Looking for some help please

[BeHereNow]

Hi Lynne,

Let's clarify this -

why have I not found the Apple?

What is it about the apple that makes it "apple"?
You see colour, texture, shape, can feel it... if you were from outer space and saw this for the first time, what would make it "apple"?

In terms of the exercises, that is great. You are starting to see the difference between real and imagined. As we Look more deeply, it becomes clear that much of what we think of as real is actually imagined. Let's go deeper with this...

You can look for the real self, but can it be found? Look in each sense- can you find the self? ( is there a self in touch, smelling, tasting, seeing and hearing? Test with each sense.

Sit quietly for a few minutes and explore the self in all these dimensions - Hearing, seeing, feeling, tasting, smelling and thought.

Then consider -
How does a self give commands to the body?

Observe how life flows and whether there is any supposed internal controller. For example:

When having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/colour
Smelling coffee, simply = smell,
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation.
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought.

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual experience) and bring me some examples of plain seeing like i did above...

Looking forward to hearing how this goes!

Warm wishes,
Paula

[Lindylou]

Hi Paula

You see colour, texture, shape, can feel it... if you were from outer space and saw this for the first time, what would make it "apple"?

I see that "Apple" is a label given to this collective experience.

You can look for the real self, but can it be found? Look in each sense- can you find the self? ( is there a self in touch, smelling, tasting, seeing and hearing? Test with each sense.

There is no self in each of these senses, except the confusion of touching oneself...hearing oneself talk - but I think the oneself is just a label again.

How does a self give commands to the body?

A thought can't command anything...

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual experience) and bring me some examples of plain seeing like i did above...

Hearing the plug clunk into the plughole, simply = sound
Feeling the tap turn, simply = sensation
Seeing /hearing water gushing, simply= image, sound
Smelling bath gel, simply = smell,
Feeling the warmth of the water, simply = sensation
Thought about water being hot, simply = thought.

very tired after a day travelling so excuse the short reply :)
Thank you
Lynne

[Lindylou]

Hi Paula

A little more looking...

Look in each sense- can you find the self? ( is there a self in touch, smelling, tasting, seeing and hearing? Test with each sense.

Touching - sensation experienced via whatever is going the touching - e.g. fingers. Generates sound. No Self.
Touching my arm - sensation experienced in two places not one - the part touching and the part being touched. Although it is "me" "doing" both actually there is no self - self is just a thought.

Smelling - smelling honeysuckle may evoke memories but that is just smelling and thinking. Memories (thoughts) may reinforce idea of self but they are just thoughts.

Tasting - taste of delicious food may start the mind recognising constituent parts - i can taste lemon, rosemary, worcester sauce...but the "i" is just a label and there is no self

Seeing - I look into a mirror. The mind labels it "I" see myself. It is just seeing + thought attributed to that experience. Again the labelling reinforces idea of self but it is just a thought. So no self.

Hearing - bird song, silence, mind tends to be quiet. Hearing others talking - mind engages, processes words and then spins it's own take on things - judging, thinking, thinking what to reply... hearing noise...mind thinks "they're awake" and "is it time for breakfast". But all this can and does happen without self - self is just a label

More to follow

Lynne

[Lindylou]

Hi Paula

A little more looking...

Look in each sense- can you find the self? ( is there a self in touch, smelling, tasting, seeing and hearing? Test with each sense.

Touching - sensation experienced via whatever is going the touching - e.g. fingers. Generates sound. No Self.
Touching my arm - sensation experienced in two places not one - the part touching and the part being touched. Although it is "me" "doing" both actually there is no self - self is just a thought.

Smelling - smelling honeysuckle may evoke memories but that is just smelling and thinking. Memories (thoughts) may reinforce idea of self but they are just thoughts.

Tasting - taste of delicious food may start the mind recognising constituent parts - i can taste lemon, rosemary, worcester sauce...but the "i" is just a label and there is no self

Seeing - I look into a mirror. The mind labels it "I" see myself. It is just seeing + thought attributed to that experience. Again the labelling reinforces idea of self but it is just a thought. So no self.

Hearing - bird song, silence, mind tends to be quiet. Hearing others talking - mind engages, processes words and then spins it's own take on things - judging, thinking, thinking what to reply... hearing noise...mind thinks "they're awake" and "is it time for breakfast". But all this can and does happen without self - self is just a label

More to follow

Lynne

[Lindylou]

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual experience) and bring me some examples of plain seeing like i did above...

