The Gate

Hi Ronald,

I really enjoyed your points in your last post:

There is reminding but is there some-one who is reminding ???.

Thoughts are powerless…."going on a ride that you don’t want to go on", is just another thought, isn’t it ???!!!!

Yes it is just a thought - the answer can't be found in thoughts - it's found in silence and in everything that is just happening in the moment.

a "huge" thought is in front of you, the losing my job (and the consequences)-thought…the my son having an emotional breakdown (and the consequences)-thought……everything that’s not happening in the moment is not real….no problem.

Yep, these are just "things that are happening" - the thoughts make them problems - or believing or attaching to the thoughts make them problems.

Que Sera and Let it Be - funny I often think of those lyrics as well.

I was reading the Gate Crashers Handbook - some very powerful/helpful stuff in those exchanges. It seems like the answer is in investigating that there is no "you" and that nothing is personal - only impersonal. It sounds like you've got totally convinced/see it for yourself in order to get through the gate. Also, coming to the conclusion that thoughts are just thoughts and really don't actually define anything.

I think "you're" saying that I should be like the tree in order to go through the gate (which I'm actually already through but don't know it yet). I should just bend and sway with whatever comes at me - drink water and soak up the sun. I am "noticing" the trees a lot more lately - I notice how they light up in the sun and their leaves dance in the wind.

I'll keep looking at those trees.

Thanks again.

Peace

Kevin

Dear Kevin,

What a pleasure to read your answers, so clear, so from the heart !!!!

Yes it is just a thought - the answer can't be found in thoughts - it's found in silence and in everything that is just happening in the moment.

The moment is the answer!!!

Yep, these are just "things that are happening" - the thoughts make them problems - or believing or attaching to the thoughts make them problems

And not even that…….because the “problem" is also a ………….. ;-)

It seems like the answer is in investigating that there is no "you" and that nothing is personal - only impersonal

.

As you have seen and wrote yourself just “things that are happening”.......

It sounds like you've got totally convinced/see it for yourself in order to get through the gate.

Be careful with what things sounds or look like, look for yourself.....liberation is an ongoing process....deeper and deeper....going through the gate is a big step....and in a way....everything is just beginning.

I was reading the Gate Crashers Handbook - some very powerful/helpful stuff in those exchanges. It seems like the answer is in investigating that there is no "you" and that nothing is personal - only impersonal. It sounds like you've got totally convinced/see it for yourself in order to get through the gate. Also, coming to the conclusion that thoughts are just thoughts and really don't actually define anything

.

Some impersonal question :

1)Is there an I or a you? Has there ever been?
Yes/No…..please explain your answer…..
2)Are things that are happening personal or impersonal?
Personal/impersonal…. please explain your answer…..
3) Do you see this for yourself?
Yes/No…..please explain your answer……
4) Are thought just thoughts?
Yes/No…..please explain your answer…
5)Do thoughts really define anything?
Yes/No please explain your answer…..
6) Are you like a tree? (do you drink water and soak up the sun)
Yes/No….please explain your answer…
7)Are you through the Gateless Gate?
Yes/No…..please explain your answer….

(Close the book, no cheating…;-) !!!!
(You can share it with a tree!!)

I’m looking forward to your answers,

Peace,

Ronald

Hi Ronald,

Here are my answers to your questions:

Some impersonal question :

1)Is there an I or a you? Has there ever been?
Yes/No…..please explain your answer…..

No, the "I" is a group of thoughts/feelings that have been built up over a persons life. When there are no thoughts, the "I" disappears (which proves there is no I) and you're left with silence/life happening - which no one can claim as "their own".


2)Are things that are happening personal or impersonal?
Personal/impersonal…. please explain your answer…..

Impersonal, thoughts make them personal but thoughts are just "energy" and there is no one to own thoughts so everything is impersonal.

3) Do you see this for yourself?
Yes/No…..please explain your answer……

Not really, I understand it on an intellectual level - but I don't feel as thought the "I" is gone.

4) Are thought just thoughts?
Yes/No…..please explain your answer…

Yes, thoughts are just thoughts. There is no control over them. Thoughts trigger an action. That is where it gets tricky for me.

5)Do thoughts really define anything?

No, Thoughts label and judge but they are wrong much of the time. A situation in life can trigger thoughts base on one's conditioning. A job is lost - thought = this is bad. A child is sick - thought = I feel bad - I feel helpless.


6) Are you like a tree? (do you drink water and soak up the sun)
Yes/No….please explain your answer…

Yes, I am very much like the tree, however, I experience thoughts - maybe the tree experiences thoughts as well(?)

