West Cork Ireland- asking for Kay

[forgetmenot]

Hey Ado,

Nice looking once again! You are doing great! :)

Can you hold onto or let go of sound? If not, then why would you be able to hold onto or let go of thought?

No I can’t let go or hold onto sound cos it's just there. So yes I can see now that thoughts just come and go of their own accord end of story.

Nice! Yes, thoughts just come and go of their own accord. Let’s have a good look at the nature of thought next.

It's as simple as that. Just look and see what is actually present - and what is only imaginary.

What is actually present is just experience with no experiencer. Thank you so much for helping me clarify all this. Going on actual experience is such simple almost childlike way to uncover the truth and yet it can seem so easy to pass it by most of the time.

It is so very simple…but the so called mind can’t deal with simple and likes to over complicate everything. There is just this moment with whatever is appearing (ie AE)...the rest is thought.

Okay…looking at the nature of thought.

Look carefully when doing this exercise and do it several times if necessary. Please answer each question individually.

Sit quietly for about 30 minutes and notice the arising thoughts. Just let them appear as they appear. Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear, without you doing anything at all.

Where are they coming from and going to?

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?
Can you predict your next thought?

Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?
Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?
Can you stop thinking a thought in the middle?

It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence. Or is it just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that "one thought follows another thought"?

Kay
xx

[Clashnacrona]

Hi Kay,

Its getting late here for me so ill do this exercise in the morning.

Thanks

Ado

[Clashnacrona]

Hi Kay,

Thanks for your encouraging words. I did the exercise twice for thirty mins once soon after waking up and then again after having breakfast. The first time it was easy enough to stay with it and notice the thoughts probably because I had had a good sleep and felt rested and content. The second time I found it a little more challenging to stay disengaged from the thoughts. If they were thoughts that I liked I would automatically go with them before catching myself and pulling back. Also with some of the judgmental negative thoughts I found difficult to detach from I suppose it's difficult to give up the habit of a lifetime.

Where are they coming from and going to?

They seem to come out of a fog of nowhere and dissolve into the same kind of vague fog as well.

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

When I wasn’t engaged with them they just appeared by themselves.

Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?

No

Can you predict your next thought?

Not if I’m not actively engaging with them.


Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?


Again when I’m not actively engaged with the thoughts I have no control but if I am engaging with them like for example having a fantasy about winning the lotto then I can fall under the illusion that I’m in control of the thoughts cos I like them.

Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?

Some painful thoughts did appear like judging myself for procrastinating which I had no control over.

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?

Not while standing back as an observer and trying to ignore their content no I can’t choose their content.

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

No

Can you stop thinking a thought in the middle?

I don’t think so its like rolling down a hill on a bike with no brakes once the thought starts I have no control to stop its momentum. If I’m in meditation I can notice the thought and not engage with it but I can’t unthink it if that makes sense.

It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence. Or is it just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that "one thought follows another thought"?

The key with all the above seems to be when ‘I’ don’t actively engage with thinking it just goes on by itself and seems to have a life of its own.There is no particular order or sequence of thought. I did notice that ‘thinking’ or ego or whatever you want to call it will actively try and engage me almost like a child looking for attention the more I stand back from it. It does this by throwing thoughts it knows will engage me like any kind of fantasy/obsession, be it winning the lotto meeting a partner getting my dream job sexual fantasy cos it knows these hooks are strong and usually work to take me away from the moment which is what it wants. Not sure if any of that makes sense but that what was came up for me during the exercise particularly the second time round.

Take Care

Ado

[forgetmenot]

Hello Ado,

Let's try something else and then come back to that particular thought exercise.



Here is a step-by-step description of how to look at thoughts. First thing is to sit for at least 10-15 minutes quietly somewhere, several times throughout your day. Close the eyes and just notice thoughts. Don’t engage with any thought, just notice them.

b] Looking for the gap is a way to slow the thoughts, as the objective of this exercise is to observe each and every thought as it arises and subsides.[/b]

1. Notice the current thought that is present.
Like when you sit observing the body, a thought might arise “this is my feet” or “here is a pain” or “my breathing is too quick” or “I am bored with this exercise” or “I have better things to do” or any sorts of thoughts.

