Away Ken

[AwayKen127]

Describe this "visual" exactly. What is seen? Exactly. Shape, color, size of this hallucination?

There is an illuminated rectangle (computer screen) with blue, yellow, and white areas, framed in black. To the right is a beige wall and beneath is a dark green card table. To the left is a patch of beige and blue. Above is a faint black line (frame of my glasses). Next I had planned to describe the center but the center is actually just the computer screen I already described. I don't see the 'center' I thought I was seeing! There is no point of view. What does that even mean? There is just this.

[Anastacia42]

Good. There is no center.

I don't see the 'center' I thought I was seeing! There is no point of view. What does that even mean? There is just this.

Meanings are made up stories, just the content of thought. There's no meaning to find.

Try this pointer. maybe it will become clearer:

Headless Way

Have a look around you. You can see colous of the room, of your 'feet’, of your ‘knees’, of your ‘chest’ and perhaps of your 'hands'.

Now point a finger towards the place where others see your head and face.

What do you see? Do you see your face? Do you see your head?

Do you see anything at all there - any colors, shapes, or any movement?

Looking into the place where others see your face, do you see colors or shapes there?

What do you find?

Loving,

[AwayKen127]

Good morning! First, thank you for your comment about meanings being empty thoughts. When I SAW that there was no center, there was nothing that my phrase "point of view" could refer to. Such a thing never existed and cannot exist. The phrase stopped making sense. I was believing in Santa Claus.

What do you see? Do you see your face? Do you see your head?

No head. This "place" you are pointing me to doesn't exist. It's the same as what I called "the center" or "point of view". It's a subtle story that I always implicitly accepted because I never looked at it closely enough.

Do you see anything at all there - any colors, shapes, or any movement?

When you say "there" (the place where others see my face), there is no such place. Colors, shapes, and movement are present, however. They are real. I don't know WHERE they are. I'm beginning to see that WHERE is yet another story.

Looking into the place where others see your face, do you see colors or shapes there?

Colors and shapes are present, but not "there" because there is no "there".

What do you find?

Colors and shapes are present but there is no "there".

[Anastacia42]

All of that is exactly right, Jeff.

Yes, Headless Way was given for the similarity to what was found as "no center."

Yes. There is no "there" there.

Again, how does it FEEL to SEE this? Is there anything left to seek?

You saw the absence of choice with palm Flipping.

No Jeff. No choice. What more is there?


Loving,

[AwayKen127]

Stacy, your pointing is very skilful!

Again, how does it FEEL to SEE this? Is there anything left to seek?

Seeing there is no center is astonishing. It feels light and free and thrilling. I see now that there is also no seeking and never could be. Seeking is only to a thought. In this thought, which is composed of a visual image of my body, I am in a different mental state in the future, immune to all threats. Sensations accompany the thought: peaceful and deeply relaxed and happy.

No Jeff. No choice. What more is there?

No Jeff. No choice. No future Jeff (after liberation) who is immune to all threats and challenges. I don't know what more there is, but I will sit with it. Sensation is and thought is, and that is all there is in direct experience. Thought is a reflection of sensation or other thoughts. Its content is meaningless and refers only to other thoughts or sensations, creating a hall of mirrors.
Sensation (including all sensory modalities) is fundamental, real, and ineffable, not located in "time" and "space" or in the "body" or "self".

[Anastacia42]

Thank you, Jeff. Your LOOKING is skillful.

Yes, be with it a while. I think you may be cooked. We have some traditional "final" questions to make sure we haven't missed anything. Please let me know when you're ready for those.

Loving,

[AwayKen127]

I still find that, when thoughts arise, which is often, I believe the content first, before experiencing the thought as a reflection of a sense. Also, when emotion arises, I don't feel it very clearly as sensation in my body, which is another example of getting hooked by the content of the thought and not clearly experiencing the sensation. Finally, although my experience of life is different (especially in moments of inquiry or meditation), there has been no big, sudden, durable shift.

