The Gate

I have to say that this investigation and answering these questions felt uncomfortable. It was difficult to fall asleep last night, there was some fear going on. Thoughts were saying that something was going to disappear or something bad was going to happen - like going insane, if I continued to investigate experience. There's some resistance to all this. But still I know that that fear is just a sensation and thoughts happening. It can't hurt me and surely the investigation can't hurt me. It's just looking at what is.

What does this experience happening TO?
Is there someone here having this experience?

There isn't anything behind experience or anything else here. Sensations, colors, smells, sounds, tastes, thoughts - they are all happening, but there isn't a receiver or an experiencer to be found in experience.

Is the body the experiencer, or the body appears AS an experience?

The body is experienced, but I cannot say what is experiencing it - the experiencer can't be found.

What are you separate from right now?
Are you separate from this experience, being something other than experience and experiencing what is going on?

There isn't anything else than experience happening. There isn't separation in experience, only experiencing.

Is this very experience is separate from the knowing of it?

The experience and the knowing are simultaneous, they are the same thing. Knowing is always included in experience.

Is there anything outside of this here-and-now experience?

The situations, the content of what is experienced, is always changing. What is constant, is the experiencing - seeing, hearing, tasting, smelling, sensing, thinking. There isn't anything outside of this experiencing.

Hi Kaisa,

I have to say that this investigation and answering these questions felt uncomfortable. It was difficult to fall asleep last night, there was some fear going on. Thoughts were saying that something was going to disappear or something bad was going to happen - like going insane, if I continued to investigate experience. There's some resistance to all this. But still I know that that fear is just a sensation and thoughts happening. It can't hurt me and surely the investigation can't hurt me. It's just looking at what is.

Let’s look into this. It’s important because fear or resistance can be a hindrance of going further. But actually, fear is nothing more than a protective mechanism, and it does its job well. There is a belief, a story somewhere about pain or negative consequences to seeing the illusion of the self. And the fear tries to protect you from these supposed negative consequences. So let’s find out what this story is about and see if they are real threats or not.

What I’d like you to do is to investigate this fear. Examine it closely. Feel it. Don’t try to fix it or solve it, just sit with it.
Ask the fear as if it were a some kind of entity:

What do you want to protect me from?

What is the ‘negative’ story, what would happen if the illusion of the self is seen through?

Observe what visual thoughts and stories come up ‘justifying’ its right to fear.
If you ignore the stories (thoughts) and visual thoughts what is BEHIND the fear/resistance?

Vivien

Hey Vivien

I'm sorry for the delay, but I've been waiting for the fear to come back so I could do this investigation with it. It happens only occasionally. I was looking at the previous questions and investigating for these couple of days thinking it would trigger the fear but it didn't happen. I noticed some resistance in the shape of concentration difficulties and frustration while investigating, so I looked at frustration instead.

What do you want to protect me from?

There was nothing threatening going on there. The experience of frustration was simply the sensation of tightness in the throat and elevated heartbeat + thoughts evaluating the investigation like "I'm doing this wrong".

What is the ‘negative’ story, what would happen if the illusion of the self is seen through?

The negative story related to frustration was "I can't get this thing, it's impossible to see through the illusion, I'm too dumb to do this". Kind of funny, as I write the thoughts here now. These thoughts were justifying the impulse to stop investigating.

If you ignore the stories (thoughts) and visual thoughts what is BEHIND the fear/resistance?

There was nothing behind that frustration. There was only the frustration to be experienced, and that was simply sensations and thoughts. I couldn't see this with fear, because the impulse to avoid the feeling was too strong to actually look into it. With fear, the investigation felt threatening and there was much more resistance then.

When the fear decides to come back, I will use these questions to look into it.

Hi Kaisa,

When the fear decides to come back, I will use these questions to look into it.

Yes, please do so, and write me about it when it happens.

The negative story related to frustration was "I can't get this thing, it's impossible to see through the illusion, I'm too dumb to do this". Kind of funny, as I write the thoughts here now. These thoughts were justifying the impulse to stop investigating.

Exactly. These are just justification based on nothing :) Notice how often this happens in your daily life.

Previously, you wrote this:

Thoughts were saying that something was going to disappear or something bad was going to happen - like going insane, if I continued to investigate experience.s

So what is it that could disappear? If there has never been a separate self ever other than an idea, then can this fictional self disappear?

And what is it that could go insane? Is there Kaisa as a person, who could go insane?
And why would it go insane?

The body is experienced, but I cannot say what is experiencing it - the experiencer can't be found.

What if there is no experiencer at all? What if all there is is what is happening here now, as a movement as a whole.