2. This thought will pass and another thought will come. So just observe this thought passing.

3. Then wait for the next thought to come.

4. When the next thought is present, just notice it, and see how it passes.

5. Then wait for the next thought to come.

6. Repeat #4 and #5 many-many times.

Between the 2 thoughts there is a gap. It can be very short or subtle, just a second or a few seconds before the next thought come in.

This is how to look at thoughts.
Looking how they come and go.
And observing the short gap between them.
Noticing how the current thought is passing.
And waiting for the next thought to come.

Please do the following exercise:
Throughout your waking day, try to observe the gap between thoughts as often as possible. It can be done by noticing that ‘thinking’ is happening right now, then stop and just simply wait for the next thought to come. In the ‘waiting’ there is a gap between two thoughts.
Let me know how you go.

Love, Kay

[Clashnacrona]

Hi Kay,

I have my girls this weekend and have taken them up to my family in Dublin for the weekend so may not be able to post my responses to this exercise till we get back on Sunday evening.

Regards

Ado

[forgetmenot]

No probs...thanks for letting me know.

Kay

[Clashnacrona]

Hi Kay,

Thanks for your patience. As I mentioned in my last post I had my girls with me the last few days and basically had no alone time until this evening as I was staying with my sister and her husband and 2 kids and was sleeping on a couch. My ego/self/super ego whatever name you want to put on it has been giving me a really hard time this last few days which I’m presuming is a natural off shoot from doing this inquiry work but it has been extremely hard and exhausting. The super ego can be very powerful and difficult for me not to engage with when its as its worst.

Please do the following exercise:
Throughout your waking day, try to observe the gap between thoughts as often as possible. It can be done by noticing that ‘thinking’ is happening right now, then stop and just simply wait for the next thought to come. In the ‘waiting’ there is a gap between two thoughts.
Let me know how you go.

I did try to do the exercise you mentioned re noticing gaps in my ‘thinking’ during the day. At one point as I was walking down a steep road towards the village with a narrow footpath with my girls (15) and (12) and my nephew and niece (12) and (6) and our dog Sandy. My niece had Sandy by the lead and I found myself getting very stressed out worrying about them wandering out onto the oncoming traffic and I was quite grouchy and a little short tempered with them. At that point the super ego was going to town on me giving me a really hard time then I remembered the exercise and I just said ‘these are only thoughts’ to myself and for a brief few moments I saw the admonishing I was getting from the super ego as just thoughts and I felt a real sense of peace. This didn’t last for long but it was enough to break the train of thought and my identification with it.

I also sat down for 15 mins twice in the last few days and tried to observe thoughts coming and going. I did find this one difficult but there definitely were brief gaps between thoughts now and again. Even though I have had various meditation practices over the last number of years and have certainly experienced moments of real stillness and quietness between thoughts for some reason I’m finding it really difficult to find the gaps between my thoughts the last few days. It almost feels like I have never meditated ever in my life before and I’m starting from scratch. If I was to pinpoint it exactly what I’m experiencing difficulty with is not going along with the thoughts. It's almost as if I’m addicted to my thinking which does makes sense since I am a recovering alcoholic. 95% of all my pain and suffering has been caused by my super ego and it is freedom from identifying with ‘it’, which is just another aspect of ‘self’,is the whole reason I’m doing this inquiry with you so I’m presuming ‘it’ is going to fight really hard to stay alive so I suppose the main thing to do is just observe what’s happening without judging and with this continuing inquiry the glue that holds the ‘self’ in place may start to dissolve. Hope that makes sense.

Take Care

Ado

[forgetmenot]

Hello Ado,

My ego/self/super ego whatever name you want to put on it has been giving me a really hard time this last few days which I’m presuming is a natural off shoot from doing this inquiry work but it has been extremely hard and exhausting. The super ego can be very powerful and difficult for me not to engage with when its as its worst.

