Guiding beyond gate

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s-p-a-c-e
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Re: Guiding beyond gate

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Wed May 02, 2018 3:12 pm

I dont quite get what you mean.
Snapping with intent builds a feeling of control and a 'me'. With thoughts explaining, that 'i now intend to snap'. After it already happened.
The movement of snapping also slows down.

That feeling of control is a feeling of control.
Adding 'me' to it, whilst habitual, is un-necessary.
Does control need a 'controller'?

"With thoughts explaining, that 'i now intend to snap'."

Just snap with intent.
Don't think. :)
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne

Author, The Faun's Apprentice - see on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fauns-Apprenti ... B01AR2B63U

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Anne71
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Re: Guiding beyond gate

Postby Anne71 » Wed May 02, 2018 3:29 pm

That feeling of control is a feeling of control.
Adding 'me' to it, whilst habitual, is un-necessary.

S.th. has control, but it is not me.

Does control need a 'controller'?
No, like walking does not need a walker or snapping a snapper.

"With thoughts explaining, that 'i now intend to snap'."
Just snap with intent.
Ok. It snapped. I dont know when or how it exactly will happen, but it does/did.

That is really interesting.
I thought 'control' is a construct or illusion like responsibility and shame and crumbles away with realizing that Anne is an illusion.

There is control somewhere. And nobody has to worry.

Ah, maybe there is responsibility too, but it is not mine.

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Anne71
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Re: Guiding beyond gate

Postby Anne71 » Wed May 02, 2018 3:32 pm

Thats enough to integrate and think about today.
I will read your next post tmrrw.

Have a lovely evening.
Anne

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Re: Guiding beyond gate

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Wed May 02, 2018 3:40 pm

That feeling of control is a feeling of control.
Adding 'me' to it, whilst habitual, is un-necessary.

S.th. has control, but it is not me.

Does control need a 'controller'?
No, like walking does not need a walker or snapping a snapper.

"With thoughts explaining, that 'i now intend to snap'."
Just snap with intent.
Ok. It snapped. I dont know when or how it exactly will happen, but it does/did.

That is really interesting.
I thought 'control' is a construct or illusion like responsibility and shame and crumbles away with realizing that Anne is an illusion.

There is control somewhere. And nobody has to worry.

Ah, maybe there is responsibility too, but it is not mine.

It's like this: clap your hands once.

What happened?

Did 'Anne' clap? How can 'she', 'she' is a story. So, not 'Anne' then.
Well, did clapping just happen?
But then you were the one that clapped, not Mary down the road.
Ah, but are you 'Anne'?
No. You are not 'Anne', you are you, the one that thought she was 'Anne' for years.
But now you're not 'Anne', you think you are no-one.
That's another fiction.

You can clap anytime.

You can also think that clapping just happens, anytime.

You are un-observable, so no point in looking.

Just entertain the possibility that you are clapping, and you are not 'Anne'.

This is so obvious that it's not.
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne

Author, The Faun's Apprentice - see on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fauns-Apprenti ... B01AR2B63U

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Anne71
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Re: Guiding beyond gate

Postby Anne71 » Thu May 03, 2018 10:30 am

Hi John,

d 'Anne' clap? How can 'she', 'she' is a story. So, not 'Anne' then.
Well, did clapping just happen?
But then you were the one that clapped, not Mary down the road.
Ah, but are you 'Anne'?
No. You are not 'Anne', you are you, the one that thought she was 'Anne' for years.
But now you're not 'Anne', you think you are no-one.
That's another fiction.

OK

You can clap anytime.

You can also think that clapping just happens, anytime.

You are un-observable, so no point in looking.

Just entertain the possibility that you are clapping, and you are not 'Anne'.

OK
I totally get it.

But… then i don’t
:-)

I am not sure what the positive outcome is of transfering doing and control and making shitty descisions from Anne to something bigger.
What is the difference between living as Anne and living as me?

I’ll try to explain myself:
Anne is an illusion with limited and sometimes restricted habits, perspectives, likes and dislikes.
Living as ‘Anne’ depended a lot on thinking. I took all toughts as true and important.

Living as unlimited me is effortless, bc things are done and emotions happen and nature is seen without thought commenting everything and trying to control events.

Loooking forward to your thoughts.
Anne

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Re: Guiding beyond gate

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Thu May 03, 2018 11:01 am

OK
I totally get it.

But… then i don’t
:-)

LOL :)

I am not sure what the positive outcome is of transfering doing and control and making shitty descisions from Anne to something bigger.
What is the difference between living as Anne and living as me?

The clapping one is the one conditioned, the one that was living as 'Anne'.

