Laura, this thread is for you.

[Laura]

Hi again,
Today is interesting. I feel rather detached, nonreactive, but present. A friend called to talk about our mutual friend who made fun of me and there was no energy around it, no anger or hurt really. Where I could have held on to something like this for days - it disappeared. I am looking forward to seeing her, with nothing needing to be said or done. Nothing very personal.

Also noticing not terribly bothered by extra body weight today. Just noticing full middle without good or bad judgement. Just aware interest.

When I stop to notice, I feel tingling in my body more than normal. Aliveness.

As I watched the park outside my window, everything really wiggling in a rain storm, I felt almost like I think a baby feels, just watching everything move without comment, label, identification. A thing we call an arm moves into field of vision, don't have a thought yet that that thing belongs to a me. Just watching the play of everything including the thoughts, breath, movements in this body. And can see that from this baby like view, I don't know the separateness of things, don't look at one tree as being separate from another. And I feel interest, excitement. Just a big wide wonderful world. I want to say: Hey, look at that, and look at that and look at that. And while noticing, I began to feel more like the space in which all these things are all dancing together.

Then I noticed my son got home from school and that global space sense was replaced by interacting with him. Still nonreactive, but a bit of a contraction, and more thoughts.

And so grateful for you and this process! Thank you so much. Laura

[Laura]

Last night, I watched each time the body woke up and was rolled over or an arm, leg was moved. What ever this is just watches, notices. Not in charge at all. And the body seemed like a puppet being moved by...? A mystery.

[Ilona]

Great answers, Laura.
You are seeing it already.

But, what is it that wathes? There is watching happening like moving arm happening.
Is there a watcher at all?


:))
Much love!

[Laura]

Hmmm. What is it that watches? That question does get to the heart of the matter:). Moving arm happening, watching happening. All happening by this great mystery, life. As we touched on earlier in the week, the watching/witnessing is just happening. I am not watching. No "I". There isn't A watcher. There is just watching. Moving arm. Blowing tree branches. Thoughts. No watcher, mover, blower, thinker....just happenings. The watching is just happening. Nothing DOES the watching. Just watching being done. Lots of happenings,verbs, no subjects. Except LIFE? Just ONE subject that handles all the verbs? No exceptions. wow.

Something interesting is happening. It feel very close. I am going to sit with this some more.

And I am leaving tomorrow am for a week of sitting/silence with Mooji in Portugal. I would love whatever thoughts you have for this time on retreat. It feels like a great way to continue to deepen what we have been working on. Any other advice or specific question you would leave me with?

I will not have internet until I am back home on May 11th, so I will get in touch with you then.
Truly, what you are doing here is so awesome and so appreciated! Soooooo loving this work/help.
Love, Laura

[Ilona]

Sounds that you are seeing it :) should I say- that's it. Life is life-ing, no sobject object, just verbs.

Perfect timing with retreat, could not plan it more perfect and this too is just happening.
It is going to be great, enjoy it, this will sink deeper. mooji is great, and whatever comes up- trust it.

Much love to you
Looking forward to hear from you when you get back

And for the last question-
Is there anything that is not effortless, including thoughts of doubt and being sucked up into story?

:)

[Laura]

Hi Ilona,
I returned from Satsang with Mooji last night. Feeling very peaceful. It was a wonderful week with him. Lots of laughs and deep love. Sinking deeper but no obvious pops. Just noticing. Where is the 'I'? Can't be found. And who is looking?

Mooji refers a lot to the seer or perceiver. Mind goes into conflict with what we talked about - there is only perceiving - no perceiver. He asks: You are perceiving as what? Even the sense 'I am' can be perceived. Can the seer be seen? No. It seems like semantics - saying the same thing. The seer is objectless awareness - so all that's left is the verbs.

Two phrases going through the mind are: Where is the 'I'? When this is repeated, there is such an open, spaciousness. No where. The other is from Adyashanti: Drop the whole past all at once. What is left? Just this. When this is repeated, it is like a giant eraser cleans the world and what's left is just this here now.

I loved your question: Is there anything that is not effortless? NO. Even anger at the Airlines was effortless many times:).

So all that being said, it still doesn't seem all the way there yet - full seeing.
Mooji left us with the question: Is there any boundary consciousness does not go beyond? Like my own inquiry: How do you know that consciousness is limited to this body? Again, the answer seems obvious... but not full experiencing.

More trust in this unfolding. And I am also noticing a funny shift just being back on this web site and writing to you.
Something seems fuzzier/softer around the edges, quieter...

Looking forward to continuing with you,
Laura

[Ilona]

hi Laura, welcome back. great to hear that your week was wonderful.

