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mpsi
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Re: Hi

Postby mpsi » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:41 am

Dear nina,

I had three very busy days and just couldn't manage to write an answer earlier.

I am lost now. There is no coherent story anymore, I can see how there was slow building and tweaking of the "me and the world" story for so many years, and now it just doesn't make much sense. The "no me" story doesn't make sense either, because there is no story here! I understand that the actual experience of here and now is the key but there is so much momentum going on in life of this human being, all the plans and responsibilities make this human mind very anxious at moments.

Well, it seems I will be able to slow down a little bit now and want to get back to writing a post a day.

Here are my answers to your questions:
Before this experiment I already observed switching of attention in various circumstances and it looked similar to adjusting volume or brightness of different channels.

This isn’t quite clear to me. Could you explain that a bit more, please?
There seems to be a mechanism that adjusts the attention paid to different things, e.g. switching between attention to visual input and thoughts. Let's say I want to buy something: I am looking for coins in my wallet and the attention is directed both into what is seen and the movement of hands. And let's say I start calculating how much I can spend on something. The attention will be directed to the thoughts - the eyes will be still seeing coins and other things, but the focus won't be there anymore. And then, if I suddenly drop a coin, the attention immediately will leave thoughts and go the the seeing, as I'll try to locate the coin. This seems to be basically the same mechanism as the one doing choosing and making decisions.

Ok. Were you aware that was Actual Experience of thought?
Yes, I was aware.

Really? How can thoughts be trained ?
Can you create thoughts or prevent them from arising?

Well, I wrote it half-jokingly. However, there clearly must be a conditioning mechanism for thoughts. I'd guess it happens mainly with beliefs, i.e. some thoughts are deemed true and retained as such in memory, and other thoughts are judged in light of these beliefs. There is a kind of a belief present now which states that thoughts do not make decisions, based on what was observed before.

About observing arising of thoughts:

When the mind is agitated, the thoughts are mostly concerned with current situation. They appear in an uncoordinated manner but they mostly seem to have a purpose to solve immediate questions of life. So they do not wander into exotic territories, but stay within some area of concern. The current of thoughts and emotions may feel quite strong - it forms the "momentum" I wrote about above.

During daily activities I see another problem: frequent misinterpretation of sensations arising in the body. There are many feelings coming from the body, for example "tiredness", interpreted as "me" being tired. Quite often the sensations of the body are misinterpreted as some kind of emotion concerning "me" and not the state of the body.

I still have a big problem with decisions: there is a feeling they cannot just happen by themselves! The "I" is powerless, it's obvious, but there must be some will acting through this human being here. If the separation is just an illusion, it's easy to interpret this will as a single enormous Will acting through all of Being. But is it so? Is it necessary to look for something singular here? It may be rather like flow of water - is water a single entity? I am quite lost.

I'm really very grateful to you for spending time helping me to untie this strange knot of existence. Thanks a lot and wish you all the best things possible! :)

Marcin

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suma
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Re: Hi

Postby suma » Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:38 am

Dear Marcin,
I had three very busy days and just couldn't manage to write an answer earlier.

I am lost now. There is no coherent story anymore, I can see how there was slow building and tweaking of the "me and the world" story for so many years, and now it just doesn't make much sense. The "no me" story doesn't make sense either, because there is no story here! I understand that the actual experience of here and now is the key but there is so much momentum going on in life of this human being, all the plans and responsibilities make this human mind very anxious at moments.

This is really admirable to have all these deep insights and breakdowns despite of being so busy.

The momentum is there and it is not “going away” and also not supposed to go away.
Is it not already a great insight to see all these implications happening?
It is a big difference to either just move along or to realize the movement.
All the making of plans, drives and desires are a real part of the unfolding of this moment.
They are real.
All that might fall away is the idea of “my desires” etc.

I’ve exchanged the word “but” by “and” in your sentence below.
How does it feel to read it like this?

I understand that the actual experience of here and now is the key a n d there is so much momentum going on in life of this human being, all the plans and responsibilities make this human mind very anxious at moments.

There seems to be a mechanism that adjusts the attention paid to different things, e.g. switching between attention to visual input and thoughts. Let's say I want to buy something: I am looking for coins in my wallet and the attention is directed both into what is seen and the movement of hands. And let's say I start calculating how much I can spend on something. The attention will be directed to the thoughts - the eyes will be still seeing coins and other things, but the focus won't be there anymore. And then, if I suddenly drop a coin, the attention immediately will leave thoughts and go the the seeing, as I'll try to locate the coin. This seems to be basically the same mechanism as the one doing choosing and making decisions.