Hmmm….so now we have an Adoself and a superego. How many more illusory selves are there? How does an illusion actually have a ‘superego’?

What is the AE of superego?

Throughout your waking day, try to observe the gap between thoughts as often as possible. It can be done by noticing that ‘thinking’ is happening right now, then stop and just simply wait for the next thought to come. In the ‘waiting’ there is a gap between two thoughts.
Let me know how you go.

I remembered the exercise and I just said ‘these are only thoughts’ to myself and for a brief few moments I saw the admonishing I was getting from the super ego as just thoughts and I felt a real sense of peace. This didn’t last for long but it was enough to break the train of thought and my identification with it.

Did you actually LOOK to see if you could find and “I” or a “superego” anywhere who was admonishing, or was being admonished by thoughts?

Just look now...a thought can be found, but can a thinker of thought be found?
Can an “I” be found in thought itself?
Can a “superego” be found in thought itself?

Sound can be found, but can a hearer of sounds be found?
Can an “I” be found in sound itself?
Can a “superego” be found in sound itself?

Colour can be found, but can a see-er of colour be found?
Can an “I” be found in colour itself?
Can a “superego” be found in colour itself?

Sensation can be found, but can a feeler of sensation be found?
Can an “I” be found in sensation itself?
Can a “superego” be found in sensation itself?

Smell can be found, but can a smeller of smell be found?
Can an “I” be found in smell itself?
Can a “superego” be found in smell itself?

Taste can be found, but can a taster of taste be found?
Can an “I” be found in taste itself?
Can a “superego” be found in taste itself?

Experience can be found, but can an experiencer of experience be found?
It's as simple as that. Just look and see what is actually present - and what is only imaginary.

I also sat down for 15 mins twice in the last few days and tried to observe thoughts coming and going. I did find this one difficult but there definitely were brief gaps between thoughts now and again.

The purpose of the exercise was to see each and every thought as it appeared. Did you notice that?

If I was to pinpoint it exactly what I’m experiencing difficulty with is not going along with the thoughts. It's almost as if I’m addicted to my thinking which does makes sense since I am a recovering alcoholic.

There is no one who is addicted to thoughts. That is simply a thought too. Please redo the exercise and observe each and every thought as it arises. The stipulation of looking for the gap was only to slow the thoughts down so that you could observe each and every thought as it appeared.
Please report back on how you went with observing each and every thought as it arose.

95% of all my pain and suffering has been caused by my super ego and it is freedom from identifying with ‘it’, which is just another aspect of ‘self’,is the whole reason I’m doing this inquiry with you so I’m presuming ‘it’ is going to fight really hard to stay alive so I suppose the main thing to do is just observe what’s happening without judging and with this continuing inquiry the glue that holds the ‘self’ in place may start to dissolve. Hope that makes sense.

Nice story! Where exactly is this "I" that has been in pain and suffering? Everything you wrote is simply AE of thought.

Kay

[Clashnacrona]

Hi Kay,

I'm working till 10pm this evening so won't get a chance to post a response till tomorrow at the earliest.

Regards

Ado

[forgetmenot]

No worries :)

Kay

[Clashnacrona]

Hi Kay,

Here are my responses to your questions.

What is the AE of superego?

It is the AE of thought.

Just look now...a thought can be found, but can a thinker of thought be found?
Can an “I” be found in thought itself?
Can a “superego” be found in thought itself?

Yes I can see that what I have been taking as the thinker of the thoughts is just another thought in itself. It is only a thought that tells me its the ‘I’ or owner of the thought that is the illusion of a ‘self’.
Following on from that the “superego” cannot be found in thought itself because it is also just another thought about a “superego”

Sound can be found, but can a hearer of sounds be found?
Can an “I” be found in sound itself?
Can a “superego” be found in sound itself?

There is no hearer of sound just a thought telling me its the ‘hearer’.
There is just sound and no ‘I’ to be found in sound itself.
And no there is also no superego in sound itself either.

Colour can be found, but can a see-er of colour be found?
Can an “I” be found in colour itself?
Can a “superego” be found in colour itself?

