questions for life

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warissem
Posts: 2830
Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 6:45 pm

Re: questions for life

Postby warissem » Thu Jul 14, 2022 4:44 pm

Good evening
No I can't. It's just a feeling.
A feeling is a sensation with a concept put on it : in this case a sensation called me. A sensation is a sensation : sometimes the same sensation in the body is called happiness, another time it is called fear.

The sense that I am responsible for my actions.

Stress. Thinking how to do things best. But it is not really expressed in the body.
Then all this is a thought story : just don’t believe these thoughts. It is conditioning which is operating, due to education, society, religion or whatever.

No it's not a fear of being not responsible. It's the opposite. It's making judgments on myself. It's this "I should have" or "how will I manage this or that". That these judgments are happening on their own accord seems strange. But those judgments are clearly thoughts. I would like to loose them.
Yes, you see that judgments are thoughts arising without any thinker. Such thoughts are arising, as I said before, because of old habits and conditioning. Just look at thoughts, judgments, … as you look at clouds : nothing personal, they come they go.

If there is no "me" judgment doesn't make sense. Not for me not for others. It's just life happening. And being angry with my thoughts is also just happening.
There is no you, no separate self at this very moment but thought says the opposite. Don’t lean on thoughts, come back to direct experience.

I feel lost. I can't get rid of these "I"- feeling, but it relaxes me to make the exercises you told me.
Look at this “I” which is lost, where is it ? describe it for me. The thought “I” will continue to arise but you know it is only a concept without substance. Why not replace this “I” feeling by Presence (consciousness) feeling.

Here is an exercise which points out the difference between direct experience and content of thought.

There are two types of thoughts:
(1) Thoughts with words “Here is cup”
(2) Visual mental images of a ‘cup’

So I invite you to do this exercise:
Think of a cup. Get a very clear picture in your mind. See clearly the size, shape, colour and volume of the cup. Notice whether it is decorated or plain. Notice whether it has a handle. Notice whether it is heavy or fragile. Do you have a clear picture in mind?

Now, can you physically grasp that image of a cup?
Can you pour tea into it?
Can you drink from it?

Is there a ‘real’ cup or just an image of a cup?
Is there an appearing mental image?
Is the content of the mental image (the cup) ‘real’?

The thoughts and mental images are real only as arising thoughts and mental images, their ‘presence’ cannot be denied. However their contents, what are they about are not ‘real’, they are just fantasies. Can you see this?

Over the course of the next day or so, I'd like you to notice the content of thoughts. Whenever there is an arising thought or mental image, check whether its content (what it’s about) is really happening, or the content is just pure imagination. Let me know how it goes.

Best wishes

Warissem

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Questioning
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:33 am

Re: questions for life

Postby Questioning » Fri Jul 15, 2022 6:03 pm

Hi Warissem,

today some unforeseen circumstances made it impossible for me to go deeply into the questions and tasks you gave me. I want to go through everything this evening when what keeps me busy is done and will send my reply tonight.

I hope this is okay for you?
Best regards
Hel

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Questioning
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:33 am

Re: questions for life

Postby Questioning » Fri Jul 15, 2022 7:09 pm

Hi Warissem,
Then all this is a thought story : just don’t believe these thoughts. It is conditioning which is operating, due to education, society, religion or whatever.
..so great to read!!
Do you have a clear picture in mind?
Yes
Now, can you physically grasp that image of a cup?
Can you pour tea into it?
Can you drink from it?
No.No.No.
Is there a ‘real’ cup or just an image of a cup?
Only an image
Is there an appearing mental image?
Yes
Is the content of the mental image (the cup) ‘real’?
No
However their contents, what are they about are not ‘real’, they are just fantasies. Can you see this?
Yes. But it depends on the cup. If it is a cup I actually own I feel like thinking of this special cup. It's a memory of a cup in my cupboard then. If I make the exercise with just a type of cup it's easier. Then it is clear imagination. But it is of course in both cases an imagination. It's so new to me to think like this.

Whenever there is an arising thought or mental image, check whether its content (what it’s about) is really happening, or the content is just pure imagination. Let me know how it goes.
It is mere thought. Pure imagination.
I still have some resistance labeling a thought as imagination.
For me imagination sounds like fantasy and thought sounds like results-oriented reality. But actually a thought is nothing more than a fantasy in my head even when I mean repeating something that actually happened or actually exists (like my cup in my cupboard).
It seems that everything is just in my head but this is more a result of my reflection not so much something I am naturally aware of.