Mooji refers a lot to the seer or perceiver. Mind goes into conflict with what we talked about - there is only perceiving - no perceiver. He asks: You are perceiving as what? Even the sense 'I am' can be perceived. Can the seer be seen? No. It seems like semantics - saying the same thing. The seer is objectless awareness - so all that's left is the verbs.

it really does not matter what mooji says, or what i say or whoever else. all these words are merely pointers. it is what you see that is true to you. so if you get confused with what mooji calls perceiver, look at it just as a pointer. perceiving is happening- also a pointer and it's up to you to follow what it points to. language is tricky business. confusion in a head is because of language. body knows what is true and what is not. but mind believes many things and created stories. by coming back to right here right now and checking what is true, you can notice, that now is all here is. body relaxes and mind calms down.

I loved your question: Is there anything that is not effortless? NO. Even anger at the Airlines was effortless many times:).

haha, yes, all arise and pass away.

question "where is the i?" assumes that there is where and i and the answer is nowhere. but can you see that this question does not make sense at all. it assumes that there is an i that needs to be found. you can face the absence directly by turning your attention to what is already obvious. so rather that looking for what isn't, look at what is.

try it. :)
that what is already obvious is where the truth is. again, this it just a pointer.

write what comes up.
sending love.

[Laura]

I do see that the question doesn't make sense - like a Koan, the sound of one hand clapping. It makes no sense and the mind is stopped in it's tracks. And then just space. Thats why I love to ask it. What remains is that space, being. But to look at that... to just look directly at that space, spaciousness, what is right here, now. All that is real. That. Just life. It is very simple. What is is quite obvious. Just no words for it? hmmmm....

[Ilona]

yes, it is always accessible right here right now.
:)

is there any doubt at all?

[Laura]

hmmm. Again, on some level there must be... or just the momentum of living as an 'I' not fully done yet. Or just expecting something more, a bigger shift in perspective... I can't say what the doubt is. Not sure if doubt is the right word. But a thought there is more to see here...
Lots of dot, dot, dots.
What do you think? More questions?

[Ilona]

There is no fully done. It's a myth.
:)

When you looking back before we started this conversation and now, describe the shift that already happened. Notice, it's a processs that keeps going on. Everything is unfolding and all that is happening is already as it should. Otherwise it would not be happening.

What do you see when looking back?

Much love.

[Laura]

Sorry for the delayed response. Busy weekend. Contemplating your question: What do you see when looking back? What is the shift that already happened?
It is subtle. It is a slow, slow setting down of this 'me'. Less reactive? More distance. Digesting of this no 'me'. Still seeking, longing. Sadness arising at the thought that I am not seeing yet. Seems like there is no doubt that life is living this body, play. That there is no one in control. But doubt that it is truly seen. A big shift seemed to have happened last year when I felt the experience of no self. Now...this conversation confirming that experience, nudging closer to some letting go.

Or keeping the process going, as you say.
What is this process?
I really feel stuck. Hard to write about it.
Mind feels mushy.

[Laura]

Hi again,
A few other thoughts. I have been reading through some of the other threads... Had the thought that although I get that everything is on automatic and effortless... there is still a belief that this effortless life is happening to a me. And I am that awareness?

Also was struck by something else you said to another green: "If you see there is no me, then admit it. For some this is the final step. Admitting it and seeing that this is that simple." There is resistance to it being that simple.

I also saw as I reread my previous post how identified I am as the confused seeking one. It seemed old, an act.

Thanks for hanging in there with me.
Love, Laura

[Ilona]

Thank you for answer Laura.

There is nothing that needs to happen. Expecting for some grand realisation is in a way of seeing. Everything is already as it always is.

Seeing no me is seeing that there is no me as in zero.
Like if I asked you to look for no unicorn in the room, would that even make sense? And if I asked you to look for unicorn in the room, would you turn your head and try to find it?

There is certainty that unicorn is imagined character.
Is me any different? Can it be seen, heard, touched, smelled or tasted? Is there a me in the body?
Take a finger and point to a me now. Where does that finger point to?

There is a difference between what can be experienced with senses and what lives purely in imagination.
Can you see that difference?

Then what is it that sees?
Is there a subject in seeing?

Sending love.

[Laura]

There is certainty that unicorn is imagined character.
Is me any different? Can it be seen, heard, touched, smelled or tasted? Is there a me in the body?
Take a finger and point to a me now. Where does that finger point to?

No me. Can't find it. Vague feeling that I still label me at times. But reality: no me. No where to point. Just imaginary character. And there is a body. There is life in the body. But that sums it up. Nothing more or less. Just life. No real character. So what's left, this life, I am that? I am life?

There is a difference between what can be experienced with senses and what lives purely in imagination.
Can you see that difference?

I do see the difference.

Then what is it that sees?
Is there a subject in seeing?

Back to the seer/seeing happening. Life is the subject.