Hi Vivien,
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?
No, there is no such entity, anywhere, in any way, shape or form and there never was.
It is nothing more than a pervasive belief, based in thought, which then triggers other thoughts and behaviours.
If such an entity existed, it would be possible to find it, however, even after lots of concentrated pointers and looking, it cannot be found.
It is seen to be nothing more than a belief.
When a belief is seen not to be actually true in experience, it can no longer be believed and loses its power.
As a belief it falls away or gets discarded.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
The concept of being an actual separate entity starts to be formed in a baby when it interacts with its parents and other people and things. Those early interactions lead to a mental representation that there is “me” and “them”. It is the birth of the subject-object split. At some point it solidifies into a very strong belief that I am something separate, I am an entity, separate from all other entities. From that point on, every interaction seems to build on and reinforce that separate “me” view.
As I look back in memories now of my own childhood, I can see so many times that process was in action and then how I started to believe that I was someone!!
This mental construct becomes so strong that it then colours how the world is perceived, creating the whole basis for separation within raw experience, where no such boundaries exist.
With the passing years, all of the experiences and memories start to accumulate and become the story of that separate “me” entity, which becomes the focus of a “self” image. At that point, there is reactivity to any experience that in any way relates to or threatens that “self” and that reactivity starts to become the basis for personality traits, style and behaviours. This combines to create a complex cloud of conditioning , most of which is not consciously known and yet drives thinking and behaviours in relation to the world and other perceived “selves”. But all of that is going on and happening without any actual “self” ever existing. It is all just through belief in “selfing” thoughts.
For many people such conditioning can be very deeply seated and yet is the source of negative self images that can cause a great deal of suffering, such as anxiety, fear, lack of confidence etc. It is rarely questioned why this might be so.
Describe it fully as you see it now.
When it is seen so clearly that the “self” is nothing more than a belief in thought and that no such entity can be found or exists, it starts to remove the lynch pin around which so much of the conditioning is based. For me now, many of the thoughts that arise due to my own conditioning have lost their reference point. They are seen to be empty. They relate to something that is no longer believed in.
At the same time, as a result of the pointing and looking at thoughts, it was seen that there is no thinker here, just thoughts randomly arising and then falling away. So again another anchor point for the “me” doing all the thinking just fell away. Thoughts arise, thoughts are experienced, but their content is no longer believed. Being anchored in actual looking, in raw experience, is the key.
3) How does it feel to see this?
There was a big sense of relief to have finally found the answer or the reason of why all previous seeking had failed. It had always been about trying to do things, practices, meditations, breathing, etc etc. in the hope that somehow something magic would happen!!! Wanting to have experiences that other people had had.
But it was all due to a belief in something that didn’t exist – “me”. It was a belief that “me” needed fixing. “me” needed to learn something, understand something. Never ending and so frustrating.
So it feels amazing that the source of all of that turns out to be a belief in something that never even existed!!
But not as an intellectual understanding but as an experienced reality.
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
There were a number of shifts.
When no “self” was seen through by looking, the question arose “well, what is here then?”.
Just this, raw experience. But at that point, with no “self”, it was realized that there can be no experiencer, no separate entity or looker having or experiencing the experience. In that seeing, the separation collapsed.
The experience here was of the sense of an “I” looking out just dissolved, collapsed, there was just sensing, just what is seen, what is heard, what is felt. And with that suddenly experience seemed so much more direct, immediate. It snapped into sharp focus.
Thoughts have died down quite a bit. The direct experience seemed so still and silent. A lot of the previous “normal” background babbling went quiet. It seems weird to say it, but everything seems suddenly so much more vivid, colours, light, shapes. So real. So direct.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
My guide, Vivien, saw where I was stuck in unquestioned thoughts and asked me to consider how a new born baby experiences the world, especially without thoughts serving to divide reality up. This was also captured in an Alan Watts drawing she sent me, plus a video. All three of these pointers pushed me over. The biggest realization was that the eyes do NOT actually see anything!! They are just photon receptors. I had this ridiculous image that “I” was somehow something inside my head (“behind the eyes”) looking out into the world “through” the eyes like windows! I suddenly saw how crazy that is and at that moment, the “looker” disappeared!!