7)Are you through the Gateless Gate?
Yes/No…..please explain your answer….

Yes and No - Yes: Everyone is actually through the gate but they are tricked by the "I" thought. No: I am still being tricked by the I thought even thought "I know it's a trick". My perspective has not shifted.

Hi Ronald,

Can you comment on this exchange I had with a Non-Dual author last fall? I think you'll be able to recognize that I have been stuck in the same spot for a while.

Thanks!


I really enjoy your blog and I think you have a great writing style.

I have one question regarding your 8/27/11 entry. You stated that "awakening is not progressive". However, Nisaragadatta and Ramana spoke about being progressively "ripe" for spiritual awakening and suggested specific practices like staying with the "I Am/Self". Richard Rose also wrote and talked about seekers being on different rungs on the spiritual ladder to realizing the "Truth" - and that seekers on the higher rungs should help seekers on the lower rungs. Can you clarify your apparent differences with these teachers? (I have a feeling you probably don't have any differences and I'm misinterpreting what your saying.)

Thanks and please keep up the great writing.

Kevin

Great to hear from you. And thank you for your warm words.

It's understandable to feel some confusion when I state that awakening isn't progressive, and Nisargadatta and Ramana speak about seekers being "ripe" and Richard Rose makes reference to the "spiritual ladder." (I haven't read much of Rose, so I'll take your word on that.) The bottom line is that awareness can be recognized by practically anyone who can give some heed or contemplation to the pointers, writings, and suggestions from a self-realized teacher or writer. A pause in thought--and a seeing that there is an immeasurable presence of awareness within that pause--is all that is needed. Truly, it is that simple...and that extraordinary.

I hope that helps to clarify things. And thanks again for writing. :)


Thanks for your prompt response.

I think I know what you're saying. I have (easily) recognized the presence of awareness - its peacefulness and its awesome vastness. However, I have not "realized" this "awareness" as the essence of who I am. I am still bonded to my personal self/"I thought" - unlike you and the aforementioned teachers.) I "think" these teachers were trying to help others realize that who they really are is this "presence of awareness" and lose their bondage to the "I thought" which creates unnecessary suffering. I think they were also stating that some are ahead of others or closer in "realizing" who they really are.

Let me know what you think.

Regards,

Kevin


Hello Kevin,

Who knows what Nisargadatta and Ramana were attempting to say. They simply might have been wrongly translated or misunderstood. But no one is really "ahead" of anyone else when it comes to this understanding.

And yet, there is something to be said for the seeker who is earnest, gracious, and alert to any cessations in thought while--say--reading a pause-worthy book, strolling across a tranquil park, or having a delicious cup of tea or coffee.

Or it can happen while going to the bathroom or washing a pile of greasy dishes. There is really no predicting it. And that being the case, no one can truly be "ahead" of anybody else. You are what you are at this very moment. It's merely a matter of seeing or understanding that--not "attaining" it or working "towards" it.

Dear Kevin,

You show a lot of clarity en honesty in your answers, thank you!!!

No: I am still being tricked by the I thought even thought "I know it's a trick.

Tricked or not tricked it’s all life enfolding itself, no I , no doer, no” experiencer.”

Conditioning is just repeating old survival thoughts…..because there is so much…action , when the conditioning is working, thoughts pop up, feelings arise, emotions arise an in this hectic situation it’s hard to stay clear…
trying to find your way out of the illusion, by thinking, reading or discussing, is also a conditioned loop and part of the illusion…..just ride it out and there will be a moment when the energy is going down, then the contact with the now, with reality will be sensible again….49 years of condition can drop away and can come back…especially standing in the Gate!!!!!!!.…an drop away…:-),it’s all part of the game…called life!!


Exercise: For the next time and the next time and the next time when there is an I-thought …. “I’m” tricked.

just look deep into it……
Is there somebody that can be tricked?
Is there somebody who is tricking that somebody?
Is there somebody who is aware of somebody that is tricked by somebody?
Is there somebody who is aware of somebody that's tricking somebody?
(tricky questions ;-)

Can you comment on this exchange I had with a Non-Dual author last fall? I think you'll be able to recognize that I have been stuck in the same spot for a while.

‘


Stuck or not stuck it’s all life enfolding itself, no I, no doer, no “experiencer”

Is there an I that can be stuck, that's the question ?