Last night running the bath I wanted to write "turning the tap" and I realised that "turning the tap" was an action that didnt really fit into any of the categories youd given. Then i realised it could be broken down itself:

Seeing the tap, simply = image, colour
Arm moves towards tap, simply = muscular sensation, moving image
Touching the tap, simply = sensation (smooth, cold)
Twisting movement of wrist, simply =
muscular sensation, moving image

"Arm moves" and "wrist twists" are again actions rather than experiences but they make up part of the activity? I suppose broken down into enough detail they become a series of collective experiences that happen so quickly we're not individually aware of them.

Waking up

Seeing daylight, simply= brightness
Hearing silence, rustle of bed sheets, simply = no sound/sound
Thought "where am I", simply = thought
Tasting the taste in my mouth, simply = taste
Thought "I need to brush my teeth", simply = thought
Feeling of thirst, simply = sensation
Thought "I need some water" = thought

It's all just experience strung together with lots of thoughts :)

Lynne

[Lindylou]

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual experience) and bring me some examples of plain seeing like i did above...

Last night running the bath I wanted to write "turning the tap" and I realised that "turning the tap" was an action that didnt really fit into any of the categories youd given. Then i realised it could be broken down itself:

Seeing the tap, simply = image, colour
Arm moves towards tap, simply = muscular sensation, moving image
Touching the tap, simply = sensation (smooth, cold)
Twisting movement of wrist, simply =
muscular sensation, moving image

"Arm moves" and "wrist twists" are again actions rather than experiences but they make up part of the activity? I suppose broken down into enough detail they become a series of collective experiences that happen so quickly we're not individually aware of them.

Waking up

Seeing daylight, simply= brightness
Hearing silence, rustle of bed sheets, simply = no sound/sound
Thought "where am I", simply = thought
Tasting the taste in my mouth, simply = taste
Thought "I need to brush my teeth", simply = thought
Feeling of thirst, simply = sensation
Thought "I need some water" = thought

It's all just experience strung together with lots of thoughts :)

Lynne

[BeHereNow]

Lynne! This is amazing Looking! Congratulations!

broken down into enough detail they become a series of collective experiences that happen so quickly we're not individually aware of them.

That is correct, you are totally getting it. We think things "are" or concepts are "real" because we lump direct experience together and aren't Looking deeply enough. When we really Look, it all becomes so much clearer and more simple.

It's all just experience strung together with lots of thoughts :)

You got it. Activity is happening all the time. We add on so many more layers of thought to it that we begin to think we are making things happen, or they should be one way or another way... once we notice thought and are able to label it and separate it out from Actual Experience, there is Freedom.

Now let's look at thoughts more directly...

You may have noticed in your excellent Looking that the mind acts like a labelling machine. Whatever is happening, we add language to it but this language and thinking is actually one step removed from reality. Some words refer to something real, some don't.

Close your eyes after reading this paragraph and find that which is always present.

What is the feeling?
Is it personal?
Or is it an impersonal sensation plus labeling of the mind as "me"?

Over the weekend, spend some time Looking at thoughts:

Where do they come from?
Can you control them?
What influences thoughts?
Do you know what your next thought is going to be?
Can a thought be stopped in the middle?
What do you know for sure?

Once a day, sit for 5-10 minutes and notice the mind as a labeling machine:

Notice the body breathing. Look - is it breathing by itself of is there a breather? Label says “I breathe”. Is there an I that does the breathing? How about when you sleep? Does breathing need a breather?

Same with walking, eating, listening to music, dancing. Every experience is followed by “I did this” commentary. But look closer; is there a walker, an eater, a dancer? If the language says that there is an object doing action, is that true in your direct experience?

Play with the labeling for a bit, notice that label I is just a label, a word that precedes other words in the labeling. Right now reading happens effortlessly and if you just stop for a second, thoughts appear and start labeling………I is one of the thoughts. I is not a thinker, it's a thought arising in awareness.

Looking forward to hearing how this goes for you!

Have a beautiful weekend, Lynne :-)

Warm wishes,
Paula

[BeHereNow]

I will respond to you on Monday as I don't have access to a computer over the weekend.

Cheers,
Paula

[Lindylou]

Hi Paula
I hope you had a lovely weekend and thank you for the encouraging comments.

Close your eyes after reading this paragraph and find that which is always present.

