Thank you Warissem!
Just want to share some observations:
I was wondering why thoughts seem to be located in the head area. In daily life without looking closer, sensations on the head like pulsating get connected to the thinking process. So if there is thinking and I ask myself "Where is this originating from?" instinctively it seems plausible that it is the sensations on the head. But it is just pressure, pulsating, warmth and so on. It has no connection to thinking.
And even this sensations which seem to be located on the "head" looking closer they don't have a location. It is more obvious with closed eyes than with eyes open.
And what I was checking more often today is if is possible to separate the knowing of "pulsating", "pressure" and "warmth" from the act of feeling itself. It seems that there is I feeling pulsating. Looking more closely there is just feeling of a quality of "pulsating", an I is not really in there. Maybe more a knowing instead of an I. So a knowing of "pulsating". There seems to be a quality of "knowing" and a quality of "pulsating" which can be looked separately. But then the knowing of knowing is something different than just this "pulsating". But can there be a "pulsating" without the knowing of it?
kind regards
Don't know
Re: Don't know
Hi Buddho
Continue to look at you, a separate self through different angles : are you a doer ? are you the experiencer ? are you the decision maker ? are you a thinker ? Is Buddho here in any shape or form ?
Ponder on each question and elobarate on your answers.
You are doing a good job.
Best for you
Warissem
You are welcomeThank you Warissem!
Yes, sensation is a sensation, a thought is a thought.Just want to share some observations:
I was wondering why thoughts seem to be located in the head area. In daily life without looking closer, sensations on the head like pulsating get connected to the thinking process. So if there is thinking and I ask myself "Where is this originating from?" instinctively it seems plausible that it is the sensations on the head. But it is just pressure, pulsating, warmth and so on. It has no connection to thinking.
Yes, well seen.And even this sensations which seem to be located on the "head" looking closer they don't have a location. It is more obvious with closed eyes than with eyes open.
Yes, there is sensation but there is no I in direct experience, it is only a thought.And what I was checking more often today is if is possible to separate the knowing of "pulsating", "pressure" and "warmth" from the act of feeling itself. It seems that there is I feeling pulsating. Looking more closely there is just feeling of a quality of "pulsating", an I is not really in there.
No, look closer, is the pulsating, the sensation separate from the knowing of it ?Maybe more a knowing instead of an I. So a knowing of "pulsating". There seems to be a quality of "knowing" and a quality of "pulsating" which can be looked separately.
There is no other knowing, there is one knowing knowing itself or awareness (being aware) aware of itself.But then the knowing of knowing is something different than just this "pulsating".
Answer to yourself.But can there be a "pulsating" without the knowing of it?
Continue to look at you, a separate self through different angles : are you a doer ? are you the experiencer ? are you the decision maker ? are you a thinker ? Is Buddho here in any shape or form ?
Ponder on each question and elobarate on your answers.
You are doing a good job.
Best for you
Warissem
Re: Don't know
Hello Warissem!
kind regards
It seams reasonable to say knowing took the pulsating as its object first and then took knowing as its object in the next moment. In direct experience it shows itself that in the "moment of pulsating" there is only pulsating and in the "moment of knowing" there is only knowing. The knowing of this moment itself is not knowable. But the knowing which can be known now seems like an echo or so which is already passing away.No, look closer, is the pulsating, the sensation separate from the knowing of it ?
Not in this moment, there is only doing happeningare you a doer ?
No, there is only the experience of THIS.are you the experiencer ?
No, in the moment of deciding the decision is already taken.are you the decision maker ?
No, there is only this question, looking for a thinker is happening, none can be found.are you a thinker ?
No, it's only my nickname :-)Is Buddho here in any shape or form ?
kind regards
Re: Don't know
Hi Buddho
Great. These are the questions which are usually posed to finalise the dialog and see of there is still something which is not clear yet.
Ponder on the questions and elaborate your answers on each of them.
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
5) Describe decision,
intention,
free will,
choice and control.
Give examples from experience.
What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
6) Anything to add?
Best for you
Warissem
Great. These are the questions which are usually posed to finalise the dialog and see of there is still something which is not clear yet.
Ponder on the questions and elaborate your answers on each of them.
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
5) Describe decision,
intention,
free will,
choice and control.
Give examples from experience.
What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
6) Anything to add?
Best for you
Warissem
Re: Don't know
Hi Warissem,
thats quite a lot. Today I'll just explore 1 and 2. The others questions I'll investigate the following days.
