Thread for Funky Buddha & Forgetmenot

[Funkybuddha]

Morning Kay,
Okay, so let’s have a look at this fear/anxiety

1) Look at the label/thought ‘fear’ itself. See the label/word ‘fear’ as a typewritten word in the ‘mind’s eye’ across the forehead

Does the label ‘fear’ know anything about ‘fear’, or is the word just a bunch of letters?
Is the label ‘fear’ itself anxious?
Can you find anyone/anything in the word itself that is fearful/anxious?

2) Then look at the sensation and ignore everything else but the sensation itself.
Inquire into the sensation and ask if the sensation itself knows anything about ‘fear’.

And then look to see if there is anyone/anything in the sensation or behind the sensation that can be ‘fearful/anxious’.

3) Look at the image/colour labelled body, whether that image be ‘mental’ or ‘visual’.

Inquire into the colour and ask if the colour itself knows anything about ‘fear’.
And then look to see if there is anyone/anything in the colour that knows anything about ‘fear’ or that can be ‘fearful/anxious’.

When you have inquired into these and if no one/no thing is found, then just sit with the sensation. Just breathe normally, notice the thoughts and images that appear and ask if they are ‘fear’ itself or know anything about fear, and let them pass on by, and just allow the sensation all the room it needs in the body without pushing it aside or judging it. If it becomes too intense just take a couple of deep breaths into the sensation itself, and then notice the floor under your feet, notice your backside on the chair and then notice what is in the room you are sitting in and name them out loud, while being aware of the sensation and remember to breathe normally. If the sensation does not dissipate completely, that is okay, just notice it, without doing anything with it and just go about your day.

Let me know how you go.

(1) The label 'Fear' knows nothing about the sensation, it is a label pointing to the sensation. No label can be anxious and there is no one or thing in the label that can feel anxious.

(2) A memory of a fearful/stuttering event was recalled to re experience the sensation labelled fear. The sensation knows nothing of the label 'fear'. it is just a feeling. There is no-one in or behind the sensation that is fearful, it is just a feeling.

(3) The colour/body knows nothing of 'fear', it is just a colour, how could it ? There is no one in the colour that knows anything about fear, or who can be fearful.
When the feelings are asked if they know anything about the fear nothing happens. The feeling just carries on as a sensation being experienced. Then when the objects in the room are named the feeling dissipates.

And what is the AE of movement?

The AE of movement is sensation & colour. Example, hand turning up & down over & over is observed as colour. Pink hand (thought) changing to white wall (thought) and felt (sensation) in the arm (thought)

Hope this helps
Love Mark

[forgetmenot]

Hey Mark,

If you need a couple of days to do the exercises, take those days, because I would like you to do the exercises thoroughly.

(1) The label 'Fear' knows nothing about the sensation, it is a label pointing to the sensation. No label can be anxious and there is no one or thing in the label that can feel anxious.

For every thought that comes up, and to determine whether it is referring to actual experience or whether it is pure fantasy, replace the thought with “blahblahblah” and check whether what it was referring to remains. Let me know what you notice.

(2) A memory of a fearful/stuttering event was recalled to re experience the sensation labelled fear. The sensation knows nothing of the label 'fear'. it is just a feeling. There is no-one in or behind the sensation that is fearful, it is just a feeling.

Put aside 10 minutes and sit with your eyes closed, and think of the story of stuttering the seemingly brings up the sensation in the body. Then I want you to LOOK very very carefully with your eyes still closed to see if you can find/see an actual link between the thought and the sensation. If the sensation starts to dissipate, then bring the story back to mind again and keep on looking to see if you can see/find a link. Do this exercise at least 3 or 4 times in the one day.
Let me know what you find.

And what is the AE of movement?

The AE of movement is sensation & colour. Example, hand turning up & down over & over is observed as colour. Pink hand (thought) changing to white wall (thought) and felt (sensation) in the arm (thought)

The AE of movement is simply, sensation.
Next time you go for a walk. Focus on the movement of the legs and arms and just notice what is actually appearing.

Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?
Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all? Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?
Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?

Love, Kay

[Funkybuddha]

Hi Kay,

For every thought that comes up, and to determine whether it is referring to actual experience or whether it is pure fantasy, replace the thought with “blahblahblah” and check whether what it was referring to remains. Let me know what you notice.

I have been observing thoughts the last couple of days an the thoughts that appear as stories of this an that create sensations/feelings. For example, there are thoughts of confrontations that create feelings that thought labels 'Anxiety' 'Fear' etc when the thoughts are replaced with 'blah blah blah' the sensation disappears and I have to re-think the same story to attempt to bring the feeling back. What has been noticed to is when there is an attempt to get the feeling/sensation back it rarely comes back. The feelings are triggered by stories/movies of this an that, but all are fantasy.