[AwayKen127]

I still find that, when thoughts arise, which is often, I believe the content first, before experiencing the thought as a reflection of a sense. Also, when emotion arises, I don't feel it very clearly as sensation in my body, which is another example of getting hooked by the content of the thought and not clearly experiencing the sensation. Finally, although my experience of life is different (especially in moments of inquiry or meditation), there has been no big, sudden, durable shift.

[AwayKen127]

I still find that, when thoughts arise, which is often, I believe the content first, before experiencing the thought as a reflection of a sense. Also, when emotion arises, I don't feel it very clearly as sensation in my body, which is another example of getting hooked by the content of the thought and not clearly experiencing the sensation. Finally, although my experience of life is different (especially in moments of inquiry or meditation), there has been no big, sudden, durable shift.

[AwayKen127]

I still find that, when thoughts arise, which is often, I believe the content first, before experiencing the thought as a reflection of a sense. Also, when emotion arises, I don't feel it very clearly as sensation in my body, which is another example of getting hooked by the content of the thought and not clearly experiencing the sensation. Finally, although my experience of life is different (especially in moments of inquiry or meditation), there has been no big, sudden, durable shift.

[AwayKen127]

I still find that, when thoughts arise, which is often, I believe the content first, before experiencing the thought as a reflection of a sense. Also, when emotion arises, I don't feel it very clearly as sensation in my body, which is another example of getting hooked by the content of the thought and not clearly experiencing the sensation. Finally, although my experience of life is different (especially in moments of inquiry or meditation), there has been no big, sudden, durable shift.

[AwayKen127]

I still find that, when thoughts arise, which is often, I believe the content first, before experiencing the thought as a reflection of a sense. Also, when emotion arises, I don't feel it very clearly as sensation in my body, which is another example of getting hooked by the content of the thought and not clearly experiencing the sensation. Finally, although my experience of life is different (especially in moments of inquiry or meditation), there has been no big, sudden, durable shift.

[Anastacia42]

Okay...

there has been no big, sudden, durable shift.

1st, that is an expectation and it will get in your way. It will prevent seeing. 2nd not everyone gets a big sudden shift. Sometimes it's subtle over time.

when thoughts arise, which is often, I believe the content first, before experiencing the thought as a reflection of a sense.

Thoughts will continue to arise. It doesn't matter. It's OK to believe it and then notice the truth.

when emotion arises, I don't feel it very clearly as sensation in my body, which is another example of getting hooked by the content of the thought

This is also OK. Overtime a lot of it will clear up. Remember I said this is the beginning not an end. In Buddhism there are 7 more steps called "fetters." We do not work with those here.

my experience of life is different (especially in moments of inquiry or meditation)

That is why I say you sound cooked. What else do you want to look into?


Loving

[AwayKen127]

What else do you want to look into?

This is like that funny moment when therapy comes to an end! I'm not aware of anything else that there is to look into. Do you think I'm missing anything? I'd love to carry that deep sensory immersion from the cushion into my daily activities. On the cushion, I can enter into it quickly and easily and stay there without effort, and I find it very enjoyable and fascinating. I'd love to have more clarity and more consistent and durable clarity about the insights I've already had, such as the illusory nature of self, past, future, will, etc. I'm not sure I'm eager to quiet thought much more because thoughts are not causing anxiety or disturbing my peace or joy, and I enjoy them mostly. My plan for the future is that I'll continue to do what I've been doing (inquiry and natural meditation) and trust that awakening will develop. (As I share this, I realize that awakeness can only be NOW and that the future and Jeff aren't real.) What do you think? Is it time for Final Questions or is there something else that is needed?

[Anastacia42]

Good morning!

Yes, let's look at final questions. If there's more your answers will show that.

Also, please watch this video. It will explain a lot.

https://youtu.be/vJQcD588g2w


1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Loving