So look now for any evidence of a separate self / me.

Is anything separate from happening?

What and where is the looker / noticer / observer / me as some thing (however subtle) that somehow stands separate from everything happening?

Vivien

Hey Vivien!
There was resistance and avoidance going on since I read your questions, but this morning there was finally some looking going on.

So what is it that could disappear? If there has never been a separate self ever other than an idea, then can this fictional self disappear?

This was just another story. When there is fear, all kinds of images appear and that gives the impression that there is in that moment something real to be afraid of. In the story there is a self that could disappear, be harmed, die, or go insane. All kinds of things happen to the image in the story.

And what is it that could go insane? Is there Kaisa as a person, who could go insane?
And why would it go insane?

In that moment there was fear and there was an image of me (image of body) being afraid and that fear continuing for a long time. The story said that the fear would never go away, and as a result, I would be too afraid to live and be totally isolated from the world, not be able to work or have friends. It was a sad story about "my future".
There is an image of me and the story of me getting hurt. But a thought can't be hurt or damaged. Insanity is a concept and it is not found in experience, only found as the content of a thought.

Is anything separate from happening?

What and where is the looker / noticer / observer / me as some thing (however subtle) that somehow stands separate from everything happening?

The separation is thought content. There is a sensation whilst writing this, which thought labels as sadness, but in experience, there isn't separation between what is noticed and what is noticing it, and this thing that might be noticing it isn't there. The sensation and the noticing are the same thing. Just sensation/knowing of it happening.
The observer can't be located anywhere in space, because that would mean that it could then be experienced as an object. There isn't a noticer/observer/me as a separate thing from all that is happening now. Sadness is not happening to me. Before it seemed like there was an entity somewhere that could be sad, that could get hurt emotionally, but this can't be. It was a thought, an illusion all along. Story and a mental image of sadness happening to a person, person being unhappy. Sadness is a label (thought) and person/self is a thought. What is really there is sensing happening amongst everything else in the here-and-now.

The last question in particular felt uncomfortable to investigate at first, so I avoided this for a couple of days. There was a whole lot of resistance going on. Then after this investigation, there was just relief. Again as with the "tremors"/"anxiety" , I noticed that "sadness" doesn't feel bad at all. It's not an uncomfortable sensation/couple of sensations. The sensation itself can actually be a pleasant experience :)

Hi Kaisa,

This was just another story. When there is fear, all kinds of images appear and that gives the impression that there is in that moment something real to be afraid of. In the story there is a self that could disappear, be harmed, die, or go insane. All kinds of things happen to the image in the story.

Yes. It’s really good that you can see this.

Just notice, is an image you?
Is a self in an image an actual real self?

In that moment there was fear and there was an image of me (image of body) being afraid and that fear continuing for a long time. The story said that the fear would never go away, and as a result, I would be too afraid to live and be totally isolated from the world, not be able to work or have friends. It was a sad story about "my future".

If the body is hurt in this internal movie, does this mean that there is an actual hurt?
Does the movie come true?

Is fear helpful? Helpful in what?
What is the gain of having fearful movies? What do you gain by them?
What is the purpose of having frightening images and stories?

Can you notice, that fear and anxiety come with thoughts about future? What will happen if?
Is fear here when you think about now?
Or when you think about past?
Do thoughts about future make future something real?

The last question in particular felt uncomfortable to investigate at first, so I avoided this for a couple of days. There was a whole lot of resistance going on. Then after this investigation, there was just relief. Again as with the "tremors"/"anxiety" , I noticed that "sadness" doesn't feel bad at all. It's not an uncomfortable sensation/couple of sensations. The sensation itself can actually be a pleasant experience :)

Nice observation.

Vivien

Hey Vivien, thanks for the questions! It was interesting to look at fear.

Just notice, is an image you?
Is a self in an image an actual real self?

No, I can't be an image, because that image of self isn't there all the time. The image appears and disappears, but it doesn't affect anything. Nothing changes in reality when an image disappears.

If the body is hurt in this internal movie, does this mean that there is an actual hurt?
Does the movie come true?

The internal movies brings up emotions. A few days back for example I was texting with my dad and I started to feel annoyed because I thought he was making fun of me. Or then I get afraid thinking about messing up school work. Seems just like old conditioning happening. Worrying about the future and fear of being judged (thought patterns) have been going on for many years, ever since I was a little kid.

The scenarios of being hurt in the internal movie don't come true, they're not happening now. There's a fear that they might, which is actually kind of insane. There's nothing there to be afraid of. It's pure imagination, and not seeing reality - what's happening here-and-now.