Mediation(use an alarm)
The Monologue:
For 20 minutes keep on talking aloud all the thoughts that are popping up. Start with a soft voice and let it become louder and louder.
Don’t stop talking , when you don’t know what to say , say: I don’t know what to say…or repeat what you said before…don’t stop talking!!!
After 20 minutes stay silent………………(for as long as you want).............


Peace

Ronald

Thanks Ronald,

I'll try the meditation exercise when I'm have some time.

Lot's of frustration and getting bombarded by thoughts. I know what you mean about energy increasing and decreasing. Making silence easier and harder to experience.

Hi Ronald,

I tried the mediation and thought about your questions below. I'm starting to see that the mind plays a lot of tricks trying to stay in control and everything outside of solitude is just "thoughts" that are no mine. Tuesday morning I had quite a headache - I thought that I may be reaching/trying too hard to see this. Yesterday I just tried to relax while trying to "see". While trying to "see the truth" in a very relaxed state I get this weird sensation of nervousness and then I feel like I'm going to "black-out". About two months ago I had this sensation that the room was spinning extremely fast - so bad that I felt nauseous the entire day. A doctor told me I probably had some type of virus - I thought equilibrium may have been off. I do start to get the same sensation when I'm relaxed and trying to take a stand in the open space/void while just observing thoughts.

Sorry about all of the medical talk today - probably just stress.

Hope you're doing well.

Peace

Kevin

Dear Kevin,

Good to hear from you, I’m doing fine, thank you.

I'm starting to see that the mind plays a lot of tricks trying to stay in control

.

Ask yourself what is the worst thing that could happen when there is no one in control??
Then look what is happening right now in this moment…with nobody home….nobody in control….what is happening right now ???

En then …look behind it….what are those thoughts preventing you from seeing…what’s behind the control…look…..!!!

Yesterday I just tried to relax while trying to "see". While trying to "see the truth" in a very relaxed state I get this weird sensation of nervousness and then I feel like I'm going to "black-out".

These are reactions that can appear when entering the gate.

Invite them in, Kevin !!, when you are sitting in meditation, what’s the worst thing that can happen?? Be willing to black-out !!!!..be willing to die !!!!…be curious …..what’s behind the fear…..???


It’s possible…..let go…!!!!.

Ronald

Hi Ronald,

Here are my responses to your comments/questions below:

Ask yourself what is the worst thing that could happen when there is no one in control??
Then look what is happening right now in this moment…with nobody home….nobody in control….what is happening right now ??? En then …look behind it….what are those thoughts preventing you from seeing…what’s behind the control…look…..!!!

The worst thing that could happen? I'm honestly not sure since I've always felt that there's an I in control - even though there really is no one in control.

What is happening right now? Thoughts and life.

What's going on behind it? Space, silence.

What are those thoughts preventing me from seeing this? Just more thoughts. What's behind the control? Habitual thoughts - interest in the thoughts. Who's interested? I don't know - more thoughts(?)

These are reactions that can appear when entering the gate.

Invite them in, Kevin !!, when you are sitting in meditation, what’s the worst thing that can happen?? Be willing to black-out !!!!..be willing to die !!!!…be curious …..what’s behind the fear…..??? It’s possible…..let go…!!!!.

Things seem to be alternating from very contracted back to relax. Ironically, I had another episode with vertigo last night. I'm not sure. I'm not sure it has anything to do with entering the gate - one of my ears/sinuses was congested. Or it may have something to do with trying too hard to see???? I don't mind blacking out, but the intense vertigo is extremely uncomfortable.

It seems like I can let go and see who I really am for very short periods of time - it doesn't seem to "stick" - or rather, the me doesn't disappear for long.

I hope this helps.

Peace

Kevin

Hi Kevin,

Thanks for your responses, you are really into it, I can appreciate that, let’s continue!!!

I'm honestly not sure since I've always felt that there's an I in control

Because you believed the lie that you have been told, as most of the people do.
When there is an I-thought the body reacts with a feeling (and that is mostly the proof,that what we thought is right, although we started with a lie, the body only reacts on the content of the lie), than action, thought, feeling…the loop!!!!!

even though there really is no one in control

.

Exactly, nobody in control, nobody home, everything goes automatically!!!

What is happening right now? Thoughts and life.

Why the separation ???
Thoughts are also life enfolding spontaneously, although the content of the thought maybe conditioned and not true!!!!

What's going on behind it? Space, silence.

Yes, like the movie screen, untouched by the movie that’s projected on it, always there !!! ...how does it feel to see this, Kevin????