Best wishes
Hel

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warissem
Posts: 2830
Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 6:45 pm

Re: questions for life

Postby warissem » Fri Jul 15, 2022 9:57 pm

Hi Helga

Great, you have done good observations.
It seems that everything is just in my head but this is more a result of my reflection not so much something I am naturally aware of.
Do you see that what you wrote is a train of thoughts with no relation to direct experience ?
Is there someone to whom thoughts are appearing ? Look.
It is not your reflection : thoughts are arising without you. Do you see this ?

There is an exercise for you :

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.
2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:-

How is the movement controlled?
Does a thought control it?
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.
Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

Please, give answers to each question separately.

Best wishes

Warissem

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Questioning
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:33 am

Re: questions for life

Postby Questioning » Sat Jul 16, 2022 4:40 pm

Hi Warissem,
Do you see that what you wrote is a train of thoughts with no relation to direct experience ?
Thanks to your reminder: yes.
Is there someone to whom thoughts are appearing ? Look
My first impression is: yes. But a second thought tells me it might be just the fantasy of an "I".
It is not your reflection : thoughts are arising without you. Do you see this ?
Yes this I can see clearly.
How is the movement controlled?
When I do it fast and without thinking (as you told me)
I don't feel control. The direct experience is just seeing what my hand does.
Does a thought control it?
No not at all.
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
No
How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately
.
It happens automatically. I can't find a decision point.
Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?
I don't know.
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?
No. Not after having started the process. Then there is kind of automatism.


It's still a big challenge to remind myself to move into direct experience. I am completely absorbed with thoughts.

Best wishes
Hel

User avatar
Questioning
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:33 am

Re: questions for life

Postby Questioning » Sat Jul 16, 2022 4:40 pm

Hi Warissem,
Do you see that what you wrote is a train of thoughts with no relation to direct experience ?
Thanks to your reminder: yes.
Is there someone to whom thoughts are appearing ? Look
My first impression is: yes. But a second thought tells me it might be just the fantasy of an "I".
It is not your reflection : thoughts are arising without you. Do you see this ?
Yes this I can see clearly.
How is the movement controlled?
When I do it fast and without thinking (as you told me)
I don't feel control. The direct experience is just seeing what my hand does.
Does a thought control it?
No not at all.
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
No
How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately
.
It happens automatically. I can't find a decision point.
Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?
I don't know.
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?
No. Not after having started the process. Then there is kind of automatism.


It's still a big challenge to remind myself to move into direct experience. I am completely absorbed with thoughts.

Best wishes
Hel

User avatar
Questioning
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:33 am

Re: questions for life

Postby Questioning » Sat Jul 16, 2022 4:40 pm

Hi Warissem,
Do you see that what you wrote is a train of thoughts with no relation to direct experience ?
Thanks to your reminder: yes.
Is there someone to whom thoughts are appearing ? Look
My first impression is: yes. But a second thought tells me it might be just the fantasy of an "I".
It is not your reflection : thoughts are arising without you. Do you see this ?
Yes this I can see clearly.
How is the movement controlled?
When I do it fast and without thinking (as you told me)
I don't feel control. The direct experience is just seeing what my hand does.
Does a thought control it?
No not at all.
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
No
How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately
.
It happens automatically. I can't find a decision point.
Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?
I don't know.
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?
No. Not after having started the process. Then there is kind of automatism.


It's still a big challenge to remind myself to move into direct experience. I am completely absorbed with thoughts.

Best wishes
Hel

User avatar
Questioning
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:33 am

Re: questions for life

Postby Questioning » Sat Jul 16, 2022 4:40 pm

Hi Warissem,
Do you see that what you wrote is a train of thoughts with no relation to direct experience ?
Thanks to your reminder: yes.
Is there someone to whom thoughts are appearing ? Look
My first impression is: yes. But a second thought tells me it might be just the fantasy of an "I".
It is not your reflection : thoughts are arising without you. Do you see this ?
Yes this I can see clearly.
How is the movement controlled?
When I do it fast and without thinking (as you told me)
I don't feel control. The direct experience is just seeing what my hand does.
Does a thought control it?
No not at all.
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
No
How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately
.
It happens automatically. I can't find a decision point.
Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?
I don't know.
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?
No. Not after having started the process. Then there is kind of automatism.