Again when thought commentary is ignored there is just colour and no see-er of colour.
There is no ‘I’ in colour just the colour itself.
Again colour just is and there is no ‘self’ ‘I’ or ‘superego’ in colour.

Sensation can be found, but can a feeler of sensation be found?
Can an “I” be found in sensation itself?
Can a “superego” be found in sensation itself?

There is no feeler of sensation without thought.
It is only the thought ‘I am feeling this sensation’ that tries to convince me that ‘I’ am the sensation.
There is no ‘superego’ in sensation.

Smell can be found, but can a smeller of smell be found?
Can an “I” be found in smell itself?
Can a “superego” be found in smell itself?

Again going on the AE of smell there is no smeller to be found.
There is no ‘I’ in the smell just the smell itself.
No ‘superego’ can be found in smell itself.

Taste can be found, but can a taster of taste be found?
Can an “I” be found in taste itself?
Can a “superego” be found in taste itself?

No taster just taste itself.
Without out the thought trying to convince me that ‘I’ am tasting this food there is clearly no ‘I’ in taste itself.
There is no superego in taste itself because again ‘superego’ is just an AE of a thought telling me its my superego.

Experience can be found, but can an experiencer of experience be found?
It's as simple as that. Just look and see what is actually present - and what is only imaginary.

There is only the experience itself with no experiencer. Thought brings me away from the experience and tries to interpret, manipulate and mold it into ‘my’ experience. As you say this is all just imagination and is not the AE that is present in this moment.

The purpose of the exercise was to see each and every thought as it appeared. Did you notice that?

I did notice the thoughts as they appeared but I am still so strongly identifying with them that it seems to take a real effort on my part to stay detached from the thoughts. I did make some headway with this by focusing my attention on my belly as it rose and fell with my breath or else focusing on the blackness in front of my closed eyes as a way to bring me back to my AE in the moment.

Please report back on how you went with observing each and every thought as it arose.

Again I found this exercise incredibly difficult to practise. I’m still finding it very challenging to observe the thoughts and not get sucked in by them. I have noticed gaps in between thoughts now and again but what seems to be happening is that I’ll notice a thought arising and then its as if an automatic switch flicks on which follows the thought almost instantaneously before I can catch myself doing it and then I have to bring my focus back to my breath to let go of the thought. In other words I don’t seem to be able to just stand back and watch them come and go in detached way. As I mentioned in my responses to the questions above re sound, seeing, sensation, taste, smell and experience I can see clearly that it is thinking that gets in the way and muddies the waters as such as regards not identifying with the actual thinking there seems to be some sort of resistance happening……

I just did the exercise again there now and by focusing totally on the blackness behind my closed eyes as I mentioned above something seems to have clicked and I was able to observe the thoughts arising and falling away a lot easier than the last few times. I didn’t seem to become engaged with them hardly at all. Staying with the AE of the what was seen behind my closed eyes seems to have enabled me to stay more detached.

Regards

Ado

[Clashnacrona]

Hi Kay,

I just wanted to add that I am aware that I’m feeling a lot of fear at the moment and there is a part of me that wants to respond to the exercises you have been giving me in the ‘right’ way and be a good student. I felt a sense of frustration from you in your last post and I took that very personally and I know that you are just guiding and pointing towards seeing that there is in fact no self and that none of this is personal.And also I’m doing your thinking for you which is all imagination anyhow. Right now at this moment I really want to believe that there is no self running ‘my’ show but I’m only getting small glimpses of clarity like with the sound exercises. I would rather lay bare this stuff than worry about whether I’m doing it right and looking for your approval all the time. I’m hoping that this kind of reaction is a normal enough part of the process of trying to see through the illusion of no self.

All the best

Ado

[forgetmenot]

Hey Ado,

The purpose of the exercise was to see each and every thought as it appeared. Did you notice that?

I did notice the thoughts as they appeared but I am still so strongly identifying with them that it seems to take a real effort on my part to stay detached from the thoughts. I did make some headway with this by focusing my attention on my belly as it rose and fell with my breath or else focusing on the blackness in front of my closed eyes as a way to bring me back to my AE in the moment.

