The Gate

Hi

I feel that you are very willing to investigate all this. So part of my job is to get out of the way and only ask necessary questions. To an extent you can take the lead.

Yes, thank you for saying that. I feel I am very willing too. Lets continue the nice dialogue, pointings, questions and see what happens.

Is there anything. Any doubt or niggle, however big or small that you would like to chat about? Anything that doesn't make sense?

The thing is, I have read and listened to tons of material about non-duality that give answers to my doubts and niggles.
I could still ask because the niggles come up from time to time, for example about stories. Are all stories not real? Is there no absolute difference between the story of unicorns, Santa Claus and dragons vs the story of e.g. my life, gravity or the claim that if you drop a stone in the water it will cause some effect in the water. What about karma, is that real?
I could ask you this, and I guess I am asking your view on this, although I think I know the answer, that yes, all stories are just thoughts, and not what they seem to be. To answer these questions you could spend infinite lifetimes about what the actual meaning, labels and concepts in the questions say. The absolute truth however, can never be experienced indirectly or concluded through an endless row of thoughts. Still, some stories seem to work and some stories seem not to work, and some stories you can even trust, it seems. This is a bit confusing.


All the best

Torgeir

Hi Torgeir

. Lets continue the nice dialogue, pointings, questions and see what happens.

Yes. Good idea. We will do that.

. I could still ask because the niggles come up from time to time, for example about stories. Are all stories not real? Is there no absolute difference between the story of unicorns, Santa Claus and dragons vs the story of e.g. my life, gravity or the claim that if you drop a stone in the water it will cause some effect in the water.

I understand.

This seems to be a question about what ideas are imagined to point to do something real or not ?

The Unicorn or Santa thing has been used as pointer that can sometimes work very rapidly to expose the story-like nature of belief in a "my life".

In one sense theories about gravity could be argued to "hold good" because if I drop a spanner on my foot something that appears to be "consequences" or "effects" can be noticed, for sure. Even measurements and numbers could be used to seem to prove the apparent 'reality' of 'gravity'. On one level,no proof (beyond a sore foot) is needed.

Hence the world is possible. Buildings, roads, and everything designed. I think Buddha is supposed to have said "with our thoughts we make the world"

However all this is 'borrowed' from the realm of thoughts and ideas, imagination, conceptualisation. "Gravity" appears to hold good (until or unless it doesn't).. But there is no direct experience of gravity because it is an idea, a useful idea sometimes, but an idea.

For someone alive before Isaac Newton there would be familiarity with the real experience of "apple falling on my head" as a sensation, or collection of immediate sensations, sights, sounds, and feel.. But "Gravity" would not have been imagined to be a thing at that time. There would have been no perception of Gravity as an entity. If this were a cave man, thousands of years earlier, there would still have been direct sense experience but "apple" may not have been part of his vocabulary and not perceived as such either. "Gravity" is a way of speaking. Do you see this?

Karma Is also an idea. Like 'self' it cannot be found within pure sensations as they happen. There can be lots of ideas and beliefs ABOUT Gravity and Karma.

. Still, some stories seem to work and some stories seem not to work, and some stories you can even trust, it seems. This is a bit confusing.

Well what is it that is doing the trusting or not trusting?

Is there something 'separate' from everything that's happening?

Sit naturally for some minutes and relax. Notice Heart. Give heart a big hug and tell it that you love it very much. You could ask heart if it has any wisdom that it would like to share about trusting ideas?. If heart answers thank it very much.

Love

Jon

Thank you

I will try let my heart take the lead and you are more than welcome to come with suggestions and questions like before.

I think your answer to my question was beautiful.

The feeling from the heart seem to manage the trusting. But with a busy and strong mind it can get painfully quite, and analytical and logical thinking can also be very persuading.

This exercise helped. I can trust what feels good in my heart.


Love

I see more clearly now what feeling is and what thinking is. Sometimes I say thinking when feeling seem to be a better word. A strong feeling is more than a thought. It might be the heart calling as well as a thought.

That said, I don't think or feel there is any separation between the feeling, trusting and environment or someone doing it. Trusting and feeling just happens. There is still "I" and "me" thoughts about the body doing the action or thinking/commenting, but the trusting is happening directly as a whole with the environment. It is trusting "itself" in one movement.

Love

Torgeir

Hi Torgeir.

. There is still "I" and "me" thoughts about the body doing the action or thinking/commenting, but the trusting is happening directly as a whole with the environment. It is trusting "itself" in one movement.

.

How beautiful.

I'm glad the exercise with heart was helpful.