OK. Thanks.
Ok. Were you aware that was Actual Experience of thought?
Yes, I was aware.

Great!

Well, I wrote it half-jokingly. However, there clearly must be a conditioning mechanism for thoughts. I'd guess it happens mainly with beliefs, i.e. some thoughts are deemed true and retained as such in memory, and other thoughts are judged in light of these beliefs. There is a kind of a belief present now which states that thoughts do not make decisions, based on what was observed before.

Ok. We’re going into memory a little later, not to take to overload the whole thing here…
When the mind is agitated, the thoughts are mostly concerned with current situation. They appear in an uncoordinated manner but they mostly seem to have a purpose to solve immediate questions of life. So they do not wander into exotic territories, but stay within some area of concern. The current of thoughts and emotions may feel quite strong - it forms the "momentum" I wrote about above.

Good looking! Just continue with this.
During daily activities I see another problem: frequent misinterpretation of sensations arising in the body. There are many feelings coming from the body, for example "tiredness", interpreted as "me" being tired. Quite often the sensations of the body are misinterpreted as some kind of emotion concerning "me" and not the state of the body.

This is good. The identification doesn’t stop just by intention.
The realisation of this “misinterpretation” is already big insight!
Just stay with it.
I still have a big problem with decisions: there is a feeling they cannot just happen by themselves! The "I" is powerless, it's obvious, but there must be some will acting through this human being here.

Why?

If the separation is just an illusion, it's easy to interpret this will as a single enormous Will acting through all of Being. But is it so? Is it necessary to look for something singular here? It may be rather like flow of water - is water a single entity? I am quite lost.

Please don’t try to imagine here. There’s nothing to imagine.
Do you have any remembrances of you childhood?
Maybe as a three year old kid?
Could you possibly remember how it was?
How was then the feeling of ‘I am’?
How were things decided?

Unfortunately most adults forget about that. But it is not gone. It is just overlaid.





Here is a video how scientists deal with the issue:

https://vimeo.com/90101368



And an exercise to find out about doer ship:

Although you might see that there is no noticer/observer/witness,
there may still be the feeling of identification of being the ‘doer’.
That it still ‘feels’ like there is a self that is the ‘chooser’.

So let’s have a look at this as it has to do with the sense of seeing.

Take a few relaxed breaths to let the dust settle for a while, and then:

Look on your right.

Then look on your left.

Finally, bring your head back to centre, close your eyes and look in front.

Okay, so when you look on the right, the view on the right is seen (whatever that is).

When you look on the left, the view on the left is seen (whatever that is).

And then, when you look in front of you with eyes closed, the view in front is seen
(ie ‘black space’).

So, when the view on the right is seen, do you have the ‘choice’ not to see?
I’m not asking can you ‘choose’ to see something else like another view or ‘black space’ if you close your eyes.

- The question is; can you turn seeing off?

- Can you NOT see what is seen?

- Same thing with the view on the left, can you NOT see the view on the left?

- Same thing with the view in front with closed eyes, can you NOT see the ‘black space’?

- Can you turn off seeing?

- What did the 'chooser' choose? Did a 'self' choose something?

- If you are unable to choose what you're aware of, then what else is there to choose?


Please answer the last questions (-) one by one.

I'm really very grateful to you for spending time helping me to untie this strange knot of existence. Thanks a lot and wish you all the best things possible! :)

Thank you too for going into all this. You are most welcome.


All the best

nina
Now. Here. That.

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mpsi
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Re: Hi

Postby mpsi » Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:03 pm

Dear nina,
I’ve exchanged the word “but” by “and” in your sentence below.
How does it feel to read it like this?
I understand that the actual experience of here and now is the key a n d there is so much momentum going on in life of this human being, all the plans and responsibilities make this human mind very anxious at moments.

This is brilliant. Thank you!

I still have a big problem with decisions: there is a feeling they cannot just happen by themselves! The "I" is powerless, it's obvious, but there must be some will acting through this human being here.

Why?