Put aside 10 minutes and sit with your eyes closed, and think of the story of stuttering the seemingly brings up the sensation in the body. Then I want you to LOOK very very carefully with your eyes still closed to see if you can find/see an actual link between the thought and the sensation. If the sensation starts to dissipate, then bring the story back to mind again and keep on looking to see if you can see/find a link. Do this exercise at least 3 or 4 times in the one day.
Let me know what you find.

Ok I need to be clear on this, when I am recalling a memory of a stuttering moment it is virtually impossible to re-experience any feeling/sensation at all. However when I am doing my daily whatever, like in work or in the gym or just day to day stuff, like I'm not aware of what I'm doing an a thought/memory comes up of stuttering then there is a instantaneous feeling/sensation, it's difficult to describe it clearly, like a dense feeling in the chest. What I have become aware of though is that it's thoughts that are creating these feelings/sensations and they are stories of the past or of what might happen etc the body is responding/feeling to what the thought is thinking and it's not what is happening in AE. But if I do stutter in work say then there is a instant stronger felt sensation that arises in the chest area than when say I imagine stuttering, but both scenarios create a feeling. So there is a link between what I'm imagining (thinking) and what I'm feeling/sensation. I just like to say I struggled with this.

Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?

No, there isn't. There is sensation and a story "i'm walking up the stairs etc but in AE there is just sensation that thought labels 'feet and legs walking'.

Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all? Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?

There is only thoughts about a body walking

Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?

No walking cannot be found as walking is a story

Hope this helps
Love Mark

[forgetmenot]

Hey Mark,

For every thought that comes up, and to determine whether it is referring to actual experience or whether it is pure fantasy, replace the thought with “blahblahblah” and check whether what it was referring to remains. Let me know what you notice.

I have been observing thoughts the last couple of days an the thoughts that appear as stories of this an that create sensations/feelings. For example, there are thoughts of confrontations that create feelings that thought labels 'Anxiety' 'Fear' etc when the thoughts are replaced with 'blah blah blah' the sensation disappears and I have to re-think the same story to attempt to bring the feeling back. What has been noticed to is when there is an attempt to get the feeling/sensation back it rarely comes back. The feelings are triggered by stories/movies of this an that, but all are fantasy.

Okay, let’s try this another way first. I want you to sit quietly and listen for a sound. Now thought may appear and say that the sound is the sound of traffic. So replace the thought “sound of traffic” with blahblahblah. Does the sound of traffic disappear when you replaced the thought with blahblahblah?

Put aside 10 minutes and sit with your eyes closed, and think of the story of stuttering the seemingly brings up the sensation in the body. Then I want you to LOOK very very carefully with your eyes still closed to see if you can find/see an actual link between the thought and the sensation. If the sensation starts to dissipate, then bring the story back to mind again and keep on looking to see if you can see/find a link. Do this exercise at least 3 or 4 times in the one day.
Let me know what you find.

So there is a link between what I'm imagining (thinking) and what I'm feeling/sensation. I just like to say I struggled with this.

And what does this link look like? Describe it to me in precise detail and where this link is located, and explain exactly how it links the thought with the sensation?

Love, Kay

[Funkybuddha]

Hi Kay,
Hope your well :)

Okay, let’s try this another way first. I want you to sit quietly and listen for a sound. Now thought may appear and say that the sound is the sound of traffic. So replace the thought “sound of traffic” with blahblahblah. Does the sound of traffic disappear when you replaced the thought with blahblahblah?

I sat an listened to my Oven, thought said 'Thats the sound of the Hob' 'The sound of the oven' etc When I changed the thoughts to 'blah blah blah' the sound remained just a sound. It was still the same an never disappeared.

And what does this link look like? Describe it to me in precise detail and where this link is located, and explain exactly how it links the thought with the sensation?

I can't find a link, or a location. Could it be that thoughts just commentate on the sensation.

Hope this helps
Love M

[forgetmenot]

Hey Mark,

Okay, let’s try this another way first. I want you to sit quietly and listen for a sound. Now thought may appear and say that the sound is the sound of traffic. So replace the thought “sound of traffic” with blahblahblah. Does the sound of traffic disappear when you replaced the thought with blahblahblah?

I sat an listened to my Oven, thought said 'Thats the sound of the Hob' 'The sound of the oven' etc When I changed the thoughts to 'blah blah blah' the sound remained just a sound. It was still the same an never disappeared.

Great, so you can see that AE was sound and not the AE of a hob?

So now I would like you to do that with a thought that seems to create an intense sensation in the body. Replace the thought with blahblahblah and watch very carefully. What happens?