Thought A: I did notice the thoughts as they appeared

Thought B: but I am still so strongly identifying with them

Thought C: it seems to take a real effort on my part to stay detached from the thoughts.

Thought D: I did make some headway with this by focusing my attention on my belly as it rose and fell with my breath

Thought E: or else focusing on the blackness in front of my closed eyes as a way to bring me back to my AE in the moment.

Thought A to E are ALL simply thoughts appearing.
Does thought E know anything about thought A? Does thought A know anything about thought E or any other thought for that matter?

Please report back on how you went with observing each and every thought as it arose.

Again I found this exercise incredibly difficult to practise. I’m still finding it very challenging to observe the thoughts and not get sucked in by them.

How can you possibly be sucked in by thought. You are aware of each and every thought as it appears. If you were actually getting sucked into thought, you would only be aware of the thought that sucked you in and no other thought! Even when going down the rabbit hole with thought…are you not aware of each thought as it arises?

“I am getting sucked in by them” is a thought. Did you actually LOOK at that moment to see if you could actually find anyone getting sucked in by thought?

What is seen cannot be unseen. But that does not mean that you can never get "lost in the story again". It’s like watching a movie and getting sucked into it. Once you look, you know: it’s a movie, not real life. So once you look, you know it’s a story and not reality.

I have noticed gaps in between thoughts now and again but what seems to be happening is that I’ll notice a thought arising and then its as if an automatic switch flicks on which follows the thought almost instantaneously before I can catch myself doing it and then I have to bring my focus back to my breath to let go of the thought. In other words I don’t seem to be able to just stand back and watch them come and go in detached way.

I wasn’t asking you to stand back and watch them in a detached way. I wanted you to just observe how they arise and subside….nothing more.

I just did the exercise again there now and by focusing totally on the blackness behind my closed eyes as I mentioned above something seems to have clicked and I was able to observe the thoughts arising and falling away a lot easier than the last few times. I didn’t seem to become engaged with them hardly at all. Staying with the AE of the what was seen behind my closed eyes seems to have enabled me to stay more detached.

The goal of the exercise is to simply see how thoughts arise and subside…nothing more, and in simply seeing how they arise and subside to see if you could then describe in detail, the process by which you create a thought, or make a choice. You have been doing it all your life apparently - so you must know exactly how you do it. So how do you do it? How do you create a thought? How do you think?

I just wanted to add that I am aware that I’m feeling a lot of fear at the moment and there is a part of me that wants to respond to the exercises you have been giving me in the ‘right’ way and be a good student. I felt a sense of frustration from you in your last post and I took that very personally and I know that you are just guiding and pointing towards seeing that there is in fact no self and that none of this is personal.

Did you LOOK in that moment to see if you could find anyone who was taking things personally? That is the key…the LOOKING is the key. LOOKING each and every time the idea comes up that there is an “I” that things are happening to, or an “I” that is doing, thinking, saying or feeling anything.

Did you break down ‘fear’ into AE to see what was actually appearing?
Did you break down ‘frustration’ into AE to see what was actually appearing?

Okay, so let’s test the reality of ‘fear’ and ‘frustration’.

We have been exploring how thought tends to add “virtual layers” about experience, by adding stories about what IS. The more complex the idea, the more “virtual layers” have been added. So what needs to happen is to strip the layers of story away, until all that remains is the bare bones. And, there is way to determine when you have stripped away all the layers that are pure fantasy, and you have only the bare bones left. If you can replace the thought with “blahblahblah” and what it was referring to remains, you know you are down to the bare bones.

So, close your eyes (or leave them open) and bring the story of “I am feeling fearful” to the forefront, and notice the sensation and images that seemingly go hand in hand with that thought.

Now replace the thought “I am feeling fearful” with “blahblahblah”. Look at the actual experience, with thought only saying “blahbahblah.” Is there an “I” that is “feeling fearful” without thought saying so?

If yes, that thought is referring to actual experience. That’s a “bare bones” thought, with all additional story layers stripped.

