Mask that we wear

[Vivien]

Hi Chinni,

Is this something you actually see in daily life in experience, or is this rather an intellectual understanding, a logical conclusion?

Vivien

[truthseeker7]

Hello Vivien,

Is this something you actually see in daily life in experience, or is this rather an intellectual understanding, a logical conclusion?

I see it when the focus is turned inwards. Not during everyday activities – the focus is very diffused then. But when the focus is turned inwards and I’m looking at how actions begin, I see that they are like thoughts. And thoughts themselves are a form of action. All of them arises by itself. I don’t know how they arise, but just that they do.

With regards,
Chinni

[Vivien]

Hi Chinni,

I see it when the focus is turned inwards. Not during everyday activities – the focus is very diffused then.

Please start to incorporate looking into your everyday activates, in your daily life. This is important.

Spend a whole day noticing thoughts. Be vigilant to catch any moment in your waking state when the story, the mental movie is on.

Notice, how much time do you spend watching a mentally fabricated movie about the past?
How much about an imagined future?
How much about some other place than here now?

How often you are focusing on thoughts that are not about what is here-now and this very moment?

How much of the time attention is on the mental stuff, on the contents of the thoughts, instead of the here-and-now experience, where life is?

Vivien

[truthseeker7]

Hello Vivien,

Notice, how much time do you spend watching a mentally fabricated movie about the past?

Actually a significant amount of time… even when I don’t want to do that and am trying to be vigilant about it, I only realize later that I have been caught up in a movie about the past

How much about an imagined future?

The same is true about future. A good portion of the day is spent about an imagined future

How much about some other place than here now?

Both past and future are places not here and now, so quite a bit

How often you are focusing on thoughts that are not about what is here-now and this very moment?

A lot

How much of the time attention is on the mental stuff, on the contents of the thoughts, instead of the here-and-now experience, where life is?

Again, a lot..

It is getting easier to catch myself when I do this, and when I do, I try to focus on the here and now. And try to just observe the thoughts, sensations and experience.

Thanks,
Chinni

[Vivien]

Hi Chinni,

V: How much about some other place than here now?

C: Both past and future are places not here and now, so quite a bit

“not here” or “other place” is more than just thinking about the past and future that is not here.

What about things that are happening now, but not here?
Like being at work, but imagining what my dog does at home alone?
Or being in one room, but imagining what happens in the other room?
Or, looking at your co-workers talking, and imagining that they are talking about you?
Or when you drive and someone overtakes you, imagining that the driver must think that I’m driving too slowly that’s why he is overtaking me?

Can you see the endless possibilities to fantasize all day long that is not your reality, experience?

And what for? To keep the illusion of an ongoing, continuous self (Chini) alive?

It is getting easier to catch myself when I do this, and when I do, I try to focus on the here and now. And try to just observe the thoughts, sensations and experience.

Good. You can go a step further.

When attention focuses onto the content of a thought / mental movie, is that something you do?
Or it happens automatically?

And when there is a recognition that attention was zoomed in to a story, is that recognition is your doing? Or that’s also just happens on its own?

And what about the thought ‘I should try to observe thoughts’. – Is that thought your doing?
Do you think that thought?

Or even that thought is just something that occur on its own, and you are just aware of it when it’s present?

Vivien

[truthseeker7]

Hello Vivien,

Can I have couple more days to reflect on your questions? There are moments when it seems like there is clarity and but then there is confusion. I understand your questions – the confusion is not with the questions, but with the implications of the answers.

Thanks,
Chinni

[Vivien]

Yes, of course, please be thorough.

Have a nice day,
Vivien

[truthseeker7]

Hello Vivien

These last pointings have been some of the more difficult one for me. There would be times when I think I see the answers to some of your questions clearly, but others would throw me off. I’ve kept looking.

What about things that are happening now, but not here?

You are right. Things that may be happening now but not here is also something that is not in direct experience.

Like being at work, but imagining what my dog does at home alone?

Haha very true.

