‘No doer of the deed is found...’
Re: ‘No doer of the deed is found...’
I can’t find the self in any of the senses. However, there is a feeling that, for example, hearing is happening to ‘me’ - that there is a self that is recieving the information of the senses.
Re: ‘No doer of the deed is found...’
ok. well done for distinguishing that.
Let's explore this area of the senses and how sense experience differs from thinking some more:
Choose an ordinary object in the room. Maybe a picture or something that has interesting and varied visual qualities
1. Close your eyes and picture it in your mind for a minute or two.
2. Open your eyes and observe it directly for a while.
Describe both experiences. The first one of what was happening directly in the mind sense and then the second one of what you experienced in the visual sense.
Also tell me the difference between these two experiences.
xx
Let's explore this area of the senses and how sense experience differs from thinking some more:
Choose an ordinary object in the room. Maybe a picture or something that has interesting and varied visual qualities
1. Close your eyes and picture it in your mind for a minute or two.
2. Open your eyes and observe it directly for a while.
Describe both experiences. The first one of what was happening directly in the mind sense and then the second one of what you experienced in the visual sense.
Also tell me the difference between these two experiences.
xx
Re: ‘No doer of the deed is found...’
When I close my eyes and imagine the cushion the image moves about, and I can only seem to hold part of it at any one time - I can’t have a strong sense of it’s shape, colour, texture etc all at once, and there is a strain across the eyes and forehead. It fluctuates between degrees of vagueness and clarity. The cushion is imagined sort of floating in dark space.
When I look at the cushion I am also taking in the surroundings - it is situated in space. My eyes flicker around the object, creating a sense of the whole, which seems to happen effortlessly. I can be aware of the richness of colour, texture etc at the same time, without sense of strain of trying to hold/explore the object in my mind as with the image of the cushion.
The experience of looking directly is richer, with more depth, and there is a sense of being able to relax and enjoy the experience rather than doing anything. It is more steady (it doesn’t flicker or dim), although there is movement in the visual experience (my eyes/body move) and there is differing degrees of interest, affecting the richness of the experience.
When I look at the cushion I am also taking in the surroundings - it is situated in space. My eyes flicker around the object, creating a sense of the whole, which seems to happen effortlessly. I can be aware of the richness of colour, texture etc at the same time, without sense of strain of trying to hold/explore the object in my mind as with the image of the cushion.
The experience of looking directly is richer, with more depth, and there is a sense of being able to relax and enjoy the experience rather than doing anything. It is more steady (it doesn’t flicker or dim), although there is movement in the visual experience (my eyes/body move) and there is differing degrees of interest, affecting the richness of the experience.
Re: ‘No doer of the deed is found...’
Really good, Sara
More in a few hours
More in a few hours
Re: ‘No doer of the deed is found...’
Sorry, Raine! That wasn't for you xx
Re: ‘No doer of the deed is found...’
Doh! Ignore that last message please xx
Re: ‘No doer of the deed is found...’
Hi Sara,
Let’s go through the other senses in the same way. Try now to stick to only adjectives and no other words at all when describing the sounds or the imaginations etc. You can use other words when describing the difference.
Hearing.
a) Imagine first the sound of a meditation gong or bell (this is assuming you have one or something similar to hand. Let me know if you don't) Describe exactly how you imagined that. What were the qualities?
b) Then sound the gong and listen with your whole being. Describe that also as fully as you can.
c) Tell me the difference.
xx
Let’s go through the other senses in the same way. Try now to stick to only adjectives and no other words at all when describing the sounds or the imaginations etc. You can use other words when describing the difference.
Hearing.
a) Imagine first the sound of a meditation gong or bell (this is assuming you have one or something similar to hand. Let me know if you don't) Describe exactly how you imagined that. What were the qualities?
b) Then sound the gong and listen with your whole being. Describe that also as fully as you can.
c) Tell me the difference.
xx
Re: ‘No doer of the deed is found...’
Hi Prabhakari,
Imagining - distant, crude, disjointed, effortful, fleeting
Listening- clear, refined, alive, penetrating, nuanced
When listening I was aware of the subtle changes in ton, I n contrast to the experience of imagining in which there was a limit to the quality of the tone and it’s movement. Was much more aware of my body sensations when listening, as opposed to the ‘heady’ experience of imagining. There was a greater sense of aliveness in me when listening, of curiosity and of openness (experienced as particular sensations in my body). Pleasantness of not trying to control it. The imagined experience was duller, more cartoon-like, and difficult to sustain continuously for more than a few moments.