Is fear helpful? Helpful in what?
What is the gain of having fearful movies? What do you gain by them?
What is the purpose of having frightening images and stories?

There aren't scary things, fear/the story is what makes them "scary". Car crashes are potentially harmful but there's no use in thinking about it beforehand - it only makes you want to avoid driving. The scary images and stories in thoughts aren't real, they're not here as an experience other than as the content of thought.

When there is a fearful story going on, it always involves me. Something bad happening to me, or something bad happening to someone I care about, which still involves me. Then there are even more irrational fears like social anxiety, the fear of being judged by others, which makes me want to avoid meeting new people. This fear isolates me from others.

These fearful movies make it seem like there is someone who needs to be protected physically and even more importantly, emotionally. That there is a self that would get hurt if it wasn't liked by others. What or who would it be, that would get hurt? A thought "he hurt me, nobody likes me" can appear, but it doesn't mean there's anybody in there claiming that. There's no one there to be hurt, only this story of hurting is appearing.

The purpose of having fearful movies is to keep the self safe from any perceived harm happening in the future. But there's nothing that could be kept safe like this. There's no point in imagining how I should behave and what I should say when I'm with a friend, because it really isn't up to me. Conversation goes on without any control. And then there is a movie going on where I'm in control of what I say and do in future situations.

Can you notice, that fear and anxiety come with thoughts about future? What will happen if?
Is fear here when you think about now?
Or when you think about past?
Do thoughts about future make future something real?

The thing thought claims might happen, like going insane, is not happening now. It takes place in the imagined future.

When I think about what's happening now, there's no fear. And there's nothing in the past to be afraid of, either. It has already passed. Yes, fear is always connected to the imagined future. The thought of starting work at a new job is stressful. The funny thing about this is that there's nothing that could be done about the future situation since it's only a thought appearing in the now.

It seems like fear is only a story and not a real thing. If it only concerns future situations, which aren't happening now, isn't fear then also unreal, as in only a story in the internal movie? Elevated heartbeat, sweating, shaking etc can be labeled "fear", but they are actually just sensations.

Thoughts about future don't make it real. The future is a thought content. The here-and-now cannot be escaped. I can't ever leave this moment/the experiencing/the now.

Hi Kaisa,

It seems like fear is only a story and not a real thing. If it only concerns future situations, which aren't happening now, isn't fear then also unreal, as in only a story in the internal movie? Elevated heartbeat, sweating, shaking etc can be labeled "fear", but they are actually just sensations.

Nice observation.

So look now for any evidence of a separate 'self'.

Is anything separate from what is happening?

What and where is the 'looker' as some thing (however subtle) that somehow stands separate from everything happening?

Vivien

Hey Vivien, I'm sorry for not posting for so many days. I've been trying to deal with anxiety and also with confusion related to your questions.

You asked me about separation, but I struggle with this word. I don't quite understand what is pointed to with words such as separation or oneness.

When looking at the visual field, of course there is separation in the form of separate objects (colors). Separate bodies, body is separate from the bed or the table etc. I don't think this is what you were looking for when you asked about separation but this is how I understood it.

What and where is the 'looker' as some thing (however subtle) that somehow stands separate from everything happening?

Seeing: there is only the color happening. Anything else is just a concept, for example "I'm seeing" or "seeing happens through the eyes". There are no eyes in the experience of looking although there are sensations of eyes moving. No seer (don't know if that's spelled correctly) is there. There are body sensations and thought connects those to the seeing - "this is the body and the body is doing the seeing". In AE colors and sensations are happening separately but in the same "space", as in they are both known.

Hearing: as I looked at hearing, it was interesting to find out that even the words "hearing" and "sound" are false. In AE it is not known what hearing is or where it is happening. A thought links hearing and sounds to the ears and the body. A sound of a clock ticking: only what is heard is known. No concept is needed for this to happen and any concept explaining the experience of hearing is wrong.

Another way I looked at separation was that you cannot separate the body and the environment. The body is experienced the same as the "environment" it is in. Body, table, bed, book - they are all experiences happening in the same "space". There isn't anything outside of what is experienced directly, so in a way there is only one thing happening or one space in which everything happens.

Now about the emotional turmoil...
A few days ago I experienced strong anxiety in the evening. It lasted about two hours and there were some thoughts about self-harm happening. The thoughts were scary, because they were about a scary imagined future where something painful and bad would happen to the body. Normally there aren't any thoughts like this, but this time self-harming seemed to become a real possibility, like it would actually happen. Also there was a scary thought that the anxiety would never go away, but after a few hours it faded. I knew that I needed to look at the sensations and just feel them, but it was too difficult at that time. The looking itself felt really uncomfortable. I've also been struggling with bingeing again.