Or being in one room, but imagining what happens in the other room?

Same. It’s not here and now. So not in direct experience.

Or, looking at your co-workers talking, and imagining that they are talking about you?

Not in direct experience.

Or when you drive and someone overtakes you, imagining that the driver must think that I’m driving too slowly that’s why he is overtaking me?

Just thoughts. Not in direct experience.

Can you see the endless possibilities to fantasize all day long that is not your reality, experience?

Very true.

When attention focuses onto the content of a thought / mental movie, is that something you do?

This is something that blew my mind. It happens by itself. I think I control it. But that’s not true. It happens first. And then there is awareness of it. I mistake it for something I do.

Or it happens automatically?

It happens by itself.

And when there is a recognition that attention was zoomed in to a story, is that recognition is your doing? Or that’s also just happens on its own?

That also happens by its own. This was difficult to see... but awareness happens first and then the “I” attaches itself to the act of recognition and thinks it is the doer. That the “I” was the force behind the action of recognition!!!

And what about the thought ‘I should try to observe thoughts’. – Is that thought your doing?
Do you think that thought?

No. This is just an extension of steam of thoughts that originated with the previous recognition that attention zoomed in to mental movies. This also arises by itself. And the “I” attaches itself to the thought and believes it created it. But the thought came first and then the “I”.

Or even that thought is just something that occur on its own, and you are just aware of it when it’s present?

I’m aware when it happens.

The implication of this is what still a bit confusing. If thoughts happen on their own and actions happen on their own, then what role do “I” play in my own realization? Even this journey of finding the nature of “I” is happening on its own?

With regards
Chinni

[Vivien]

Hi Chinni,

V: When attention focuses onto the content of a thought / mental movie, is that something you do?

C: This is something that blew my mind. It happens by itself. I think I control it. But that’s not true. It happens first. And then there is awareness of it. I mistake it for something I do.

“I think I control it” – what is this I that thinks?
Is there an I thinking?

Look here now.
What is thinking thoughts?
Is there a thinker? Where?

V: And when there is a recognition that attention was zoomed in to a story, is that recognition is your doing? Or that’s also just happens on its own?

C: That also happens by its own. This was difficult to see... but awareness happens first and then the “I” attaches itself to the act of recognition and thinks it is the doer. That the “I” was the force behind the action of recognition!!!

“then I attaches itself…” – what is this I that could attach itself?

Is there an actual I attaching itself? Or… there is just a thought with a statement arising “I did that”, “I’ve decided”?

When does a thought like "I decided for this, because...." or " I chose this because....." turn up? When does the explanation turns up, before, during or after the action?

The implication of this is what still a bit confusing. If thoughts happen on their own and actions happen on their own, then what role do “I” play in my own realization? Even this journey of finding the nature of “I” is happening on its own?

What is this I that you are talking about?
Is there an actual I outside of thoughts that talk about one?

Vivien

[truthseeker7]

Hello Vivien,

Thank you for your patience and for your continued guidance.

“I think I control it” – what is this I that thinks?

This “I” is just a thought that comes after recognition of attention and takes credit for the recognition. It does not control or cause the movement of attention. Attention happens by itself!

Is there an I thinking?

No, “I” is just a thought. Thoughts do not think.

Look here now.
What is thinking thoughts?

No one is thinking.

Is there a thinker? Where?

No thinker. Thinking happens by itself.

“then I attaches itself…” – what is this I that could attach itself?

The “I” is just a thought that comes after another thought and claims credit for the first thought.

Is there an actual I attaching itself? Or… there is just a thought with a statement arising “I did that”, “I’ve decided”?

That’s it! It is just a thought arising saying “I did this”/”I decided”

When does a thought like "I decided for this, because...." or " I chose this because....." turn up? When does the explanation turns up, before, during or after the action?

It is always after the original thought. It comes in after a decision thought has risen and then the “I” thought takes credit for the first thought.