Imagining - distant, crude, disjointed, effortful, fleeting
Listening- clear, refined, alive, penetrating, nuanced
When listening I was aware of the subtle changes in ton, I n contrast to the experience of imagining in which there was a limit to the quality of the tone and it’s movement. Was much more aware of my body sensations when listening, as opposed to the ‘heady’ experience of imagining. There was a greater sense of aliveness in me when listening, of curiosity and of openness (experienced as particular sensations in my body). Pleasantness of not trying to control it. The imagined experience was duller, more cartoon-like, and difficult to sustain continuously for more than a few moments.
Re: ‘No doer of the deed is found...’
That's great. Let's continue:
Taste, smell and touch.
Imagine an orange or a similarly strong tasting fruit. Go through the same 3 steps and describe these 3 senses fully also.
xx
Taste, smell and touch.
Imagine an orange or a similarly strong tasting fruit. Go through the same 3 steps and describe these 3 senses fully also.
xx
Re: ‘No doer of the deed is found...’
With each of the senses I notice:
Imagining - vague, disembodied, tense
Actual experience - intense, rich, subtle
I notice that it's hard to say something of the qualities of what is being imagined in the imagined experiences - it is only thoughts about taste etc, and in comparison it is dull, flat, crude and limited.
The imagined experience has a sense of craving involved when the object is something I find pleasant, and is unsatisfactory. When imagining I am less aware of my body - my field of awareness shrinks.
In actual experience the sensations can be almost indescribablely rich. Taste/smell/touch very much in the foreground of the experience rather than jumbled among images. More of a sense of relaxing into and enjoying the experience.
Imagining - vague, disembodied, tense
Actual experience - intense, rich, subtle
I notice that it's hard to say something of the qualities of what is being imagined in the imagined experiences - it is only thoughts about taste etc, and in comparison it is dull, flat, crude and limited.
The imagined experience has a sense of craving involved when the object is something I find pleasant, and is unsatisfactory. When imagining I am less aware of my body - my field of awareness shrinks.
In actual experience the sensations can be almost indescribablely rich. Taste/smell/touch very much in the foreground of the experience rather than jumbled among images. More of a sense of relaxing into and enjoying the experience.
Re: ‘No doer of the deed is found...’
Great, isn't it!
Re: ‘No doer of the deed is found...’
Good Morning, Sara,
Great looking, well done!
So let’s explore Touch next
Imagine lying down on the floor and tell me what sensations come up in your mind and report back. Remember not to mention body parts like ‘heel’ for instance just the sensations in themselves.
Then lie down, feel the pressure/weight/sensations of contact with the floor and report back as fully as possible
xx
PK
Great looking, well done!
So let’s explore Touch next
Imagine lying down on the floor and tell me what sensations come up in your mind and report back. Remember not to mention body parts like ‘heel’ for instance just the sensations in themselves.
Then lie down, feel the pressure/weight/sensations of contact with the floor and report back as fully as possible
xx
PK
Re: ‘No doer of the deed is found...’
Imagined - Pressure, heaviness, hardness, cold
Actual experience - tingling, warm, cold, heavy, light, open, tense, movement
The actual experience is much more nuanced, and I experience a full spectrum of sensations, some of which are on opposite ends of spectrum - both hot and cold for example, compared to the imagined experience which is more monotonous and not able to hold such contrasts. The imagined experience is unsurprising, oversimplified and unstimulating in comparison with actual experience.
Actual experience - tingling, warm, cold, heavy, light, open, tense, movement
The actual experience is much more nuanced, and I experience a full spectrum of sensations, some of which are on opposite ends of spectrum - both hot and cold for example, compared to the imagined experience which is more monotonous and not able to hold such contrasts. The imagined experience is unsurprising, oversimplified and unstimulating in comparison with actual experience.
Re: ‘No doer of the deed is found...’
Repeat, this time crossing your legs
Re: ‘No doer of the deed is found...’
The imagined experience is an image plus thoughts about sensations - I’m thinking ‘heaviness’ but I don’t actually experience any sensation of this. Heavy or cold etc is a thought.
In actual experience it is the opposite - I can experience sensations without thought.
In actual experience it is the opposite - I can experience sensations without thought.
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