I think today I want to focus on the impulse to eat when I'm not hungry, because the bingeing is bothering me. I need to really carefully look at what it is I'm running away from - what's there and why do I think I need to escape from it? And who's running :)

Hi Kaisa,
You did a nice investigation. Yes, there is no separation.

I think today I want to focus on the impulse to eat when I'm not hungry, because the bingeing is bothering me. I need to really carefully look at what it is I'm running away from - what's there and why do I think I need to escape from it? And who's running :)

Yes, these are important things to look at. Also, you can check what beliefs are at play when there is a desire to binge eat.

The thoughts were scary, because they were about a scary imagined future where something painful and bad would happen to the body.

We can start looking at the notion of time.

What is memory exactly? – please don’t go to thought explanations, but just let a memory be there, and look at it…
What is the memory ‘made of’?
WHEN does the memory appear?
What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?
How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

Then, look at a thought about the future.
What is the future thought ‘made of’?
WHEN does the future thought appear?
What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought?
How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?

Then let’s compare a thought about the past and a thought about the future.
What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about the past and future?
If there is a difference, how is that difference known exactly?

So if you go back to those scary thoughts of the future, what is it that you can discover?

Please spend a lot of time with EACH question… Look very carefully… Look at what is actually going on and not what thoughts say… but what actually is.

Vivien

Hey Vivien! Here's the work :)

What is memory exactly? – please don’t go to thought explanations, but just let a memory be there, and look at it…
What is the memory ‘made of’?

It's an image, a picture or a movie. It's made of thought.

WHEN does the memory appear?

Whenever. Usually in the evening there are more memory thoughts, it's like going through the situations and happenings of the day. Also, strong emotions can evoke memories - if you're upset, you think of what someone did to you that upset you.

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?

No difference. "I need to wash the dishes", a mental image of pink elephant and a memory are all equal, they're thoughts. Some of them contain the concept of time "I talked to a friend today at the lecture" (past), "I should wash the dishes today" (sometime in the future). But the similarity in them comes from the fact that the content is not here now to be experienced. A friend isn't here in my room and I'm not washing the dishes now. (A pink elephant isn't here in the room either.)

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

Well this is tricky. Only a thought can tell me that it happened. There's no proof of it otherwise. If, for example, I left my bike at the university parking lot after today's lecture, there would be proof of it as the absence of bike at my apartment. But a memory thought tells me that the bike is at the uni. So even then it's just a thought. With no memory (thought) the absence of bike would be a mystery. If a family member agrees with my story of me having to be very independent as a child and little support coming from the family, that is their memory telling them that. And also my memory telling me that. We're then telling the same story, although there could as well be totally different stories between us.

What is the future thought ‘made of’?

Thought. I don't know what thought is made of.

WHEN does the future thought appear?

Whenever, just randomly. Usually linked to emotions, just like memory thoughts.

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought?

I can't find any difference between them.

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?

This made me laugh because usually I'm convinced that the scenario in the future thought will come true. This 'being convinced' is just a thought, too. There's no point trying to think rationally about the catastrophe future thought, because the believing is still there. That's also a lot of work, trying to calm yourself by thinking "rationally" that this imagined future scenario probably isn't going to happen. A thought saying another thought is wrong.
There's no knowledge of future happenings other than in thoughts. "I'll start working in January" - this whole thing is a concept, January is a made up label and work is a made up label. Work or January cannot be experienced as such, only maybe as sensations (cold, stress).

What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about the past and future?
If there is a difference, how is that difference known exactly?

I looked an image of me as a child playing in the woods and an image of me at a new job in January. Both are images. I see an image of my body as a whole thing from a distance, like I'm watching my body from afar. What is seen in the image isn't the same as what was experienced as a child playing in the woods. An image of the body as it is now isn't the same as seeing the body now. The concept of time is in both of those thoughts: this happened earlier today, and that will happen in a few months. A thought says there is a difference in them "this happened, this hasn't happened yet".

So if you go back to those scary thoughts of the future, what is it that you can discover?

No such thing as harming myself happened. The image was something other than reality. The sensation of cutting my arm with a blade would be totally different than a thought of me doing it. A thought of pain isn't the same as the experience of pain. Just a mental image, a movie of harming myself going on, no harm actually happening. Lot of worry about a thing that wasn't even there.

Hi Kaisa,

V: WHEN does the memory appear?

K: Whenever. Usually in the evening there are more memory thoughts, it's like going through the situations and happenings of the day. Also, strong emotions can evoke memories - if you're upset, you think of what someone did to you that upset you.