Good question. Ultimately, it seems that the story demands a protagonist. The logic of a story is that it has to continue, expand or to have a coda - a finishing. But if suddenly it is stated that the whole story was a fabrication there is some dissatisfaction. Few days ago I saw an interesting thing about stories in my six years old daughter: another girl told her there is a monster called Momo killing children with a knife and gave her some description of the monster (for example it has big ears). When I heard it, the first thing I told my daughter was that this is fake, there is no Momo and that the girl made that story up. But my daughter couldn't accept this simple rejection of the story and was clearly still afraid of Momo. So I told her that if the Momo monster exists, there is also a giant octopus which is always on look out for monsters and when it sees Momo it will catch it with one of its arms and eat it or put it to a cage. And this new story let my daughter calm down. One can see how pronounced is the need to believe in stories in small children and while adults are more sceptical, I think that this need still lingers on.

Answers to the questions about the exercise:
- The question is; can you turn seeing off?

No, I can't. The eyes are always looking. Attention to what is seen may not be there, but seeing doesn't stop. However, I had once an experience of not seeing through the eyes,

- Can you NOT see what is seen?

No, no way.

- Same thing with the view on the left, can you NOT see the view on the left?

No, I can't.

- Same thing with the view in front with closed eyes, can you NOT see the ‘black space’?

No, I can't.

- Can you turn off seeing?

No.

- What did the 'chooser' choose? Did a 'self' choose something?

No, I can't see any chooser here. There was an earlier decision to perform this exercise, and to keep the commitment to this whole enterprise. The usual way of descritpion would be "I decided to do that", but now it has become acceptable to just state that the decison was made. It doesn't make much difference in the inner monologue. Not claiming ownership of the decision relaxes some mental tension.

- If you are unable to choose what you're aware of, then what else is there to choose?

Strangely, nothing.


All the best

Marcin

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suma
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Re: Hi

Postby suma » Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:54 pm

Dear Marcin,


yes, in children one can very well see how fantasy and perception mingles.
(We had this momo-thing as a fear causing something as well…)
However are we adults really above all that?
The internet with the social media and all that is a good source to raise temper just by
distributing fake news as real and true news as fake.
Politicians practice that freely by interpreting things according to their agenda.

No, I can't see any chooser here. There was an earlier decision to perform this exercise, and to keep the commitment to this whole enterprise. The usual way of descritpion would be "I decided to do that", but now it has become acceptable to just state that the decison was made. It doesn't make much difference in the inner monologue. Not claiming ownership of the decision relaxes some mental tension.
Very good.

If you are unable to choose what you're aware of, then what else is there to choose?

Strangely, nothing.

Isn’t that amazing?


So let’s have a closer look at the body.

Let’s examine the solidity of the head.
Press a finger down onto the top of the ‘head’.
Notice what is actually present.

--Is it a head, or is it just a sensation labelled ‘pressure’ and a story ABOUT a head?

--Do the same with a finger on each side of the head.

--Is a head actually found, or are there just sensations again?

--And is there anything between the pressure points, or is it just a thought that says there must be something between them?

Please answer the last four questions.

All the best

nina
Now. Here. That.

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mpsi
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Re: Hi

Postby mpsi » Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:25 pm

Dear nina,
--Is it a head, or is it just a sensation labelled ‘pressure’ and a story ABOUT a head?

There are actually many sensations: "pressure" in the finger and in the head, but also a whole network of sensations in the head, especially in the face. I am headache-prone and there is almost constant slight discomfort in some parts of the head, and pressing a finger on top makes me more aware of it. The pressure on top of the head easily feels almost painful and there is quite a lot of leftover slightly uncomfortable sensation some time after.

The label "head" of course is just a label, but a network of sensations activated when some point on the head is pressed feels real.

--Do the same with a finger on each side of the head.

When I press a finger on left or right side of the head, i can feel a reaction on both the pressed side and the opposite one, where muscles have to contract somewhat to counter the pressure.

--Is a head actually found, or are there just sensations again?

There are just sensations. And of course they are quite different from the set of sensations when the head was pressed from above. But there is a mental map somewhere which says that these sensations are located not far one from another.

--And is there anything between the pressure points, or is it just a thought that says there must be something between them?

I do not feel anything inside the head, but there is a feeling of definite distance between the pressure points, coming mostly from the distance a hand has to travel between them. So there is no direct feeling of anything inside the head, but there is a strong inference from sensations in the hand.

Best regards,

Marcin

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suma
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Re: Hi

Postby suma » Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:04 am

Dear Marcin,

There are actually many sensations: "pressure" in the finger and in the head, but also a whole network of sensations in the head, especially in the face. I am headache-prone and there is almost constant slight discomfort in some parts of the head, and pressing a finger on top makes me more aware of it. The pressure on top of the head easily feels almost painful and there is quite a lot of leftover slightly uncomfortable sensation some time after.