5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.
The big realization in seeing that the idea of a separate “self” entity is nothing more than a long standing belief in something that doesn’t exist and never ever did is that everything that has ever happened or been “done” in my life was done by no-one. That’s quite a shock, but also a relief in a way!! Everything has worked perfectly all by itself, for millions of reasons, most of which “me” knew nothing about!!
So every decision, intention, choice or appearance of intention or control just happened. It is only after the event, in thought, that a “self” rationale is added, “Oh I did that”, “I made a good/bad decision”, “I’m glad a chose that one”.
So in my experience, life is constantly happening, things appear, thoughts arise and things get done. It never stops. There is always something arising, being experienced.
Just waking up in the morning, thoughts arise about what needs to be done – uninvited! “I” didn’t think the thoughts. “I” didn’t create the thoughts. They just appear. So then, in reaction to the content of a thought (“I need to buy that thing”), there might be a decision thought to go to the shops – “Ok, I’ll go to the shops at 10am” and then “Oooh, I’m hungry” thought and going downstairs to the kitchen happens and something gets eaten. The phone gets picked up and emails or messages are read, which results in more thoughts arising and replies being typed and sent or an image or video being shown to my wife. All of this activity is just going on, happening, with a running parade of thoughts, some related, others not. At no point is an actual decision made by a decider or a choice made by a chooser. Its just a continuous flow of experiences arising, mostly starting with thoughts from nowhere or something else happening, like an email arriving on the phone or a knock on the door.
Before seeing through “self”, it was believed that it must be “me” (inside here somewhere!!) that is doing these things, making the decisions, deciding to think about certain things. The one who is in control, deciding what is going to happen next. The problem is, that is a false claim by no-one, no thing, a non-entity, who can’t be doing any of it, because it doesn’t exist. At first this seems confusing, because there is such a strong belief in being in control, of making decisions, that there is the fear that if “I” just let go or don’t “do”, it will all fall apart, but of course it doesn’t. Because in fact, “you” never did anything in the first place and life happened as it did and carries on as it always did. Enjoy the ride!!
b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.
My life story includes the elements and conditioning of being a husband, a father, a son, a brother and someone who works to earn money. That story involves thoughts and actions that arise through living every day life and conditioning in relation to each of those elements or themes and to the lives of other people. Much of that thought and action therefore revolves around providing for, caring for and being responsible for particular people, close family members, plus other people interacted with more generally in daily life. Much of that can be labelled as “responsibility” for, but in fact simply arose as thoughts and actions over time that resulted in others being looked after, paid for, fed, educated, loved etc. These activities could be described as “I am responsible for her”, “I did that to look after her”, but the addition of an “I” entity who did it isn’t true or necessary. Those actions got done, took place as required, for all sorts of relevant life reasons without a doer or anyone being responsible.
6) Anything to add?
I would just like to add that the LU process of pointing is very effective, because what is pointed at is really the very last place anyone thinks to look!! So the looking was a big step forward to seeing through the problem of a false belief in a separate “me” entity. However, another big step for me was being guided into seeing the huge role thoughts play in distorting raw experience itself. In my case this came down to a residual hidden belief in a “looker”. Despite lots of looking and diligent pointing by Vivien, there was a remaining hidden assumption, created by unquestioned thought concepts or ideas, that “I” was the one looking out, having the experience. Even feeling like “I” was inside the head, behind the eyes!! Vivien spotted this lurking tricky thought structure where an “I” was still hiding and she sent me just the right pointers to break it down.
So, I would say that it is important to realise that belief in the content of thoughts can be very tricky and hard to see in action and those can stand in the way or even alter what is believed to be raw experience, even in the looking.
Thank you, Vivien.