Aren’t memory-thoughts always happen now?
Never in the past, never in the future, but always here now?
So it supposed to be about the past, yet it appears now?
V

: WHEN does the future thought appear?

K: Whenever, just randomly. Usually linked to emotions, just like memory thoughts.

I mean the same thing here.
All thoughts about the future are presently appearing thoughts.
Both future and past are here now as presently appearing thoughts, can you see this?

An image of the body as it is now isn't the same as seeing the body now. The concept of time is in both of those thoughts: this happened earlier today, and that will happen in a few months. A thought says there is a difference in them "this happened, this hasn't happened yet".

Do you see that the only difference is the CONTENT of those thoughts and images, nothing else?
The content that is never ever real?

Lot of worry about a thing that wasn't even there.

Yes, it’s good to notice this. Keep an eye on this.

Vivien

Hey Vivien!

Aren’t memory-thoughts always happen now?
Never in the past, never in the future, but always here now?
So it supposed to be about the past, yet it appears now?

Yes, now that you pointed it out I had another look and you're right. When I wrote 'usually in the evening' I was writing from the content of that thought. I saw an image of me sitting on my bed in the evening and having thoughts about the past. Past always appears in the now as a thought. If I say "an hour ago I was remembering that one family dinner in the summer", that is a memory happening now, not an hour ago.

Both future and past are here now as presently appearing thoughts, can you see this?

Yes. The same goes with the future. The image of me yesterday planning what to say when I go see a doctor next week is happening now, not yesterday. And the future situation appears now as an image.

Do you see that the only difference is the CONTENT of those thoughts and images, nothing else?
The content that is never ever real?

Yes this is clear now.

Hi Kaisa,

Previously you wrote:

And also my memory telling me that.

Are thoughts talking to you?
What are thoughts talking to?
Is there someone separate from thoughts that thoughts are talking TO?

Let’s investigate what time really is.

What is time (in this very moment)?
How is time experienced?
What is past and future?
How past or future is experienced?
Does the past or future ‘exists’ other than the contents of thoughts?
Is there proof that you had dinner last night?
Is there any experiential proof whatsoever that the past has ever happened?

Vivien

Are thoughts talking to you?

There was identification as "the one who knows thoughts", so there was an idea of me as something that knows thoughts as well as sensations and all experience. This image turned out to be content of thought, because there isn't something other than what is experienced now.

What are thoughts talking to?

They aren't talking to anything or anyone, there is no receiver. The knowing of thought is simultaneous with the happening of a thought.

Is there someone separate from thoughts that thoughts are talking TO?

No, this is just an idea. There was an image of a void or darkness or space, something in which thinking is happening, but this isn't direct experience. "Thoughts are talking to me": a concept/an image of me as a separate thing from experience. With the memory exercise there was an image of me thinking about the past, so there was identification as something that does the thinking. Such a thing can't be found here and now.

What is time (in this very moment)?

A concept. A sound of clock ticking in the room: thought refers to this as 'time passing'. Growing older: can't be experienced, thought says some sensations are different from what they used to be - "I'm not as fast or energetic as I was when I was a child".

How is time experienced?

It isn't experienced as sensations, sounds, tastes, smells or colours. Time can't be experienced.

What is past and future?

Content of thought.

How past or future is experienced?

As thoughts, it's the content of thoughts.
Studying in the library for a few hours and some pain in the body as well as restlessness: "I've been here for too long, I want to go home". Waking up from an unintended nap and looking at the clock: "I slept for too long". The minutes, hours or years can't be experienced, only thoughts says that it's been a long time or it hasn't been that long. It also depends on the mood. If you're enjoying yourself at a cafe, thought says it can't believe how fast the time went.

Does the past or future ‘exists’ other than the contents of thoughts?

No. A thought of what might happen tomorrow is happening now. A thought can't change that, which is experienced now. There's no going into the future or into the past. An image of me moving to a new house and a new city happening now: this can only be experienced as the now and in the now, not in the future. What is experienced is the appearance of the now, it comes in many forms.

Is there proof that you had dinner last night?

An image of dinner happening. After eating breakfast, there is a sensation of fullness, but a thought says that it's the cause of having eaten. This sensation is proof of the now :)

Is there any experiential proof whatsoever that the past has ever happened?

Looking at the TV in my apartment. It being there could be proof of the past having happened, but the proof of it is in a thought, it's an image of me buying the TV and bringing it here. The TV is here now, the story of getting it in the past is the content of thought. The TV being there isn't proof that the past happened, that is a story. No past or future without thoughts.