These are all thought prescriptions. A mere “story” about the head.
The question was just to notice what is actually present.
What is there in direct experience? Not more and not less.
The face was not subject of this examination…( :

--Do the same with a finger on each side of the head.

When I press a finger on left or right side of the head, i can feel a reaction on both the pressed side and the opposite one, where muscles have to contract somewhat to counter the pressure.

Maybe the exercise was not clearly enough presented;
it was supposed to press a finger on each side simultaneously.
So one finger on the left and one finger on the right side.

Please refer only to mere sensations. A sensation may be tingling, a sensation of constriction,
a sensation of coldness or warmness, itching, heat, vibrations, pulsating, trembling,
expansion or constriction; just mere bare and naked bodily sensations.

i can feel a reaction on both the pressed side and the opposite one, where muscles have to contract somewhat to counter the pressure.

…this is all thought description.



“--Is a head actually found, or are there just sensations again?

There are just sensations. And of course they are quite different from the set of sensations when the head was pressed from above.

Good. Just sensations.

But there is a mental map somewhere which says that these sensations are located not far one from another.

Can this mental map be directly experienced?
Where is this mental map located exactly?
Who carries this map?


--And is there anything between the pressure points, or is it just a thought that says there must be something between them?

I do not feel anything inside the head, but there is a feeling of definite distance between the pressure points, coming mostly from the distance a hand has to travel between them. So there is no direct feeling of anything inside the head, but there is a strong inference from sensations in the hand.

Ok. So there is a feeling or not a feeling and an instance which states the BUT.
What is that instance exatly and where is it lokated?




Now please do the exercise again:

Let’s examine the solidity of the head.
Press a finger down onto the top of the ‘head’.
Notice what is actually present.

Is it a head, or is it just a sensation labelled ‘pressure’ and a story ABOUT a head?

Do the same with a finger on each side of the head.
Is a head actually found, or are there just sensations again?

Is there anything between the pressure points,
or is it just a thought that says there must be something between them?


Please answer the green marked questions one by one.


All the best

nina
Now. Here. That.

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mpsi
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Re: Hi

Postby mpsi » Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:30 pm

Dear nina,

But there is a mental map somewhere which says that these sensations are located not far one from another.

Can this mental map be directly experienced?

I'm not sure. It seems now that there are 2 maps: one is a thought map, that just references sensations by supposed proximity and checks adjacent regions for anticipated sensations, and another one is a map in the hand (or maybe 2 separate maps for each of them) that directs its movement. The first one - thought map - is accesible in a way that it is used when the attention is directed to different body parts and the sensations there are felt. The second one is accessible to the hands, and not to the thoughts.

Where is this mental map located exactly?

The first map is located in the mind. The sensations coming from different body parts are glued together by thoughts.

Who carries this map?

Noone.

--And is there anything between the pressure points, or is it just a thought that says there must be something between them?
I do not feel anything inside the head, but there is a feeling of definite distance between the pressure points, coming mostly from the distance a hand has to travel between them. So there is no direct feeling of anything inside the head, but there is a strong inference from sensations in the hand.

Ok. So there is a feeling or not a feeling and an instance which states the BUT.
What is that instance exatly and where is it lokated?

These are thoughts. It seems that feedback coming from the hands (sensations felt there) is used to measure distances between sensations from the body. This measuring is done with thoughts, redrawing and reaffirming the mental map of the body.

The exercise again:

Is it a head, or is it just a sensation labelled ‘pressure’ and a story ABOUT a head?

It's a sensation labelled "pressure" and a story, not only about a head, but also about how it is an unpleasant sensation and how it is going to feel bad. There is clearly some old conditioning - I'd say all the way from the early childhood - to avoid and to label as unpleasant all pressure applied to the top of the head.

Do the same with a finger on each side of the head.
Is a head actually found, or are there just sensations again?

There are just sensations. They feel somewhat different - again, as in the experiment with raising one of the hands, the left side feels more "charged".

Is there anything between the pressure points,
or is it just a thought that says there must be something between them?

The left and right side sensations feel separate and there is a gap between. Thoughts are giving a size and shape estimate of the gap.


All the best

Marcin

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suma
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Re: Hi

Postby suma » Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:14 pm

Dear Marcin,
These are thoughts. It seems that feedback coming from the hands (sensations felt there) is used to measure distances between sensations from the body. This measuring is done with thoughts, redrawing and reaffirming the mental map of the body.