If no, then you know that the thought has added “virtual layers.” It is fantasy, and it isn’t confirmed as actual experience, because what it was saying didn’t remain when the thought was replaced with “blahblahblah.” If what remains, for example is sensation, then all that is confirmed in actual experience is AE of sensation, but can an “I am feeling fearful” be confirmed?

You can do that exercise with any thought that appears to see if a thought is a ‘bare bone’ thought or is a thought that has added ‘virtual layers’ to AE.

Test it out and let me know what you noticed.

Kay

[Clashnacrona]

Hi Kay,

Thanks for your wise words here are my responses to your questions.

Thought A to E are ALL simply thoughts appearing.
Does thought E know anything about thought A? Does thought A know anything about thought E or any other thought for that matter?

Yes I can see that all these thoughts are fairly random and they probably didn’t even appear in the order I mentioned either. There is no connection between them bar the supposed connection that thought tries to give it.

“I am getting sucked in by them” is a thought. Did you actually LOOK at that moment to see if you could actually find anyone getting sucked in by thought?

Thank you for pointing that out and it is all only thought and there is no ‘I’ there to get sucked in. It is only a thought that tells me I was getting sucked in by a thought. I didn’t look at the time to see if there was anyone getting sucked in by thought but I can see clearly now that it was just another thought posing as an ‘I’. An imposter as such.

“What is seen cannot be unseen. But that does not mean that you can never get "lost in the story again". It’s like watching a movie and getting sucked into it. Once you look, you know: it’s a movie, not real life. So once you look, you know it’s a story and not reality”.

I know you didn’t highlight this statement for me to respond to particularly but it really struck a chord. There seems to be a very slight subtle shift away from the belief in a ‘self’ to seeing that all thoughts are actually just a story and a fabrication.

The goal of the exercise is to simply see how thoughts arise and subside…nothing more, and in simply seeing how they arise and subside to see if you could then describe in detail, the process by which you create a thought, or make a choice. You have been doing it all your life apparently - so you must know exactly how you do it. So how do you do it? How do you create a thought? How do you think?

As far as I can tell I only seem to create thoughts when I need to solve a problem or plan like budgeting my money in order to pay my bills and create a spending plan or figure out which mechanic to call if the car breaks down on the side of the road. Otherwise I don’t think I create any of the other thousand and one thoughts that clog my mind. Thinking only seems to be necessary to do certain tasks like the above mentioned examples. I play the traditional flute and I generally play by ear and therefore play almost automatically without the need for thinking at all. In fact thoughts generally get in the way of the music as they are usually commenting on how well or not well I’m apparently playing.

Did you LOOK in that moment to see if you could find anyone who was taking things personally? That is the key…the LOOKING is the key. LOOKING each and every time the idea comes up that there is an “I” that things are happening to, or an “I” that is doing, thinking, saying or feeling anything.

I didn’t look at the time but I can see now that there was only a thought that said ‘I’ was taking it personally. As you say looking is the key. I priced a drumming workshop in a school today and the principal questioned my price comparing it to somebody else who was coming in doing a dance class and was half the price. At first I did take it personally and afterwards I realized that it wasn’t personal and that she was also wasn’t comparing like with like. Thought came into my mind of doubt and a feeling of shame as well and these are all connected to a sense of an ‘I’. When the ‘I’ who is taking it personally is taken out of the equation there is nothing personal there at all. They are then only thoughts passing through. I can see this quite clearly but it isn’t hard wired into my being yet. Adding to that the AE experience of sensation at the moment she questioned my price was a knot in my belly. My mind then interpreted that as shame and doubt and tried to make it personal.

Did you break down ‘fear’ into AE to see what was actually appearing?
Did you break down ‘frustration’ into AE to see what was actually appearing?