I don't really have too many questions. How is it going today?

I may have asked you how things happen? But it may be worth asking again because many people "grok" no self" but still believe that they make things happen.

Love

Jon

Hi

Since last time I have felt light and had mostly enjoyed the experiences. I had some weird dream and some purging it seems last night. Maybe something is different.

It seems like there is a person walking through life that make things happen (work, cooking, sleeping, etc). But only as a thought or a subtle belief that is «sitting» on my shoulder, and this person is never detected it seems. Just more things happening.

I don’t know what to ask right now.

Love

Torgeir

Hi Torgeir

. Since last time I have felt light and had mostly enjoyed the experiences. I had some weird dream and some purging it seems last night. Maybe something is different.

Well, not that I believe or don't believe in astrology but all the same it is eclipse in Scorpio today. ;-)

But feeling light sounds good.

Well, around about this point in the inquiry we ask six questions that can be helpful. In particular these can show up anything that needs more investigation. If you feel ready I could send these to you?

Love

Jon

Hi

Well, not that I believe or don't believe in astrology but all the same it is eclipse in Scorpio today. ;-)

Nice, I haven't looked much into astrology for a while, but when you mention it.. I am apparently a Scorpio rising I am told ;-)

Yes. I think why not start with the six questions now. I feel I am ready to look at them.


Again,
Thank you very much for this


Love

Torgeir

Hello Torgeir

You're very welcome.

Here are the six questions. Please feel free to split your answers into smaller groups if you like? Two at a time or three is fine

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Give in your own words what the illusion of separate self is and how it shows up in experience. Also, through your inquiry, what is different now?

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

5) a) Describe decision,
intention,
free will,
choice and control.
What makes things happen? How does it work?

Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

6) Anything to add?

If any of this does not make sense please just ask and I will try to clarify. Have a go at answering and we can look at what you have written.


Love


Jon

Hello Jon

Here are the six questions. Please feel free to split your answers into smaller groups if you like? Two at a time or three is fine

Thank you for the six questions. I will follow your suggestion.

1)

Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

Yes. As an idea. As words. A separate entity 'self', 'me', 'I' is from my experience a thought mixed with a feeling. Nothing in the experience reveal me as a separate entity, and that means that it is not in any way, shape or form found or revealed to be true. 'Separate entity', 'self', 'me' or 'I' are labels, words, descriptions of something. In direct experience through thinking, seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting and sensing there has never been a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form, ever.

2)

Give in your own words what the illusion of separate self is and how it shows up in experience. Also, through your inquiry, what is different now?

The illusion of a separate self are believes and a feeling that the content of thoughts are real and 'mine'. That the thought 'self', 'me', 'I' or 'separate self' is real. When this belief is not believed longer, the illusion dissolves. It shows up in experience as a commentator that talks to the owner of the body, which is given a name. This name is just a thought. So is the owner and the body. The only thing that is real is the direct experience of a thought, not the content of the thought.

The difference between now and before Liberation Unleashed is emptiness. There is no need to grasp, hold on to, or avoid thoughts. Thoughts are empty. The content of a thought is always a new thought. There also seem to be less resistance with life as it is, because life is as it is, not because of me. There is a shift from feeling like "I am doing things" to just direct experience. That doesn't mean thinking has stopped or pondering or worrying has dropped, it just means that there is no problem with that, although there seem to be less worrying in the experience.


Love

Torgeir

Great Torgeir

Looking forward to reading the next one's

Jon

3)

How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It feels good. It feels light. It feels right, "aah.. just can relax in this", even though there still are challenges and tension.
And frustration.. And doubt.. Like, have I really shifted? is there really anything difference? Yesterday evening I had an episode of frustration, anger and a lot of why questions boiling up. Also drank some alcohol which probably fueled it up. Questions like:
- Why there seemingly is a world where me (and other people) are blind to their own true nature, not living up to their potential, and apparently causing harm to others, themselves and nature, ecosystems, climate change, etc. It feels like such a waste of time and energy even though almost every non-duality teacher out there says it is perfect.
- Why not wake up to deep liberation and realization right now and be the most authentic, real version of my self right now? Why wait?
- Why do we have to go through so much pain and suffering?
- Why cant I feel the same love and beauty as I have experienced on MDMA more often and naturally?
- Why am I seemingly one out of 8 billion people living as this person?
- Why cant I ask why questions?

I know these are thoughts and beliefs, but yesterday it felt good to believe them and write them. It felt good to be angry about this.