Ok. Please make sure not to refer to thoughts when we inquire into the exercises.
It is not for mental entertainment what we are trying to explore here.
The habit to refer to the mind is very strong and persistent, so I’m pointing it out again and again.
Hope you don’t mind….( :
Or better: hope you mind not to mind….




So here is one more thought exercise:

Finding the Gap

This exercise has a dual purpose. Firstly, to become aware of each and every though as they appear.
Secondly, the careful looking for the gap is an example of how carefully to look when looking for the ‘separate self’.
Here is a step-by-step description of how to look at thoughts.

First thing is to sit for at least 10-15 minutes quietly somewhere, several times throughout your day.
Close your eyes and just notice thoughts.
Don’t engage with any thought, just notice them.

1. Notice the current thought that is present. Like when you sit observing the body, a thought might arise “this is my feet” or “here is a pain” or “my breathing is too quick” or “I am bored with this exercise” or “I have better things to do” or any sorts of thoughts.

2. This thought will pass and another thought will come. So just observe this thought passing.

3. Then wait for the next thought to come.

4. When the next thought is present, just notice it, and see how it passes.

5. Then wait for the next thought to come.

6. Repeat #4 and #5 many-many times.

Between the 2 thoughts there is a gap. It can be very short or subtle, just a second or a few seconds before the next thought come in.
This is how to look at thoughts:

Looking how they come and go, and observing the short gap between them.
Noticing how the current thought is passing.
And waiting for the next thought to come.

Please do the following exercise:

Throughout your waking day, try to observe the gap between thoughts as often as possible.
It can be done by noticing that ‘thinking’ is happening right now, then stop and just simply wait for the next thought to come. In the ‘waiting’ there is a gap between two thoughts.

Let me know how you go.

All the best

nina
Now. Here. That.

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mpsi
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Re: Hi

Postby mpsi » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:51 pm

Hi nina,

Ok. Please make sure not to refer to thoughts when we inquire into the exercises.
It is not for mental entertainment what we are trying to explore here.
The habit to refer to the mind is very strong and persistent, so I’m pointing it out again and again.
Hope you don’t mind….( :
Or better: hope you mind not to mind….

Thank you for reminding me of that. :)

About the exercise:

I've been quite agitated today, and it wasn't really possible to see a gap between the thoughts. There was at moments a feeling that between thoughts is not an empty space, but a space where any thought or sensation is possible, as if everything was there already. Thoughts seemed crowding out of the gap, or it felt like strong white light colored by thoughts, or thoughts seemed to be empty bubbles in a kind of very thick liquid (all these images are just thoughts about it and not a real experience, but I do not have a better way to describe it).

I also noticed that any set of sensory and body sensations seems to resonate with thoughts in a way, that there is a constant background "thought-odour" changing with new sensations arising, but not actually logically connected to the senstions themselves.

Best regards,

Marcin

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suma
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Re: Hi

Postby suma » Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:45 am

Dear Marcin,


thanks for all the nice lookings.
Please continue with the thought exercise.

It is really a quite subtle undertaking what we are trying to endeavour here.
It is about the one and only question: “Who or what am I?”
All the exercises are just to point out and to make looking easier.
Who am I?
This question cannot be answered by the mind.
Is there anything like a me or an I?
When a little child is born it just knows nothing about anything.
It doesn’t know about the mother or the father, it doesn’t know anything about the body.
The child is not male or female. It doesn’t identify with anything.

So when you state “I’ve been quite agitated today”, can you see the ‘I’ in that?
Without the ‘I’ it would just be “quite agitated today”.


When you think you find "agitation", try to define (look what the actual experience (AE) is):

The label ‘agitation’ is AE of thought and not AE of agitation.
The sensation labelled ‘agitation’ is AE of sensation and not AE of agitation.
The image labelled ‘me/body/I’ is AE of colour and not AE of person in agitation.
The thoughts ABOUT agitation and what it means is AE of thought and not AE of someone agitating.

It is really subtle and against all prior conditioning.

So now please go into the subject of these questions.
Why are we doing what we are doing here?
If there is really nothing like a me, then....
Please answer one by one.


How will life change?

How will you change?

What will be different?

What is missing?


All the best

nina
Now. Here. That.

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mpsi
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Re: Hi

Postby mpsi » Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:08 pm

Dear nina,

It was a day dominated by negative thoughts and feelings.

Continued with the thought exercise, but didn't accomplish much. Still unable to see gaps between thoughts. What was seen instead was thoughts coming not one by one, but multiple thoughts at once - a new thought seemed to "erupt" before a former one passed. A lot of them were about "I". This "I" seems to be everywhere, taking more than a half of attention, sometimes hiding, sometimes playing weird games.