Anne is an illusion with limited and sometimes restricted habits, perspectives, likes and dislikes.
Living as ‘Anne’ depended a lot on thinking. I took all toughts as true and important.

Living as unlimited me is effortless, bc things are done and emotions happen and nature is seen without thought commenting everything and trying to control events.

Do you want to be unlimited, untouchable, effortless, deathless?
Then, just align as awareness, as observing.
You may be very happy there. :) YouTube is full of it.

The one that clapped...actually, clap again to renew it.
(No apologies for going all Zen on you.) :D

Ok, that one, for simplicity's sake I'll call you, can do that very well.
You can also align as the body, you can do that very well. You'll control there.
You can also align as some probability of existence, how does that sound? Oops, no control here.

These are all possibilities. If you can align with 'Anne' for years (which is some achievement), then you can do any of the above.

If we strip away the layers for a moment, what are we left with?
Strip away the body, thoughts, feelings, sensations.
Depending on what you've been taught, and agreed to see as true, you will interpret it one way or another.
That is, add another layer, onto an indescribable, unobservable, yet perfectly obvious, you.

Clap. There you are, and there you go.

You can't hold on to you, because that is wanting to make it an idea.

Where is the you that just clapped?

Gone forever.

Clap again.

You is a river.

Can you have no control?

Maybe we have limits to our control. When it rains, don't control that. Putting a brolly up, yep, that's me. :)

Isn't it absurd to say you don't put a brolly up?
It would be like saying its not raining.

Warm wishes,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne

Author, The Faun's Apprentice - see on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fauns-Apprenti ... B01AR2B63U

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Re: Guiding beyond gate

Postby Anne71 » Thu May 03, 2018 11:08 am

(No apologies for going all Zen on you.) :D

No worries, throw everything at me that you've got. Hit me with the zen-stick if necessary.
:-)

The suns out. I'll go, sit in the sun, ponder about your answer and 'll come back in the evening.

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Re: Guiding beyond gate

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Thu May 03, 2018 11:10 am

(No apologies for going all Zen on you.) :D

No worries, throw everything at me that you've got. Hit me with the zen-stick if necessary.
:-)

The suns out. I'll go, sit in the sun, ponder about your answer and 'll come back in the evening.

Lovely!!! Soak it up. :)

john
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne

Author, The Faun's Apprentice - see on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fauns-Apprenti ... B01AR2B63U

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Re: Guiding beyond gate

Postby Anne71 » Thu May 03, 2018 4:46 pm

The clapping one is the one conditioned, the one that was living as 'Anne'.

Hmh, that was an unexpected information. And just ‘clapping’ without ‘one’ is also the conditioned one?


Living as unlimited me is effortless, bc things are done and emotions happen and nature is seen without thought commenting everything and trying to control events.
Do you want to be unlimited, untouchable, effortless, deathless?
Then, just align as awareness, as observing.
You may be very happy there. :) YouTube is full of it.

Is that being at ease in the world?

What else is on the menue?

a) Unlimitedness by being aware.
and
b) Living as a conditioned something but knowing that it is limited.
c)
???

The one that clapped...actually, clap again to renew it.
(No apologies for going all Zen on you.) :D

Ok, that one, for simplicity's sake I'll call you, can do that very well.
You can also align as the body, you can do that very well. You'll control there.

Ok

You can also align as some probability of existence, how does that sound? Oops, no control here.

Like - align as a rainbow?


These are all possibilities. If you can align with 'Anne' for years (which is some achievement), then you can do any of the above.

If we strip away the layers for a moment, what are we left with?
Strip away the body, thoughts, feelings, sensations.
Depending on what you've been taught, and agreed to see as true, you will interpret it one way or another.
That is, add another layer, onto an indescribable, unobservable, yet perfectly obvious, you.

Clap. There you are, and there you go.

You can't hold on to you, because that is wanting to make it an idea.


Yes. Ideas are very comforting :-)

Where is the you that just clapped?

Gone forever.

bc i changed

Clap again.

You is a river.

So is Anne the rock at the shore where emotions and thoughts and stuff break like waves and possibilities become fixed and materialize like drops spraying into the air?


I wrote a new story. I guess it has some meaning, but i am not sure which.


“Oh, look”, says Pooh to Piglet. “The yellow dandelion turned into a fluffy white ball.”
Piglet steps beside his friend and bows down to the fragile crown of the flower to take a closer look.
“Pretty.” He sneezes.
The white cloud bursts into feathery little stars.
“Oops, sorry”, Piglet says and glances at Pooh.
“There it goes”, says Pooh, “just like my mind when I am trying to think.”
“Your mind?”, asks Piglet, relieved that Pooh is not angry at him for sneezing.
“Yes, first there is a thought and at the end there is confusing fluffy stuff flying around in my head.”
“Hmh”, says Piglet, because he doesn’t know anything else to say. He glances at Poohs head. From the outside it looks quite normal, but you never know.