Things seem to be alternating from very contracted back to relax

One believed thought can make the difference between heaven and hell !!!

Ironically, I had another episode with vertigo last night. I'm not sure. I'm not sure it has anything to do with entering the gate - one of my ears/sinuses was congested. Or it may have something to do with trying too hard to see???? I don't mind blacking out, but the intense vertigo is extremely uncomfortable.

Who is trying too hard?

Vertigo is extremely uncomfortable, for whom??

It seems like I can let go and see who I really am for very short periods of time - it doesn't seem to "stick" - or rather, the me doesn't disappear for long.

What is seen cannot be unseen, once you see that Santa isn’t real, you can never un-see that!!!.

So look again is there a separate I, managing your life ???? Yes /No

When the answer is Yes, we have to start all over again..Ha Ha Ha !!!..and we will do it!!!!


When the answer is No, you have to look at the following questions and do the exercise.

Can something that doesn’t exist appear and disappear?????....or is it that the I-thought that automatically pops up and automatically fades away!!!!

Look at this Kevin !!! Beginners Mind …..Moment after moment after moment……!!!!

I want you to have a little notebook with you and every time, when the movie starts, when the “real I” appears make a notation of what is happening, a few words ,what’s the situation and how did you know/feel/notice that the I – thought became a ”real I”, was there a reason !!!
Was there need for a “ real I” ????? What would happen if there was no “real I “ or what’s the story told in the movie? What’s the drama……??.............then follow your breath……and look at the silent ,spacious, screen.!

What’s real and what isn’t ?
The movie or the screen????????????????????????????????????

Enjoy the movie it’s just a movie !!!

With love,

Ronald

Thanks Ronald.

Great points once again. I am "really into" it and want to see this through until the illusion is gone.

It seems that I keep thinking the thoughts are "me" when in fact they are a miniscule part who I am.

Yes, like the movie screen, untouched by the movie that’s projected on it, always there !!! ...how does it feel to see this, Kevin????

Yes, not sure why but I keep jumping back into the movie forgetting that I'm the screen.

One believed thought can make the difference between heaven and hell !!!

I see it but can't break the habit. Maybe I'm not really "seeing it" because as you say once you see it, you can not un-see it.

So look again is there a separate I, managing your life ???? Yes /No

No, but there are thoughts that I incorrectly believe are running or affecting my life. (I know - there is no I to believe anything and it's not "my" life - it's just life which is really who I am.)

Can something that doesn’t exist appear and disappear?????....or is it that the I-thought that automatically pops up and automatically fades away!!!!

It seems like the later. They're just thoughts - if there were no thoughts, this would be a lot easier.

Look at this Kevin !!! Beginners Mind …..Moment after moment after moment……!!!!

I've read and thought about this quote many times. I get the gist, but our minds are not beginners minds - they are conditioned unlike an infants.

I want you to have a little notebook with you and every time, when the movie starts, when the “real I” appears make a notation of what is happening, a few words ,what’s the situation and how did you know/feel/notice that the I – thought became a ”real I”, was there a reason !!!
Was there need for a “ real I” ????? What would happen if there was no “real I “ or what’s the story told in the movie? What’s the drama……??.............then follow your breath……and look at the silent ,spacious, screen.!

Do you want reports of what exactly is going in the note book?

As I reported before, at times there are strange physical sensations at the crown of my head, neverousness/jitters like I'm going to walk thought the gate - other times calm and then right back into the fictitious self.

What’s real and what isn’t ? The movie or the screen????????????????????????????????????

The screen is real, the movie is my minds "perception" of life/what's going on. The mind shouldn't be that involved in what's going on.

Forgot to mention that I'll keep looking/investigating until who I really am becomes clear.

Thank you Kevin,

I am "really into" it and want to see this through until the illusion is gone.

The illusion is also part of life, let it be, welcome it, you cannot forbid a dream to appear, each night they appear that’s how it is. An when you wake up they are gone, although you sometimes remember them and then you know what it was, NOT REALITY, BUT A DREAM. So when there are daydreams of an I, now en then, what’s the problem??? A bit later you will know, oh, it was just a daydream of an I, you laugh, you take a breath an look around…and you remember…there is no separate I ………….And that is seeing straight through the illusion!!!!

It seems that I keep thinking the thoughts are "me" when in fact they are a miniscule part who I am.

Thoughts are thoughts, they are no part of you Kevin, not even a miniscule, because there is no you.
The movie will never be part of the screen, never!!!!

I see it but can't break the habit.

Old habits die hard!!