The idea of a separate self is that there is somewhere a core center called "I". This I /me is thought to live a relatively independent life on its own. All sensory input is believed to be collected in this unchanging core. It is believed to have a free will to chose, decide and control what to think and what to do. So it is its thoughts, its decisions, its actions, its feelings which are believed to come out of its unchanging core. In general we believe that this I has a body and that the I is hidden somewhere in the brain. Some believe that its I exists separate from its body, maybe in another sphere. It is believed that this I can control some of the bodies actions.
From the I-perspective the illusory believe of a separate self shows like this: I sit with "my body" here and look into a separate world which is believed to be out there. But leaving this thought generated idea about "Me and my body" aside, in direct experience there is neither a "Me", nor "my body" and not even an "entity of a body" to be found. There are colors and shapes and sensations. Impulses to act arise, actions take place. Thoughts come and go. Some thoughts seem to comment what is happening: "I am writing something". The label of "me" is put on it after it already happened. "I am experiencing this" is also only a thought. There is a quality of knowing / experiencing here. But it is not experiencing anything. That this knowing is knowing itself is only thinking or an idea not an experience. What is experienced is only THIS. There is no knowing of this. Knowing is different from THIS. Its only THIS.
The question about if there has been an I in the past can't be answered through direct seeing. Past is only thinking and memories. But even answering the question through thinking and memory it seems obvious that "reality" was not working fundamentally different than it does now. And it most likely will never be fundamentally different in the future.
kind regards
thats quite a lot. Today I'll just explore 1 and 2. The others questions I'll investigate the following days.
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
The idea of a separate self is that there is somewhere a core center called "I". This I /me is thought to live a relatively independent life on its own. All sensory input is believed to be collected in this unchanging core. It is believed to have a free will to chose, decide and control what to think and what to do. So it is its thoughts, its decisions, its actions, its feelings which are believed to come out of its unchanging core. In general we believe that this I has a body and that the I is hidden somewhere in the brain. Some believe that its I exists separate from its body, maybe in another sphere. It is believed that this I can control some of the bodies actions.
From the I-perspective the illusory believe of a separate self shows like this: I sit with "my body" here and look into a separate world which is believed to be out there. But leaving this thought generated idea about "Me and my body" aside, in direct experience there is neither a "Me", nor "my body" and not even an "entity of a body" to be found. There are colors and shapes and sensations. Impulses to act arise, actions take place. Thoughts come and go. Some thoughts seem to comment what is happening: "I am writing something". The label of "me" is put on it after it already happened. "I am experiencing this" is also only a thought. There is a quality of knowing / experiencing here. But it is not experiencing anything. That this knowing is knowing itself is only thinking or an idea not an experience. What is experienced is only THIS. There is no knowing of this. Knowing is different from THIS. Its only THIS.
The question about if there has been an I in the past can't be answered through direct seeing. Past is only thinking and memories. But even answering the question through thinking and memory it seems obvious that "reality" was not working fundamentally different than it does now. And it most likely will never be fundamentally different in the future.
kind regards
Re: Don't know
Good morning
It is a pleasure to read your answers. Take your time for the other questions.
Warissem
It is a pleasure to read your answers. Take your time for the other questions.
Warissem
Re: Don't know
Hi Warissem,
today is a good day to answer question 3:
It feels liberating to see this. The mind gets brighter, clearer and stiller.
The difference from before I started this dialogue is the conviction that this clear seeing can be easier accessible. Maybe delusion is not that "substantial" as thought before. But still I know the work is not done. The knowledge has not sunk into the depth of every "cell" of this mind-body system.
The last few days were unfolding very smoothly, like there is less "sand in the gears" of life. The mind stiller even in busy everyday life. More in connection with the moment.
kind regards
today is a good day to answer question 3:
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
It feels liberating to see this. The mind gets brighter, clearer and stiller.
The difference from before I started this dialogue is the conviction that this clear seeing can be easier accessible. Maybe delusion is not that "substantial" as thought before. But still I know the work is not done. The knowledge has not sunk into the depth of every "cell" of this mind-body system.
The last few days were unfolding very smoothly, like there is less "sand in the gears" of life. The mind stiller even in busy everyday life. More in connection with the moment.
kind regards
Re: Don't know
Hi Buddho
I am waiting for the other answers. Meanwhile continue to look at the flow of life.
Warissem
I am waiting for the other answers. Meanwhile continue to look at the flow of life.