What was actually appearing was a sense of an ‘I’ that was feeling fearful which is just a thought. There were thoughts like ‘I’ll be the first person to fail at this, or you will sack me cos I’m not getting this quickly enough’, I can see that these are only thoughts and are not based in reality and are in fact purely imagination.That being said these thoughts can create a feeling of fear and frustration which did manifest as a knot in my stomach. I’m not 100% sure which comes first the thought or the feeling of a knot in my stomach. Does the feeling create the thought or does the thought create the feeling. I have a sense that the feeling comes first and the mind then wants to interpret that feeling by labeling it with a thought. So the feeling is the AE of sensation and then thought immediately tries to take ownership of it and interprets it as “I’m feeling fearful, frustrated etc….”

We have been exploring how thought tends to add “virtual layers” about experience, by adding stories about what IS. The more complex the idea, the more “virtual layers” have been added. So what needs to happen is to strip the layers of story away, until all that remains is the bare bones. And, there is way to determine when you have stripped away all the layers that are pure fantasy, and you have only the bare bones left. If you can replace the thought with “blahblahblah” and what it was referring to remains, you know you are down to the bare bones.

So, close your eyes (or leave them open) and bring the story of “I am feeling fearful” to the forefront, and notice the sensation and images that seemingly go hand in hand with that thought.

Now replace the thought “I am feeling fearful” with “blahblahblah”. Look at the actual experience, with thought only saying “blahbahblah.” Is there an “I” that is “feeling fearful” without thought saying so?

If yes, that thought is referring to actual experience. That’s a “bare bones” thought, with all additional story layers stripped.

If no, then you know that the thought has added “virtual layers.” It is fantasy, and it isn’t confirmed as actual experience, because what it was saying didn’t remain when the thought was replaced with “blahblahblah.” If what remains, for example is sensation, then all that is confirmed in actual experience is AE of sensation, but can an “I am feeling fearful” be confirmed?

You can do that exercise with any thought that appears to see if a thought is a ‘bare bone’ thought or is a thought that has added ‘virtual layers’ to AE.

Test it out and let me know what you noticed.

I tried this technique with the thought “I’m feeling fearful about putting myself out there with drumming workshops”.

When I initially brought that “I’m feeling fearful about delivering drumming workshops”, I experienced a knot in my belly and there were images of me falling apart while doing the workshops in front of teachers and kids and scowling teacher and principals disapproving of me and so on…. I then replaced the “I’m feeling fearful” with “Blabla bla bla bla bla bla”, and there was only a slight feeling of apprehension in my belly. The bare bones of the story was a natural enough feeling of apprehension since I haven’t delivered drumming workshops for a while and am only starting up the business again after a 5 year absence. So the AE was of the sensation of anxiousness in my belly which the mind then added to with images of disapproving principals/teachers and me going blank in front of a room full of kids. Without the minds commentary and going on the actual experience of sensation there can be no ‘I’ with which to take it personally. It is the mind and thought that creates the sense of ‘I’.

All the best

Ado

[forgetmenot]

Hello Ado,

I will respond to your post at another time. We never finished becoming aware of AE and learning how to LOOK and this is causing some issues...so we will finish getting clear on what AE and looking are...then we will continue on with thoughts.

The term ‘actual experience’ (AE) is used to refer to experience ‘right now,’ and noticing the thought stories about them...so ‘looking’ is just plain looking at what is here right now ie image/colour, sound, smell, sensation, taste and the simple knowing of thought at face value.The key to this exploration is the careful LOOKING. Why? Because it’s the act of actually LOOKING and not finding an “I” that brings about the realisation of there being no separate self.

The most important tool for this whole exploration is to be able to tell the difference between actual experience and the interpretation by thought of actual experience. The interpretation of actual experience happens quickly. So while inquiring, the interpretation will always be appear…but it is possible to focus on actual experience only.

The following exercise points to what I mean.

For this exercise you will need an apple or any other piece of fruit will do.



Have a look at an apple. When ‘looking at an apple’, there's colour; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."
What is known for sure? Colour is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?
Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought. Actual experience is sound, thought, colour, smell, taste, sensation.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by ‘looking in actual experience ‘. What you know for sure, and, is always here.

The label ‘apple’ is known
Taste labelled ‘apple’ is known
Colour labelled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labelled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labelled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known
However, is an apple actually known?

Kay