Unveiling

[Bananafish]

Hi BlakeBlue. :)

I'm starting to experience it. It is indeed like a summer breeze: careless, weightless, effortless...

Great! Please be friends with it.

This realisation is precious :).

(I believe the time needs to be right to see though - I'm not sure if you can explore no-self when you're dealing with PTSD).

:) Yes, this realization is not an almighty cure for everything.
The cure part is an icing on the cake. It may happen or not.

The realization is for its own sake, nothing else.

I'm thinking it would be nice to have some kind of markers throughout the day. Lucid dreaming is trained like this. Like an alarm clock, a beep, or maybe even a message of someone pointing to inspect reality throughout the day. Maybe such app exists... I'll explore.

Well, he have them, actually, which are everything! Typing the response, look for the typer,
walking on the road, look for the walker ... everything that is happening can be a marker
to be used. So be creative and find your favorite one!

Yes, it does :). Although Jim Carrey turns it around when talking about his own realisation of the false I:

'And at a certain point I realised: 'hey wait a second - if it is so easy to lose Jim Carrey, who the hell is Jim Carrey?'

Well put ... love that. :)

I think serious actors might slip into another skin entirely. (Something which The Stanislavski method acting was after). I can imagine there are actors that have lost their minds by acting...

Ah, when they "lose their mind," what are they? Are they the actor, acted, or the acting?

there is no-one there listening to the thoughts, but just things randomly happening.

Yes, that exactly applies to thoughts.
And "there is no-one there listening to the thoughts, but just things randomly happening." is
also a random thought.


If you drop all these thoughts, what remains?

Entanglements in / identification with thoughts, beliefs and memories.

Please describe how you perceive "identification with thoughts, beliefs and memories."



Best wishes,



Bananafish

[BlakeBlue]

Hi Bananafish,

Well, he have them, actually, which are everything! Typing the response, look for the typer,
walking on the road, look for the walker ... everything that is happening can be a marker to be used. So be creative and find your favorite one!

Following our Skype-call, I think I will (un-)focus on thought images for some time: when mental images come up, I'll look for the watcher.

Ah, when they "lose their mind," what are they? Are they the actor, acted, or the acting?

I see these are all my concepts.

Yes, that exactly applies to thoughts.
And "there is no-one there listening to the thoughts, but just things randomly happening." is
also a random thought.

I see.


If you drop all these thoughts, what remains?[/quote]


Nothing I can describe now.

Please describe how you perceive "identification with thoughts, beliefs and memories."

It is like being deeply immersed in a movie that pulls me away from the present into another space where people I know perform scenes like movie-characters, although at that moment it feels real, like being there, in the mental space: I hear their voices and my own, and I watch it happen from the first person perspective. These visions come with body-sensations, I am the character.

Since the start of our process, I can see / feel this happening much quicker, but getting out of the script, out of character isn't always easy. (Something you said in the Skype call related to this struck like a lightning bolt. I will process and will write it down tomorrow).


One last note on the Skype-call we just had: you are so kind, and so wise (in your pointing). Thank you with all my being. You touch me deeply.


Warm greetings,
BlakeBlue

[Bananafish]

Hi BlakeBlue. :) Thank you for the Skype call!
Please let me know if you need another session.

Following our Skype-call, I think I will (un-)focus on thought images for some time: when mental images come up, I'll look for the watcher.

Yes, now that you know how and where to look, the key is to keep inquiring.
Then, please observe what happens and report it.

Since the start of our process, I can see / feel this happening much quicker, but getting out of the script, out of character isn't always easy. (Something you said in the Skype call related to this struck like a lightning bolt. I will process and will write it down tomorrow).

Yes, please review what we covered during the call, and let me know
what comes up. :)

One last note on the Skype-call we just had: you are so kind, and so wise (in your pointing). Thank you with all my being. You touch me deeply.

Same here. :) Thank you for your honesty and sincerity. That helps me to guide you.



Best wishes,


Bananafish

[BlakeBlue]

Hi Bananafish,

Please let me know if you need another session.

Thank you for your offer :), I certainly will.

Following our Skype-call, I think I will (un-)focus on thought images for some time: when mental images come up, I'll look for the watcher.