A soft wind sweeps the dandelionseeds up.
“Maybe I have it backwards”, Pooh mutters to himself and watches the seeds gliding over the meadows.
Piglet sniffles. “You mean, thinking is like sneezing at a dandelion?”
“I mean, you can’t sneeze a dandelion back together.”
“No, I guess you can’t”, says Piglet, “but I haven’t tried yet."

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Re: Guiding beyond gate

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Thu May 03, 2018 6:13 pm

Hi Anne,
The clapping one is the one conditioned, the one that was living as 'Anne'.
Hmh, that was an unexpected information. And just ‘clapping’ without ‘one’ is also the conditioned one?

Words are so bloody confusing. :)

You are a living being, and can clap, and can be conditioned into thinking you are someone called 'Anne'.

Is that being at ease in the world?

What else is on the menue?

a) Unlimitedness by being aware.
and
b) Living as a conditioned something but knowing that it is limited.
c)
???

c)

Where is the you that just clapped?
Gone forever.
bc i changed

It was never there as a fixed entity.
You can't change.
You can tell a story of change, of how 'you' changed.

I wrote a new story. I guess it has some meaning, but i am not sure which.

“Oh, look”, says Pooh to Piglet. “The yellow dandelion turned into a fluffy white ball.”
Piglet steps beside his friend and bows down to the fragile crown of the flower to take a closer look.
“Pretty.” He sneezes.
The white cloud bursts into feathery little stars.
“Oops, sorry”, Piglet says and glances at Pooh.
“There it goes”, says Pooh, “just like my mind when I am trying to think.”
“Your mind?”, asks Piglet, relieved that Pooh is not angry at him for sneezing.
“Yes, first there is a thought and at the end there is confusing fluffy stuff flying around in my head.”
“Hmh”, says Piglet, because he doesn’t know anything else to say. He glances at Poohs head. From the outside it looks quite normal, but you never know.

A soft wind sweeps the dandelionseeds up.
“Maybe I have it backwards”, Pooh mutters to himself and watches the seeds gliding over the meadows.
Piglet sniffles. “You mean, thinking is like sneezing at a dandelion?”
“I mean, you can’t sneeze a dandelion back together.”
“No, I guess you can’t”, says Piglet, “but I haven’t tried yet."

Who wrote this?

'Anne'? I think we're past that. :)
Causes and conditions? Really. Causes and conditions wrote a unique story about Pooh and Piglet. Those are some special causes and conditions.

"What are causes and conditions," asked Piglet.
"Why do you ask?" said Pooh, wanting to be doing other more important things.
"Oh, I just wondered."
"Shall we go for a walk?" said Pooh.
"Yes, I'd love too," said Piglet.
And off they went, Piglet wondering what causes and conditions were at play.

Piglet bit into an apple. It was crisp.


/john
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne

Author, The Faun's Apprentice - see on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fauns-Apprenti ... B01AR2B63U

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Re: Guiding beyond gate

Postby Anne71 » Thu May 03, 2018 6:33 pm

c)

Haha!!!
No place to lay my head.

"What are causes and conditions," asked Piglet.
"Why do you ask?" said Pooh, wanting to be doing other more important things.
"Oh, I just wondered."
"Shall we go for a walk?" said Pooh.
"Yes, I'd love too," said Piglet.
And off they went, Piglet wondering what causes and conditions were at play.

Piglet bit into an apple. It was crisp.

And here goes the zen teacher :-))
Feels like i got hit - by a joke.

Who wrote this?

No Anne - check
No causes and conditions - check
Me / conciousness / life / mystery

Will check in back, tomorrow. :-)


I don't use 'John' as a reference point. 'He' is long gone.

Do you have a/several reference point/s?

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Re: Guiding beyond gate

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Fri May 04, 2018 10:28 am

c)
Haha!!!
No place to lay my head.

Wherever I lay my hat, that's my dome. :D
Who wrote this?

No Anne - check
No causes and conditions - check
Me / conciousness / life / mystery

Here, right now, you know you are here - check it.
...and you don't know what that is.
You know without knowing how you know.
Spend a short while knowing you are here without any attempt to solve, or think about it.
Relax and let go, nothing to achieve, nowhere to go.
Given.
All is given. Receive for a short while.

I don't use 'John' as a reference point. 'He' is long gone.
Do you have a/several reference point/s?
No reference points.