Maybe I'm not really "seeing it" because as you say once you see it, you can not un-see it.

You can be hypnotized now and then, but do you really belief in a sepperate self, Kevin?

It seems like the later. They're just thoughts - if there were no thoughts, this would be a lot easier.

Why? if there weren’t fairy tales would life be easier? A fairy tale is a nice or scary story, you can have fun with it, or cry over it ,but you know it’s a fairy tale. A separate I is also a interesting story/fairy tale, enjoy it or be sad about it, share it with others, it’s just a story!!!

I've read and thought about this quote many times. I get the gist, but our minds are not beginners minds - they are conditioned unlike an infants.

It’s not about thinking it’s about using your senses, every moment is new, you are new in every moment, you can never step twice in the same river!!!

I want you to have a little notebook with you and every time, when the movie starts, when the “real I” appears make a notation of what is happening, a few words ,what’s the situation and how did you know/feel/notice that the I – thought became a ”real I”, was there a reason !!!
Was there need for a “ real I” ????? What would happen if there was no “real I “ or what’s the story told in the movie? What’s the drama……??.............then follow your breath……and look at the silent ,spacious, screen.!

Do you want reports of what exactly is going in the note book?

I would like that ,so te picture can become more clear!...keep also track of how long you are hypnotized...before you notice (wake up) that you were hypnotized.

As I reported before, at times there are strange physical sensations at the crown of my head, neverousness/jitters like I'm going to walk thought the gate - other times calm and then right back into the fictitious self.

Different states, feelings and sensations come and go, they arise spontaneously, as everything does in life.

The screen is real, the movie is my minds "perception" of life/what's going on. The mind shouldn't be that involved in what's going on.

Being involved in the movie is part of the fun/drama of life, that ‘s why people go to the movies, to the opera, read books…..nothing wrong with that…but when they go home or close de book, they know it was just a story, and go on with reality.

Forgot to mention that I'll keep looking/investigating until who I really am becomes clear.

That’s the spirit!!!...but be careful that it’s not a looking for something…............................. .

What about..... I am not….or I don't know ?

.......life just is, celebrate it.....!!!!!

With love,

Ronald

Thanks for your comments Ronald.

The illusion is also part of life, let it be, welcome it, you cannot forbid a dream to appear, each night they appear that’s how it is. An when you wake up they are gone, although you sometimes remember them and then you know what it was, NOT REALITY, BUT A DREAM. So when there are daydreams of an I, now en then, what’s the problem??? A bit later you will know, oh, it was just a daydream of an I, you laugh, you take a breath an look around…and you remember…there is no separate I ………….And that is seeing straight through the illusion!!!!

It seems as though I must monitor myself quite often to ensure that I'm not getting hung up in the dream. If I don't, I remain in the dream. This takes work(?)

Thoughts are thoughts, they are no part of you Kevin, not even a miniscule, because there is no you.
The movie will never be part of the screen, never!!!!

I thought that I was "everything" - life itself. I am the flowers, the trees, the sky - people. I am life itself - I am one with everything (?)

Old habits die hard!!

Does this mean I must work hard to break the old habits? Keep realizing that there is no one to work on habits?

You can be hypnotized now and then, but do you really belief in a sepperate self, Kevin?

I seem to get hypnotized quite a bit. I've read that I can't just believe it - I must "see" it for myself. When I investigate, I can find no separate self - but this doesn't seem to be doing the trick.

That’s the spirit!!!...but be careful that it’s not a looking for something…............................. .

What about..... I am not….or I don't know ?

.......life just is, celebrate it.....!!!!!

I should have stated that I will keep looking to ascertain that there is no separate "I".

Dear Kevin,

I thought that I was "everything" - life itself. I am the flowers, the trees, the sky - people. I am life itself - I am one with everything (?)

Everything comes from the same source, like all the waves are part of the ocean, but all waves are differently formed. Look around thousands of different forms all from the same source, all without a separate self, the body‘s, the trees, the thoughts, the feelings, the stars……..

The paradox is that : All is one and all is different !!

When I investigate, I can find no separate self -

Of course not, because there isn’t any!!!
This is the actual seeing of no-self, in the moment !!!!!

but this doesn't seem to be doing the trick.

Why are you clinging to a separate self ??. Ask yourself why ???!!!!

This is your ultimate question!!! Why the hell am I clinging to a separate self even when I investigate and cannot find a self ???!!!...Why !?

No escape , just go for it…..Why the hell am I clinging to a separate self ???!!!

With love,

Ronald