I'd like to report my experience of today. As I lay in the dark after a short nap, I observed these mind movies I've been describing before.

Code: Select all

It is like being deeply immersed in a movie that pulls me away from the present into another space where people I know perform scenes like movie-characters, although at that moment it feels real, like being there, in the mental space: I hear their voices and my own, and I watch it happen from the first person perspective. These visions come with body-sensations, I am the character.

But now, I remembered our Skype-call during which you asked me to recall a mind movie that had been playing in my mind earlier that day. As I evoked the image, I left the present of our call, and wandered off in that other space, a room in this case, where this other person was present. You asked me to describe the image. I told you that I was in a different room where I had little contact to the present, that this other person was there, that I watched the room from a first person perspective, and that I heard my voice speaking to him. I reported it felt like an interplay of images, sounds, and the body that seemed to react to the image (normally when I'm in these movies, I've got no connection to my body or anything outside the images, but I could briefly connect to it because you asked). As I was immersed in that other space, you asked me who the watcher was. If I could find any. The characters stopped playing their roles / the movie came to a halt, and I looked, but I couldn't find any. And with that, the mirage shattered, and I came back to our conversation.


*** I couldn't find any... ***


Back to today. So as I lay in the dark, I watched a similar mind movie spun out, when I realised after some time I drifted off, and remembered to look for the watcher. I couldn't find one. Shortly another mind movie came up, yet I caught it quicker and the experience deepened somehow. I couldn't find a watcher, no first-person, there was nothing outside of 'the frame' of the image. Nothing. No-one. Instead I felt a void, but a void that oddly enough felt complete. The images still played, a dog outside barked, lungs breathed, yet as in the previously described experience, they where like dolphins popping up, too slippery to catch (and I had no intention to) and too unpredictable to spot (and I had no intention to). I was just watching dolphins.

But then, in the room upstairs, where an unannounced meeting was going on, people started to shuffle chairs, laugh and move. It is an old house I work in, and the wooden ceilings and walls are paper thin. This got me out of the state, as a sense of anxiousness descended on me, my heart beat raised, my senses were going haywire, and it was unpossible to untangle the stimuli, and I wanted to go back to the calm state. As much as I tried to not slip from the present, I felt like a cornered animal, threatened, anxious and distressed. And then on top of that, there was a sense of disappointment that I couldn't detach and see that there is no-one listening, no-one watching.

It is a similar situation as the one I described before with the men that spoke violently on the courtyard.

I wonder what to do about (and if it should raise concern for our process):

a). losing contact with the present through mind movies (you made a distinction between thoughts and images yesterday - thoughts to me seem to expand into a mind movies often, so I feel I'm disconnected from the present often)
b). losing the ability to untangle the sensorial inputs and look for the watcher in situations of distress
(c). being distressed in certain situations easily)

Thank you,
BlakeBlue

[Bananafish]

Good morning from Japan!


Today I’m going to attend a one-day zazen retreat I’ve never joined
before. Towards the weekend there will be another one that lasts five days, and I’m going
to join them for 4 days. Excited! :)

This got me out of the state,

What kind of state is it?
Isn’t it the nature of any state that they come and go?
Can you force them to come or not to come?

as a sense of anxiousness descended on me, my heart beat raised, my senses were going haywire,

As you are recalling it, where are all the above?

and it was unpossible to untangle the stimuli,

Is it tangled?
What if you discard the label “tangled” or “untangle?”

and I wanted to go back to the calm state.

What is the “I” that wants it?

As much as I tried to not slip from the present, I felt like a cornered animal, threatened, anxious and distressed. And then on top of that, there was a sense of disappointment that I couldn't detach and see that there is no-one listening, no-one watching.

What is “slipping from the present?” How do you perceive it, when there is no
thought about slipping from the present?

a). losing contact with the present through mind movies (you made a distinction between thoughts and images yesterday - thoughts to me seem to expand into a mind movies often, so I feel I'm disconnected from the present often)
b). losing the ability to untangle the sensorial inputs and look for the watcher in situations of distress
(c). being distressed in certain situations easily)

The last question. :). To whom are these a problem?