If you popped a budding rose in a glass of water.
And visited it each day to see the rose.
Which rose is the rose?
Each day, the rose is anew. Maybe a new petal, different hue.
Is there a frozen rose?
Feel into the anewness of the rose.

john
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne

Author, The Faun's Apprentice - see on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fauns-Apprenti ... B01AR2B63U

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Anne71
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Re: Guiding beyond gate

Postby Anne71 » Fri May 04, 2018 11:24 am

Hi John,

I'll go sit with this in the woods and write back tomorrow .

Anne

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Re: Guiding beyond gate

Postby Anne71 » Sat May 05, 2018 8:54 am

Hi John,
Where is the you that just clapped?
Gone forever.


bc i changed

It was never there as a fixed entity.
You can't change.
You can tell a story of change, of how 'you' changed.

I cant quite grasp what you are talking about. And thinking about it will probably not help to understand.


Here, right now, you know you are here - check it.

Yep, i m here.

...and you don't know what that is.
You know without knowing how you know.
Spend a short while knowing you are here without any attempt to solve, or think about it.
Relax and let go, nothing to achieve, nowhere to go.
Given.
All is given. Receive for a short while.

I am sitting at a bench in the forrest, looking at the river. I can hear birds and sheep and even frogs. The sun is shining through layers of green. I didnt have to do anything for this. Just be quiet and look and listen.


If you popped a budding rose in a glass of water.
And visited it each day to see the rose.
Which rose is the rose?
Each day, the rose is anew. Maybe a new petal, different hue.
Is there a frozen rose?
Feel into the anewness of the rose.

My minds says, its just semantics. Bc its the rose i put into the glass. Nobody exchanged it for a different one.
But i understand your perspective.
Like me being different from yesterday… new cells, new microbiome inside and on my skin, different air in my lungs. All without me doing anything conciously.
But still we are only talking about the body of the rose or my body.

Somebody said recently to me that i didnt change much since i was a teenager. And it was not meant as a compliment. That hurt a lot.

I already told you about the monster-dream in the house.

I sometimes had dreams lying i bed and not being able to move and people came in and i was afraid.

Yesterday i dreamt about driving in a car. I was on a parking lot and wanted to leave but the car was not doing what i wanted. In the end the car drove backwards over a kind of cliff and i felt falling and i knew i would die but it was the first time i was ok with it. I was courious what would happen.

It might be a story i am telling myself but i think there is less fear of loosing the story of Anne.

Greetings from Anne

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Re: Guiding beyond gate

Postby s-p-a-c-e » Sat May 05, 2018 9:58 am

Hi,

Here, right now, you know you are here - check it.

Yep, i m here.


How do you know to answer 'Yep'?
Where do you go to check if you're here or not?


I am sitting at a bench in the forrest, looking at the river. I can hear birds and sheep and even frogs. The sun is shining through layers of green. I didnt have to do anything for this. Just be quiet and look and listen.

Ok, yes, it's given.
Were you in the given, or were you the given too?
Drop any idea of being separate from what is given.

If you popped a budding rose in a glass of water.
And visited it each day to see the rose.
Which rose is the rose?
Each day, the rose is anew. Maybe a new petal, different hue.
Is there a frozen rose?
Feel into the anewness of the rose.

My minds says, its just semantics. Bc its the rose i put into the glass. Nobody exchanged it for a different one.
But i understand your perspective.
Like me being different from yesterday… new cells, new microbiome inside and on my skin, different air in my lungs. All without me doing anything conciously.
But still we are only talking about the body of the rose or my body.

Not semantics. And not the material.

Imagine the possibility that everything you had ever known about yourself was wrong.
Everything.
So, in sitting here, you have nothing to refer to, but what is. No time.

Somebody said recently to me that i didnt change much since i was a teenager. And it was not meant as a compliment. That hurt a lot.

I already told you about the monster-dream in the house.

I sometimes had dreams lying i bed and not being able to move and people came in and i was afraid.

Yesterday i dreamt about driving in a car. I was on a parking lot and wanted to leave but the car was not doing what i wanted. In the end the car drove backwards over a kind of cliff and i felt falling and i knew i would die but it was the first time i was ok with it. I was courious what would happen.

Here's one interpretation. You have held onto your world view for so long, it is parked. The world view is not dancing to your tune, and in the end, drops away whether you like it or not.

So, continue to loosen any hold on how it should be, or how you want to be.
More and more open to how it is, whether you like it or not. :)

It might be a story i am telling myself but i think there is less fear of loosing the story of Anne.

Good!

Warm wishes,
John
"The more he looked inside, the more Piglet wasn't there." - A.A.Milne

Author, The Faun's Apprentice - see on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fauns-Apprenti ... B01AR2B63U


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