Warissem
Re: Don't know
Hi Warissem,
here are the answers for the rest of the questions:
Maybe it is the seeing the whole process of investigation from a different perspective. That there is nothing personal in it. The expectation was to find and see something which can be pointed upon. Maybe to be able to point to a Me that is actually not existing, which is paradox.
It is interesting to see how this searching is taking place. There is no me here who is doing the search. What does searching mean? Is it not to choose and select where to look? I can not really choose and direct and control. It is only impulses and actions taking place in the here and now.
All there is is seeing, hearing, tasting, feeling, smelling and thinking. None of these can be the Me. There can be a thought of "This is the Me". But that is only an idea which is referring to nothing.
A thing is not really the controller of anything else because nothing can move or act by itself. No thing can try to control something else for the same reason. So what does clinging and letting go of clinging actually mean? Clinging means to see something as "I, me, mine". But there is no I to be found. So also clinging is not I, not me not mine. There is nothing to cling to, there is nothing to let go of.
Decision, intention and free will are all based on the idea of an independent existing I which "lives a life on its own". But in direct investigation there is no I to be found which exists independently of something else. For example: am I now free to write what "I want"? There are impulses of intention arising without me having chosen them or agreed for them to arise. The impulses can be known. But it is not me who knows them. I did not agree or chose for the knowing to arise. After the impulse there is an action taken place. There can be an impulse to suppress the first impulse. But I didn't create this impulse to suppress either. So to say that there is choice and control and free will would be to project an independent I into this whole process.
So what am I responsible for? To say I am responsible for something would mean I have control over something. That is not really the case. But to say I don't have responsibility for anything would also imply an I which is not able to control anything. That is also not the case. So one could say that I am responsible for nothing but at the same time I am also responsible for everything.
Not now. But maybe the next days?
kind regards
here are the answers for the rest of the questions:
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
Maybe it is the seeing the whole process of investigation from a different perspective. That there is nothing personal in it. The expectation was to find and see something which can be pointed upon. Maybe to be able to point to a Me that is actually not existing, which is paradox.
It is interesting to see how this searching is taking place. There is no me here who is doing the search. What does searching mean? Is it not to choose and select where to look? I can not really choose and direct and control. It is only impulses and actions taking place in the here and now.
All there is is seeing, hearing, tasting, feeling, smelling and thinking. None of these can be the Me. There can be a thought of "This is the Me". But that is only an idea which is referring to nothing.
A thing is not really the controller of anything else because nothing can move or act by itself. No thing can try to control something else for the same reason. So what does clinging and letting go of clinging actually mean? Clinging means to see something as "I, me, mine". But there is no I to be found. So also clinging is not I, not me not mine. There is nothing to cling to, there is nothing to let go of.
5) Describe decision,
intention,
free will,
choice and control.
Give examples from experience.
What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
Decision, intention and free will are all based on the idea of an independent existing I which "lives a life on its own". But in direct investigation there is no I to be found which exists independently of something else. For example: am I now free to write what "I want"? There are impulses of intention arising without me having chosen them or agreed for them to arise. The impulses can be known. But it is not me who knows them. I did not agree or chose for the knowing to arise. After the impulse there is an action taken place. There can be an impulse to suppress the first impulse. But I didn't create this impulse to suppress either. So to say that there is choice and control and free will would be to project an independent I into this whole process.
So what am I responsible for? To say I am responsible for something would mean I have control over something. That is not really the case. But to say I don't have responsibility for anything would also imply an I which is not able to control anything. That is also not the case. So one could say that I am responsible for nothing but at the same time I am also responsible for everything.
6) Anything to add?
Not now. But maybe the next days?
kind regards
Re: Don't know
Hi Buddho
Glad to read your answers. I invite other guides to read your answers, they could ask questions to which you have to answer.
Are you interested in guiding here on the forum ?
Best wishes
Warissem
Glad to read your answers. I invite other guides to read your answers, they could ask questions to which you have to answer.
Are you interested in guiding here on the forum ?
Best wishes
Warissem
Re: Don't know
Hi Warissem,
yes sure!
Thank you very much!
kind regards
yes sure!
Thank you very much!
kind regards
Re: Don't know
Hi Buddho
You will be invited soon to LU facebook groups. Meanwhile, read "how to become a guide" here :
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=1458
Good luck
Warissem
You will be invited soon to LU facebook groups. Meanwhile, read "how to become a guide" here :
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=1458
Good luck
Warissem
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