A tickle in my chest.Good! Curious - what sensation?
Aha, got it, it's now. Eternal is a thought.There's a subtle glitch here -- is it eternal or is it now? Hint: does 'eternal' exist in DE?
Busted. It's a thought story. Anything beyond "now" is a thought story.Is this known in DE or a thought story?
Wow. No, forever is a thought. There is only now.Given that it's always now, is there any such thing as forever?
Thanks! I really appreciate all of your help.You're doing great!
Beautiful!Aha, got it, it's now. Eternal is a thought.
You're welcome and thank you! I got a ton from doing this.I really appreciate all of your help.
Memory is a thought. It's 'made of' thought.What is memory exactly? What is the memory 'made of'?
The memory appears now. In the present moment.WHEN does the memory appear?
The labeling. A 'memory' thought is labeled a memory. But it is still just a thought.What is the exact difference between a 'general' thought and a 'memory' thought?
I don't know if it is known EXACTLY. There is a thought of something and then another thought that labels the previous thought as a memory.How is it known EXACTLY that a 'memory' thought refers to something that has happened?
It's 'made of' thought. Seems Iike a trick question ;)What is a future thought 'made of'?
It appears now. In the present moment.When does the future thought appear?
A future thought is accompanied by another thought that labels it a 'future' thought.What is the exact difference between a 'general thought' and a 'future' thought?
It is know to be a 'future' thought because there is another thought that says the other thought is about the future.How is it known EXACTLY that a 'future' thought refers to something that will happen?
The difference is that one set of thoughts is labeled as past by another thought and one labeled as future. The difference is conceptual, i.e. It's created in thought.What is the EXACT difference between thoughts about past and future? If there is a difference and how is that difference is known exactly?
That's great! Thanks for sharing that.It really drove home the fact that I don't control my thoughts.
Can you explain what you meant by that, the "not one abut feeling it in your bones, either" part? Sorry if you did and it went over my head.Our conversation will not be an intellectual one, Cliff, but not one about feeling it in your bones, either. More on that soon.
Yeah, this is the pitfall with expectations. 😉Expectations consist of what, in DE? In fact, what is all of what's quoted above consist of? Is it DE or thought content?I'm sure my expectations are getting in the way here. I see that "I" don't exist except as a thought and that I'm not in control of my thoughts, but that doesn't seem to have the earth-shattering, game changing effect that I was hoping it would. That makes me wonder if I'm not really "seeing it."
Cliff, there have been many "aha" moments along the way. Has there been any shift, however subtle, in the experience of daily life?My only concern is that I don't "feel" any different.
Sure! Seeing through the illusion has nothing to do with any particular feeling or intuition - it's a matter of discovering through a practical investigative process (DE) that allows for seeing what is and isn't real. I hope this helps.Can you explain what you meant by that, the "not one abut feeling it in your bones, either" part? Sorry if you did and it went over my head.Our conversation will not be an intellectual one, Cliff, but not one about feeling it in your bones, either. More on that soon.
It's all thought content.Expectations consist of what, in DE? In fact, what is all of what's quoted above consist of? Is it DE or thought content?
True, there have been "aha" moments and I'm grateful for those. Still, I don't detect a shift in the experience of daily life. Perhaps it is too subtle for me to notice?Cliff, there have been many "aha" moments along the way. Has there been any shift, however subtle, in the experience of daily life?
That does help. I guess I'm waiting for a shift in experience that is perhaps less subtle than what is happening. I recognize that "I" is a thought but if you held a gun to my head, I'd tell you that I still identify as a separate individual, even though that identification is recognized as a thought. That's why I'm reluctant to move to the final questions. It's like part of me see it and another part doesn't. Perhaps I'm not looking closely or deeply enough?Seeing through the illusion has nothing to do with any particular feeling or intuition - it's a matter of discovering through a practical investigative process (DE) that allows for seeing what is and isn't real. I hope this helps.
In the Santa Claus analogy, there is still the man in the red suit.I still identify as a separate individual, even though that identification is recognized as a thought.
When I first gated, there was a very noticable shift, albeit rather subtle.Perhaps it is too subtle for me to notice?
Can you tell me what this is like? Is there anything called I in DE? Is there a thought that there is something real outside of DE? When you look for I, what do you find?It's like part of me see it and another part doesn't.
When I look I can see that "I" is a thought. But there is a habit of taking the "I" thought seriously so that it seems to me that there is actually an "I." Things are taken personally.Can you tell me what this is like?It's like part of me see it and another part doesn't.
There is a thought and story of "I." There is a sense of being and awareness that is labeled "I" as well.Is there anything called I in DE?
There is a thought that thoughts have a reality to them, which is hard for me to dispel. Habitual thinking? Brainwashing? Also, the content of thought is so vivid that it's hard not to be affected.Is there a thought that there is something real outside of DE?
There is a quality that is hard for me to define except to use terms that I've read previously, in that there is an awareness and a sense of being. Those thoughts are attached to the "I" thought. So I find thoughts, but no real "I."When you look for I, what do you find?
Yay! I have faith :)It's clear where 'you' are. 🙂
That sounds about right.Cliff, there is a collapsing of thought content and DE going on -- as if the thoughts are saying that the man in the red Santa suit should wear a sign that reads, "Not Really Santa." 😉
This turned out to be much harder than I thought it would be. A few false starts - I'm working from home today so finding five uninterrupted minutes was surprisingly more challenging than I expected. Another challenge - defining what a thought actually is. Just mental activity? Do lines from songs that pop into my head, e.g. earworms, count as thoughts? Does noticing the dog barking count as a thought? I did count hearing the dog bark and then wondering if the dog barking counted as a "self" thought as a "self" thought. And of course, there are flashes of images, sensations and other impressions that pass too quickly to cognize. So the ratio is approximately 16+ self thoughts vs 4 non-self thoughts and those were all earworms. I heard once somewhere that thoughts were the defined as "the voice in your head" and in another place I heard it defined as all mental activity. I'm leaning toward the latter.Here's an exercise that may be helpful:
Get a sheet of paper and draw a line that divides that sheet in half. Label one half 'self' and the other side 'other'. Sit down and start a timer for 5 minutes. Every time you have a thought make a mark on the sheet. If that thought is about the self put a mark on the self side, if it’s about something else, mark the other side. If a thought about food occurs due to feeling hungry, mark that on the self side. Any thought that refers back to a self should go on the self side. (I'm bored, I'm tired, is the door locked (my safety) that video was funny (I was amused), my back hurts, I am frightened) get it?
Let me know how it goes.
Great job on the exercise!So the ratio is approximately 16+ self thoughts vs 4 non-self thoughts and those were all earworms. I
Cliff, thanks for sharing this - however, I'm not sure it's going to forward the work to keep sharing thought content.Did I mention before that I tend to overthink things?
Not sure what you mean by reportable results. Can you elaborate?Are there reportable results from doing the exercise?
Most thought content is "I" related. Thoughts that start off being about something other than "I" often getting hijacked. The sound of the dog barking is followed by "I wonder what the dog is barking at?"Is there any greater clarity about the nature of thought content?
Sorry about that! I changed terminology mid-stream. I meant, is there anything noteworthy that you got from doing the exercise?Not sure what you mean by reportable results. Can you elaborate?
Well done! So it's not surprising that it's not that easy to break from of the pervasiveness of "I" in thought.Most thought content is "I" related. Thoughts that start off being about something other than "I" often getting hijacked. The sound of the dog barking is followed by "I wonder what the dog is barking at?"
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