The AE exercise is very sobering, but it is taxing to analyze everything in this way. The "I" seems quicker and stronger than the ability to analyze AE.

Answers to your questions:
How will life change?
Don't know. Overall, probably not much. Hope for more inner peace.
How will you change?
There will be no more "me".
What will be different?
All self-concerned thoughts should start to be less obsessive. There will be no more compulsive clinging to "me".
What is missing?
Clear realization that "I" is just thoughts.

Thank you for all you've been doing here. All the best.

Marcin

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suma
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Re: Hi

Postby suma » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:27 am

Dear Marcin,

thank you for the answered questions.
It was a day dominated by negative thoughts and feelings.

Continued with the thought exercise, but didn't accomplish much.
Still unable to see gaps between thoughts.

Were the thoughts negative because you didn’t accomplish much?
If so, please forget all about the gap.
Just be with what is actually there.
If there is no gap, OK, then there is no gap.

What was seen instead was thoughts coming not one by one, but multiple thoughts at once –
a new thought seemed to "erupt" before a former one passed. A lot of them were about "I".
This "I" seems to be everywhere, taking more than a half of attention, sometimes hiding,
sometimes playing weird games.

Very good! You see, now you come in touch with it.
This is the truth of the moment.



Here is an exercise to get more in touch with it:

Just tell yourself – like a mantra – again and again just: “I”.
Look at your thoughts and repeat the mantra.
Look at anything and repeat the mantra “I”.
Look at any feeling and repeat the mantra.

Feel free and happy using this word. Embrace it. Value it.
And embrace anything it refers to. Love it.
Love this “I”.


It is beautiful and great to have it. It is a gift.
It is useless and painful to fight against ones own “I” or “Me”.
Allow it fully to be there.

What kind of inner pictures, emotions and sensations are coming up?

Let me know how you go.


Wishing you really all the best

nina
Now. Here. That.

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mpsi
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Re: Hi

Postby mpsi » Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:55 pm

Dear nina,

It was a day full to the brim with work activities yesterday, somewhat unexpectedly. That's why I haven't reported anything.

Were the thoughts negative because you didn’t accomplish much?
If so, please forget all about the gap.
Just be with what is actually there.
If there is no gap, OK, then there is no gap.

No, that was not the main reason. There were many other things as well. Basically just a bad day. But as you suggested I've stopped looking for the gap for now.

It is useless and painful to fight against ones own “I” or “Me”.
Allow it fully to be there.

What kind of inner pictures, emotions and sensations are coming up?

Mental chanting of "I" brings a hot feeling inside, something like a very hot hand touching the body from inside. This touch feels both intimate and somewhat shameful, at once pleasurable and unpleasurable, something not suitable to be shared with other people. And "I" feels very megalomaniac, everything becomes related to "me", in a blown out of proportions fashion: there is a thought process trying to link any news to "me", as if everything was happening just because of "me". But also, again on the body side, it brings attention back to the body, but seen as a coherent unit acting in the environment.

Best regards,

Marcin

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suma
Posts: 357
Joined: Sun May 27, 2018 5:19 am

Re: Hi

Postby suma » Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:23 pm

Dear Marcin,


No, that was not the main reason. There were many other things as well. Basically just a bad day.

Ok.

Mental chanting of "I" brings a hot feeling inside, something like a very hot hand touching the body from inside.
This touch feels both intimate and somewhat shameful, at once pleasurable and unpleasurable, something not suitable
to be shared with other people. And "I" feels very megalomaniac, everything becomes related to "me",
in a blown out of proportions fashion: there is a thought process trying to link any news to "me",
as if everything was happening just because of "me".

Very good. Let all the layers of believes and convictions come into consciousness.
And let all the emotions and feelings coming along be there.
Just looking at all that is enough.
Is there something like a core believe that can be traced?
Something like a main topic?


But also, again on the body side, it brings attention back to the body,
but seen as a coherent unit acting in the environment.

Yes. Just acknowledge that. Be with it.

All the best

nina
Now. Here. That.

User avatar
mpsi
Posts: 98
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:52 am

Re: Hi

Postby mpsi » Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:45 am

Dear nina,
Is there something like a core believe that can be traced?
Something like a main topic?
Yes, there is: "I am different". Not fitting very well or even not fitting at all, like a piece of another puzzle. It took some time to uncover it, but basically this seems to be the main topic of "I" here.

All the best,

Marcin


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