What is the feeling?
Is it personal?
Or is it an impersonal sensation plus labeling of the mind as "me"?

The feeling is peaceful, spacious. It is sensation. There is an awareness of breathing and then the mind comes in and says "that's me breathing". So its impersonal + labelling as "me" which makes it feel/appear like its personal. But I see this is an illusion.

spend some time Looking at thoughts:

Where do they come from?
Can you control them?
What influences thoughts?
Do you know what your next thought is going to be?
Can a thought be stopped in the middle?
What do you know for sure?

Thoughts come from nowhere - they just arrive.

I thought I could control my thoughts, but that is probably more influencing than control. So on reflection, i dont think thoughts can be controlled.

Thoughts are influenced by surroundings, memories, "personal goals", TV, effectively any form of input. I guess thoughts are the output, yet they are input too because we can string related thoughts together.

No I don't know what my next thought will be. That's why I don't know where they come from and why I don't think I control them.

I think I could change a thought in the middle - eg if i recognised a negative thought pattern I could consciously decide to replace it with a different thought.

I don't know anything for sure anymore. If "I" dont exist how can I even say "I am"?

[Lindylou]

Part 2...

f

ind that which is always present.
What is the feeling?

To add to previous comments...the feeling is just being, stillness

What do you know for sure?

Breathing is happening, life is living.....there is no "I/me" in control of things

Once a day, sit for 5-10 minutes and notice the mind as a labeling machine:

The mind doesn't stop. It's identifying, comparing, remembering, forward projectioning all the time. I guess a lot of labelling is necessary to enable ease of communication, however if we communicated through thought pictures the labelling would not be so important. The labelling is a kind of shorthand, so that "apple" for example conjures up the whole array of experience associated with it.

Notice the body breathing. Look - is it breathing by itself of is there a breather? Label says “I breathe”. Is there an I that does the breathing? How about when you sleep? Does breathing need a breather?

The body is breathing itself. Awake and asleep. No "I" doing the breathing. The breathing rate is varied automatically depending on the activity. However - when "I" become aware of the body breathing, i can temporarily stop breathing, or slow down breathing. So I suppose this is thought intervening in the breathing process. If there was difficulty breathing, eg anxiety, asthma attack, breathing would become a conscious rather than unconscious process. But the exchange of oxygen in the lungs etc is still happening automatically without a breather.

Same with walking, eating, listening to music, dancing. Every experience is followed by “I did this” commentary. But look closer; is there a walker, an eater, a dancer?

It doesn't matter what the activity is, there is no doer, it's just happening.

If the language says that there is an object doing action, is that true in your direct experience?

No! But it does feel like there is when the mind starts up :)

Thank you

Lynne

[BeHereNow]

Hi Lynne,

I hope you had a lovely weekend!

Thank you for your answers. You are getting so clear! It is lovely to watch. I can feel the ease and peace as you start to see, amazing.

The feeling is peaceful, spacious. It is sensation.

its impersonal + labelling as "me" which makes it feel/appear like its personal

Beautifully said, that is exactly right.

Thoughts come from nowhere - they just arrive.

YES!

I think I could change a thought in the middle - eg if i recognised a negative thought pattern I could consciously decide to replace it with a different thought.

We will actually work on this next, self as thinker and chooser. You will Look to see if this is actually true. Here is an exercise:

Take two objects/possibilities, of which you might ordinarily choose either e.g., coffee or tea, blue pen or black pen, salt and pepper, then sit and see if you can find the choice-point where you could go either way. Describe how choosing happens.

Can you please locate where is this "I" choosing something?

Here is another exercise:

1. Place both hands on a table in front of you, palms down.
2. When you have done that, rest for a moment and then raise one hand in the air but not the other.

Don't go to thoughts, examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:

What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise? Why that hand but not the other ?
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing?
What is it that is controlling the hand?
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
Can anything be found that makes the hand move?
How is the decision made?

Please write what comes...

Warm wishes,
Paula

[Lindylou]

Hi Paula

Take two objects/possibilities, of which you might ordinarily choose either e.g., coffee or tea, blue pen or black pen, salt and pepper, then sit and see if you can find the choice-point where you could go either way. Describe how choosing happens.

tea/coffee
stimulus - thirst, boredom, habit, friend comes round
thought - i fancy a drink
thought - what shall I have
thought - I fancy a coffee
thought - what time is it? is it too late for coffee?
thought - it's only 1pm that's ok
thought - but I've already had two coffees today maybe threes a bit too much
thought - maybe I should have tea
thought - but I don't really want tea
thought - maybe I'll just have a glass of water
choice - glass of water
thought - oh maybe I will have a coffee
thought - but you're trying to drink less coffee. Water would be better for you
choice - glass of water
thought - but....

and the process is repeated at continually looping thought until a "final" choice is made

Can you please locate where is this "I" choosing something?