So, now I am a bit confused about where I am actually in this "process". However, it has been a week with more clarity and enjoyment, and relaxation than I am used to. Also feels like I am less fixating on things, and more free, flowing with the environment.

4)

What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

This is interesting. I don't feel I have been pushed over. But it also feels new and fresh.
I think the heart exercise was the last thing that made me look and which shifted something.
I could let go and trust the environment. Know that everything is okey. It is managing itself in a way.

Also, it was good to read your answer to the story paradox and let this question drop out to someone, which was a bit nagging from time to time.

I also liked your question about if I ever had the experience of not being awake.

Hi Torgeir

Thanks, again, for your latest answers.

I'm glad that a few questions came up. You've been very honest and that's a good thing, because it's your enquiry. We can look at the issues you've raised.

I won't interrupt the flow of your answers right now. Let's consider what you've written once you've answered the last two. The general tenor of your replies is very good.

Love

Jon

Thank you. Here are my last two answers to you questions.

5) a)

Describe decision,
intention,
free will,
choice and control.
What makes things happen? How does it work?

Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.

Decision is in this experience a force. A pull. Maybe an energetic sensation in the body combined with a strong belief or thought that feels like an act. It feels like the focus from the attention is very narrow, but it feels empty.

Intention, however, feels more real. It feels more deep than decision. Almost like the intention is prior to the decision. It also more subtle. A very subtle belief or sensation in the body. It doesn't need to be related to a decision. It can stay there without being analyzed and looked at.

Free will is the freedom from taking decisions. Its freedom from a doer. Free will is nature itself which is the only thing that "knows" what to do about anything.

Choice is options. Something that seems like a 50 % 50 % decision without the action, or feels like uncertainty about what the right action is.

Control is the thing that makes the choice into a decision. It can feel like a 'me', having control of the situation or environment, but it is in fact just a choice that evaporates into a decision.
Control is also passive. It can be felt when there is awareness or presence. Actually, it seems like control is the opposite of what I thought about control before. Control is more passive or silent. It is peaceful and free. It is similar to free will, but control feels more "bossing" like there is a doer there. I am not a fan of the word. You could also say that it is an experience where your intention is in alignment with the environment. When you loose control, you feel you are unable to affect the experience according to your intentions.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

It is tempting to say that nothing makes things happen and that it doesn't work, it is or just happens. But it feels like there is at least some kind of infinite movement behind all that happens, but even that just happens. It works by its own brilliance and intelligence. There is a feeling that things I thought didn't work before is part of something bigger that works. That said, it seems things are orchestrated in a helpful way sometimes and I definitely could imagine things to be a lot more difficult to make things not work. Why did I drink alcohol on Friday? If it happened it worked because I am writing this sentence right now, and I cannot blame myself and see another way this could have gone. In that way it is perfect. And when an intention to make some food is in my awareness it works to decide which food I need, and choose the right amount of ingredients. It also works to make a wrong decision, because then that ends up in something unexpected, which is not necessarily "wrong".

b)

What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

I am responsible for my decisions. And my intention is related to what I feel responsible for. If my intention is to never drink alcohol again, I feel responsible if I drink alcohol. If I don't have this intention, then I don't feel responsible for drinking alcohol, even though I am responsible. In the end, there is nothing to be responsible for, because the intention is not a choice, it is more like a feeling in the heart, which is perfectly synchronized with the environment. A response happens when there is awareness and presence in whatever is happening. No one chooses this response or the awareness and presence. It is being able to respond (Response(able)). Some are not able and some are, it seems. A reaction is missing the awareness and presence, but is not necessarily less responsible as a person. It is a paradox it seems. That is why I feel that intention is a good place to start when you want to find out how responsible someone are.

6)

Anything to add?

I think I was hoping for a more radical shift, although I was trying to not have any expectations. And that is part of the shift as well, not having any expectations anymore (there is still some like expecting to eat lunch today). I don't think this is the end, so there might be a gradual unfolding.. And still, that is also just a thought! The difference in the experience seem subtle. But there is some kind of shift. The thought loops have stopped it seems, or happens less. It feels great to know that everything can be a belief until examined more closely, or experience the truth directly through the 5 senses, and Angelo DiLullo's video today (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuHy3Nq ... lwaysAwake) is a perfect description of what I have come in contact with. And it still doesn't feel as ecstatic as I was hoping for. But that is okey. I know that is just a thought, which is ecstatic enough in itself if I look close enough.

Looking forward to your reply


Love

Torgeir

Oh wow Torgeir!

There is a lot here.. I am going to read your answers through a few times and get back to you, if that's ok?

Love

Jon