Thank you,



Bananafish

[BlakeBlue]

Hi Bananafish,

Hope you had a lovely zazen retreat. I'd love to hear more about it if you'd like to share?

What kind of state is it?
Isn’t it the nature of any state that they come and go?
Can you force them to come or not to come?

Yes, they are. Like waves. Only I couldn't see it like that yesterday.

As you are recalling it, where are all the above?

They are concepts :).

Code: Select all

Is it tangled? What if you discard the label “tangled” or “untangle?”

Then they are happenings.

What is the “I” that wants it?

There is none, so there are no wants.

What is “slipping from the present?” How do you perceive it, when there is no
thought about slipping from the present?

:D concept

The last question. :). To whom are these a problem?

To an I that is an illusion. So there are no problems :).

Short & powerful - thank you for pointing :).

Warm wishes,
BlakeBlue

[Bananafish]

Hi BlakeBlue. :)



Yes, I will send you a private message about the retreat later. :)



How do you see the “self” now?
Are you crystal clear that it is an illusion?



Best wishes,



Bananafish

[BlakeBlue]

Hi Bananafish,

How do you see the “self” now?
Are you crystal clear that it is an illusion?

Please allow me some time - I find little words today - yet know our process is on the forefront.


I would like however, to share this quote I found a couple of days ago:





But I'd like to propose an edit:





What do you think :)?

Be well,
BlakeBlue

[BlakeBlue]

link not working, retry:

[BlakeBlue]

hmm...


maybe better visit https://imgur.com/1jSUfnU


:)
Bye
BlakeBlue

[Bananafish]

Thank you for the lovely quote, BlakeBlue. :)


Here's a present in return, a quote from Hokyo Zanmai (Treasure-Mirror Samadhi) by
zen master Tozan:


"You are not what is reflected, but the reflection itself is you."


Isn't it also lovely?
Please savor its taste, and see how it perfectly fits what is seen here and now.



Have a great day,


Bananafish

[Bananafish]

Hi!



As I told you, I’ll be attending a zen retreat starting tomorrow and will come back on Sunday.
In the meantime, please reread our thread and review what we saw during the
course of our dialogue.



Warm regards,



Bananafish

[BlakeBlue]

Dear Bananafish,

I'm sorry for skipping a day of writing and not letting you know. I was exhausted after finishing a proposal at 2 am last night, and the nights of sleep deprivation that preceded.

Here's a present in return, a quote from Hokyo Zanmai (Treasure-Mirror Samadhi) by zen master Tozan:


"You are not what is reflected, but the reflection itself is you."

Many thanks for this. It resonates deeply... I will watch it unfold and will get back to you about it when you return.

As I told you, I’ll be attending a zen retreat starting tomorrow and will come back on Sunday.

Thank you for your notice. I wish you a good retreat.

In the meantime, please reread our thread and review what we saw during the course of our dialogue.

I will.


Warm wishes,
BlakeBlue

[Bananafish]

Hi BlakeBlue. :)


I'm back now. How is your inquiry going?


Bananafish

[BlakeBlue]

Dear Bananfish,

I haven't really had a lot of time for missing, but today I longed to write to you. I'm happy to read you're back, and am very happy to continue our conversation.

I must admit I've had a very busy week with little time to watch. I felt I was living in a storm of (social) obligations and life practicalities (not by choice, but by unwanted circumstances and necessity), and I survived on auto-pilot (little room for consciousness). I also dropped into some old destructive coping patterns that led me away from the enquiry, from seeing the illusion, and from our conversation. This is the first time since I wrote you last time, I actually sit down quietly to contemplate and observe myself. The calm I experience now, feels like coming home.

In the meantime, please reread our thread and review what we saw during the course of our dialogue.

While I did reread our conversation, I was so tensed and headless-chicken-like, that it didn't really sink in, and I couldn't connect to it. I couldn't watch myself. I was thoughts again (needed to make a lot of choices).

Can we please continue our conversation - would you please guide me again?

Warm greetings,
BlakeBlue

PS I've got another two busy weeks ahead until my life will hopefully be a little more calm & stable again, but I commit to writing daily again, even while it might be a little shorter.