, sensations, and so on... but I can't do anything, I can't actively think anything, I can just experience.

Great job, you are in a good track.

Direct experience is all there is. It happens.

Yes.

Now... my intuition tells me something isn't done yet... There is a thought: there is an imagination of a difference between the direct experience here and the direct experience of warissem. A thought says, we don't experience the same colors and sensations. There are two different direct experiences. Is this a thought to ignore, since it can't be seen in direct experience, and thus it is fundamentally unknowable? All that can be known is the direct experience here and now?

All thoughts are just thoughts, warissem is a thought. Yes, there is experience here now.
Now, I invite you to look at the experiencer : is there an experiencer ?
Try to find an experiencer, a doer in all the activities during the whole day. Look at direct experience without leaning on thoughts.

Best for you

Warissem

[whiterabbit]

I don't know what an experiencer is. I don't know who is answering these questions.
I feel confused.
I'm aware of sensation... sound, color, touch. There are no concepts.

[warissem]

Good morning

I don't know what an experiencer is. I don't know who is answering these questions.
I feel confused.
I'm aware of sensation... sound, color, touch. There are no concepts.

You are using concepts to write your post. Concepts and thoughts are helpful for communication. Now, what about the concept "I" that is confused : where does it point to in direct experience ?
Who or what is confused ?

Look.

Warissem

[whiterabbit]

Now, what about the concept "I" that is confused : where does it point to in direct experience ?

"I" is a sound and sign, just like "apple".

In the case of "apple", we did an exercise with an "apple" and saw that it points to a familiar direct experience: color, touch, smell, taste.

In the case of "I", I'm not certain what it means in direct experience. I'm doing two experiments to understand:
1. I'm looking at an old photo with "bodies" on them. I recognize "I" and I recognize "other". There is something familiar about "I", just like there is something familiar about "apple".
2. I took an "onion" and I'm looking into the mirror with the onion in the hand. There is "I" and there is "onion". There is "onion" and there is "I".

Who or what is confused ?

"Confusion" is a sign (word, sound, color). I don't know exactly what is means to be confused in direct experience, but there is something familiar about it. A bit like the experience of letting go, having nowhere to hold on to, floating.

[warissem]

Good evening

In the case of "I", I'm not certain what it means in direct experience. I'm doing two experiments to understand:
1. I'm looking at an old photo with "bodies" on them. I recognize "I" and I recognize "other". There is something familiar about "I", just like there is something familiar about "apple".

In direct experience, images or colors are seen. Have you seen an "I" ?

2. I took an "onion" and I'm looking into the mirror with the onion in the hand. There is "I" and there is "onion". There is "onion" and there is "I".

The same comment : mirror reflexions are seen as colors labeled onion and body but there is no "I".

Do you see clearly thet "i" is a concept pointing to no actual object ?
You have done the exercise about the body : is "I" a body sensations ?

"Confusion" is a sign (word, sound, color). I don't know exactly what is means to be confused in direct experience, but there is something familiar about it. A bit like the experience of letting go, having nowhere to hold on to, floating.

I have not asked about confusion or its meaning. I asked :who or what is confused ? Is there a separate self which confused, someone who is confused?
Is the body confused ?
Is awareness (being aware) confused ?

Ponder on the questions before giving answers.

Best for you

Warissem

[whiterabbit]

I have not asked about confusion or its meaning.

Correct. You have not asked about confusion or its meaning.

The meaning of "I" and "confusion" (as seen here) is explained because I want to understand if we are pointing to the same experience when we use certain words. Sometimes I think I understand what you mean, and sometimes I wonder if we use the same words, but are pointing to different things. If I cannot understand your instructions, I cannot follow them.

I will reread what you wrote and reflect on what you might have meant.

[warissem]

Hi

I use simple words. They mean what is in the dictionary. No need for complication.

[whiterabbit]

When you use the word "I", what do you mean?

[warissem]

Hi

I can say only that "I" is still helpful to communicate. You have to do the inquiry : look at direct experience (seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching or sensations). Look at this "I" which is confused. If you find it, describe it for me. So simple. Go to look without what you know, without thought stories.

Where you practicing the exercises or where you answering through a logical approach ? There is a difference between walking from town to town and doing it on a map. If you don't do the Looking at direct experience, there will be no change.

Warissem

[whiterabbit]

Here is what is seen while sitting on the chair now:

• There is presence (like the sky).
• There is sensation (like clouds): sound, color, touch
• There are thoughts (like clouds): color and sound forms about sensation and thought.