It's still a big challenge to remind myself to move into direct experience. I am completely absorbed with thoughts.

Best wishes
Hel

User avatar
Questioning
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:33 am

Re: questions for life

Postby Questioning » Sat Jul 16, 2022 4:40 pm

Hi Warissem,
Do you see that what you wrote is a train of thoughts with no relation to direct experience ?
Thanks to your reminder: yes.
Is there someone to whom thoughts are appearing ? Look
My first impression is: yes. But a second thought tells me it might be just the fantasy of an "I".
It is not your reflection : thoughts are arising without you. Do you see this ?
Yes this I can see clearly.
How is the movement controlled?
When I do it fast and without thinking (as you told me)
I don't feel control. The direct experience is just seeing what my hand does.
Does a thought control it?
No not at all.
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
No
How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately
.
It happens automatically. I can't find a decision point.
Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?
I don't know.
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?
No. Not after having started the process. Then there is kind of automatism.


It's still a big challenge to remind myself to move into direct experience. I am completely absorbed with thoughts.

Best wishes
Hel

User avatar
Questioning
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:33 am

Re: questions for life

Postby Questioning » Sat Jul 16, 2022 4:40 pm

Hi Warissem,
Do you see that what you wrote is a train of thoughts with no relation to direct experience ?
Thanks to your reminder: yes.
Is there someone to whom thoughts are appearing ? Look
My first impression is: yes. But a second thought tells me it might be just the fantasy of an "I".
It is not your reflection : thoughts are arising without you. Do you see this ?
Yes this I can see clearly.
How is the movement controlled?
When I do it fast and without thinking (as you told me)
I don't feel control. The direct experience is just seeing what my hand does.
Does a thought control it?
No not at all.
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
No
How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately
.
It happens automatically. I can't find a decision point.
Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?
I don't know.
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?
No. Not after having started the process. Then there is kind of automatism.


It's still a big challenge to remind myself to move into direct experience. I am completely absorbed with thoughts.

Best wishes
Hel

User avatar
Questioning
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:33 am

Re: questions for life

Postby Questioning » Sat Jul 16, 2022 4:40 pm

Hi Warissem,
Do you see that what you wrote is a train of thoughts with no relation to direct experience ?
Thanks to your reminder: yes.
Is there someone to whom thoughts are appearing ? Look
My first impression is: yes. But a second thought tells me it might be just the fantasy of an "I".
It is not your reflection : thoughts are arising without you. Do you see this ?
Yes this I can see clearly.
How is the movement controlled?
When I do it fast and without thinking (as you told me)
I don't feel control. The direct experience is just seeing what my hand does.
Does a thought control it?
No not at all.
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
No
How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately
.
It happens automatically. I can't find a decision point.
Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?
I don't know.
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?
No. Not after having started the process. Then there is kind of automatism.


It's still a big challenge to remind myself to move into direct experience. I am completely absorbed with thoughts.

Best wishes
Hel

User avatar
Questioning
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:33 am

Re: questions for life

Postby Questioning » Sat Jul 16, 2022 4:40 pm

Hi Warissem,
Do you see that what you wrote is a train of thoughts with no relation to direct experience ?
Thanks to your reminder: yes.
Is there someone to whom thoughts are appearing ? Look
My first impression is: yes. But a second thought tells me it might be just the fantasy of an "I".
It is not your reflection : thoughts are arising without you. Do you see this ?
Yes this I can see clearly.
How is the movement controlled?
When I do it fast and without thinking (as you told me)
I don't feel control. The direct experience is just seeing what my hand does.
Does a thought control it?
No not at all.
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
No
How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately
.
It happens automatically. I can't find a decision point.
Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?
I don't know.
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?
No. Not after having started the process. Then there is kind of automatism.


It's still a big challenge to remind myself to move into direct experience. I am completely absorbed with thoughts.

Best wishes
Hel

User avatar
Questioning
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:33 am

Re: questions for life

Postby Questioning » Sat Jul 16, 2022 4:44 pm

..

User avatar
Questioning
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:33 am

Re: questions for life

Postby Questioning » Sat Jul 16, 2022 4:45 pm

..

User avatar
Questioning
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:33 am

Re: questions for life

Postby Questioning » Sat Jul 16, 2022 4:46 pm

...


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