C:The implication of this is what still a bit confusing. If thoughts happen on their own and actions happen on their own, then what role do “I” play in my own realization? Even this journey of finding the nature of “I” is happening on its own?

V:What is this I that you are talking about?
Is there an actual I outside of thoughts that talk about one?

You are right. Everything is happening by itself. How can “I” do anything? “I” is just a collection of thoughts that have attempted to explain the experience that is happening. And as thoughts, “I” has no basis in reality. Experience just happens and there is awareness of that experience. And “I” as a collection of thoughts is also an experience - it is not the experiencer!

Much gratitude and love,
Chinni

[Vivien]

Hi Chinni,

You are welcome :)

You did a nice investigation.

This “I” is just a thought that comes after recognition of attention and takes credit for the recognition. It does not control or cause the movement of attention. Attention happens by itself!

Great! Now let’s dig deeper looking at attention, since often doership is hiding somewhere as the controller of attention. So we have to be super clear about this.

You can experiment with sitting quietly, and holding attention on breathing.
Sooner or later attention will move on to another object/thing.

Try to ignore thinking about how all of it happens. We are not trying to figure out the ‘how’. That would be just more thinking and not experiencing.

We are just noticing WHAT IS, what is actually happening, without trying to interpret or give meaning to it.
Notice, that focus of attention is constantly moving. Watch closely.

Is there something moving attention or is it going to the next thing automatically?

If it seems to be a mover, then try to locate it. Where is it? Can you find a person, a me moving attention?

What is that moves attention? Is there anything moving it? Or does it move by itself?

Experiment with this several times a day, even if just for a few minutes each, but try to have a longer session too. Let me know what you find.

Vivien

[truthseeker7]

Hello Vivien,

Is there something moving attention or is it going to the next thing automatically?

Attention attaches to a thought by itself, and moves to a different thought by itself. There is no one controlling or directing attention.

If it seems to be a mover, then try to locate it. Where is it? Can you find a person, a me moving attention?

hahaaa.. no mover. It happens by itself

What is that moves attention? Is there anything moving it? Or does it move by itself?

It moves by itself.

Wanted to share something that happened yesterday. Yesterday at work, a very good idea (about something related to work) popped into my head…and then there was also a pleasant realization that “I” had nothing to do with it. “I” did not come up with the idea. The idea appeared on its own. It was a good feeling!

Best Regards,
Chinni.

[Vivien]

Hi Chinni,

Wanted to share something that happened yesterday. Yesterday at work, a very good idea (about something related to work) popped into my head…and then there was also a pleasant realization that “I” had nothing to do with it. “I” did not come up with the idea. The idea appeared on its own. It was a good feeling!

Nice :) Isn’t this the case with every thought?

Do you have anything to do with thoughts (any thought)?

Please check this as often as possible during the day (50-100 times).

Vivien

[truthseeker7]

Hello Vivien,
I had so much fun and joy with this one.

Isn’t this the case with every thought?

Yes!!! YES!!! Yes it is! Many time in the last few days, there would be awareness of thought and realization that the “I” that I’ve assumed myself to be did not create that thought. I could not have predicted the thought that just arose. “I” became aware of it after the thought had risen.

Do you have anything to do with thoughts (any thought)?

No, I do not. I do not create them. Thoughts arise according to the situation that “I” find myself in. And they are colored by whatever knowledge the mind has acquired. But “I” does not create the thoughts. Nor does it create the actions. Sometimes, there is thought that precedes an action – and this is mistaken for control.

I now understand your earlier statement about “What is beating the heart/what is digesting the food/what is making the body grow old”. “I” have never had any control over any of that – and yet they have all happened all the time. And “I” don’t even have control over the things that “I” thought I did – like moving my arm. It was just an assumption that “I” never investigated. And “I” never would have known to investigate them had it not been for your pointings!!!!

Best Regards,
Chinni

[Vivien]

Hi Chinni,

You did a really nice investigation :)

So, is there anything that is not happening on autopilot? Anything at all?

Vivien