It's not "I" choosing it's just thought

1. Place both hands on a table in front of you, palms down.
2. When you have done that, rest for a moment and then raise one hand in the air but not the other.

Don't go to thoughts, examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:
What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise?

It kind of just happens. There must be a thought that directs it but it's so quick it's imperceptible.

Why that hand but not the other ?

I have absolutely no idea. It just happens.

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing?

Nope.

What is it that is controlling the hand?

Other than electrical impulses from the brain directing the hand - it just seems to control itself

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

Nope

Can anything be found that makes the hand move?

The hand just seems to move itself

How is the decision made?

The decision seems to be made by itself...like the movement and choosing, it just seems to happen by itself. The set of instructions are just being followed...effortlessly and without apparent thought. Yes sometimes there is thought, but with or without thought it is just happening

Thank you

Lynne

[BeHereNow]

Hi Lynne,

Great Looking!

It's not "I" choosing it's just thought

You got it.

The set of instructions are just being followed...effortlessly and without apparent thought. Yes sometimes there is thought, but with or without thought it is just happening

Beautifully said. Amazing, isn't it??

Let's go deeper into this experience of Looking directly at any supposed "controller" or "self".

"Get up… walk slowly…is there a controller that controls walking, or is there just walking?"

Next, sit quietly for a few minutes and observe:

In direct experience, can you find an “I” that experiences experience?
Is there a seer separate from the seen?
Is there a hearer that hears?

Look deeply...

Is there a gap between experienced and experiencer? Is there an experiencer, a center to which life happens?

Then, spend some time in nature. Watch trees, animals, babies, other people. See how everything moves and flows - trees, grass, animals, birds, humans, thoughts, feelings, the body that is here now. Notice that thoughts are arising and passing away, just like all things in nature.

Notice life, aliveness and how everything is happening effortlessly. Turn the focus outside. Notice how everything simply is. perceiving is happening. It's here, now, alive. See how seeing just happens.

Then Look:

Is there anyone behind the eyes, a watcher, observer?

Looking forward to your answers!

Warm wishes,
Paula

[Lindylou]

Hi Paula

Thank you for the encouragement!

I struggled with some of these today...

"Get up… walk slowly…is there a controller that controls walking, or is there just walking?"

The same as the hand choosing the body is just following instructions - on its own.

In direct experience, can you find an “I” that experiences experience?

No

Is there a seer separate from the seen?
Is there a hearer that hears?

No separate entity that sees or hears. However surely something is experiencing? Consciousness?

Is there a gap between experienced and experiencer?

I don't know. I don't know if there is an experiencer (that isn't i/me/myself) or if thats just a label. So until I know whether there is an experiencer and what it is I can't answer the question. Sorry I'm confused.

Is there an experiencer, a center to which life happens?

As an entity that you can point to, no. But something must be experiencing?

Notice how everything simply is. perceiving is happening. It's here, now, alive. See how seeing just happens.

Then Look:

Is there anyone behind the eyes, a watcher, observer?

The eyes are definitely used to see because if I close them I can't see anymore. But if there is no seer that sees there can't be anything behind the eyes?

Sorry I don't think I'm getting it tonight

Best wishes

Lynne

[Lindylou]

Ok another go at some of this...

Is there a seer separate from the seen?

No I don't think so. I think there IS a seer but in the way that "God" is not a man with a beard sitting upstairs on a throne, but is everywhere, the seer is everywhere.

Is there a hearer that hears?

The same applies to the hearer.

Is there a gap between experienced and experiencer?

No they are the same thing. But my mind is telling me this I haven't found it from looking. I've read a lot before we started the process and so my concern is that I'm "cheating" - like being asked to read a line of letters in an eyesight test when you already know what the letters are.

Is there an experiencer, a center to which life happens?

Yes but the experiencer is consciousness. Not sure it's central though.
Feels like this body is being lived or run by a program or set of instructions - constantly altering effortlessly as a result of experience

Still confused Paula!