And what does this link look like? Describe it to me in precise detail and where this link is located, and explain exactly how it links the thought with the sensation?

I can't find a link, or a location. Could it be that thoughts just commentate on the sensation.

This is what I want you to LOOK for and see if it is just another thought that says they are linked or if you can find an ACTUAL link.

So I would like you to do this exercise again for the duration of a day…sitting at least 3 time for 10-15 minutes and see if you can actually see/find an ACTUAL link between the thought you are using and the sensation.
Let me know what you find.

If you are finding this exercise frustrating/irritating, and you can feel the sensation labelled frustrated or irritated in the body, then you can use a sentence like “This exercise is dumb and I don’t know what I am looking for” or something along those lines! And then LOOK very carefully as you are saying the sentence to see if you can find an actual link between saying the sentence (thought) and the appearing sensation.

Love, Kay

[Funkybuddha]

Hi Kay,
Thankyou for your time today :)

Great, so you can see that AE was sound and not the AE of a hob?

There being a 'Hob' is a story, a thought !! All there was, was sound.

So now I would like you to do that with a thought that seems to create an intense sensation in the body. Replace the thought with blahblahblah and watch very carefully. What happens?

Nothing changes the experience of the sensation. The story arising in thought, 'this is tingling, this is warm' etc when replaced by 'blahblahblah' still leaves the sensation as just a sensation.

So I would like you to do this exercise again for the duration of a day…sitting at least 3 time for 10-15 minutes and see if you can actually see/find an ACTUAL link between the thought you are using and the sensation.
Let me know what you find.

When experiencing sensations thoughts arise in awareness that narrate the feeling but they do that with all experience. So I could not establish a link between thought and the current sensation.

Hope this helps
Love Mark

[forgetmenot]

Hey Mark,

So I would like you to do this exercise again for the duration of a day…sitting at least 3 time for 10-15 minutes and see if you can actually see/find an ACTUAL link between the thought you are using and the sensation.
Let me know what you find.

When experiencing sensations thoughts arise in awareness that narrate the feeling but they do that with all experience. So I could not establish a link between thought and the current sensation.

Lovely, it is only another thought that says the thought and the sensation go hand in hand.

This might be a good time to have a look at the following as it is somewhat similar.

Normally we believe that sensation is coming from sight - the object seen.

1. Close the eyes and hold up one of the hands. Pay attention only to the felt sensations ‘of the hand’.
2. Open the eyes, and now observe the hand by looking only.
3. While looking at the hand, pay attention to the felt sensations.
Repeat 1 to 3 as many times as needed and investigate…

Is there any link between the sensation and the sight (hand), meaning that the sensation is ‘coming from’ the sight (labelled as hand) or only thoughts and mental constructs link them?

Can you see that both the ‘visual sight’ and the sensation appear simultaneously but ‘separately’, meaning that none of them is coming from the other or contained by the other?

So they just appear equally, ‘beside’ each other without any hierarchy or link between them?

You can repeat this with all of body parts below, one-by-one. Spend some time on each of them:

- feet
- legs
- arms
- belly
- chest
- head (looking into the mirror)

Let me know how you go and what you notice.

Love, Kay

[Funkybuddha]

Hi Kay,

Is there any link between the sensation and the sight (hand), meaning that the sensation is ‘coming from’ the sight (labelled as hand) or only thoughts and mental constructs link them?
No, sensation is there whether seeing happens or not.

Can you see that both the ‘visual sight’ and the sensation appear simultaneously but ‘separately’, meaning that none of them is coming from the other or contained by the other?

Yes both arise separately and are independent actual experiences regardless of the other.

So they just appear equally, ‘beside’ each other without any hierarchy or link between them?

Yes they do, each is 'known' an one is not experienced more than the other.

Let me know how you go and what you notice.

With each body part the same outcome was experienced, no link between the sensation and the seeing, both arising simultaneously & independant of the other.

Hope this helps
Love Mark

[forgetmenot]

Hey Mark,

I wanted to address the following so that it is clear as I feel I have not pointed to this succinctly.

So now I would like you to do that with a thought that seems to create an intense sensation in the body. Replace the thought with blahblahblah and watch very carefully. What happens?

Nothing changes the experience of the sensation. The story arising in thought, 'this is tingling, this is warm' etc when replaced by 'blahblahblah' still leaves the sensation as just a sensation

Yes, replacing the thought doesn’t change the AE, it just shows you what is actually happening as opposed to what thought says is happening.

Let’s say, for example, thinking about not wanting to go to work appear, and up pops a thought saying, “if I don’t continue to work, I will have no money and I will become homeless”, and with that thought the sensation labelled ‘fear’ appears. If you replace that thought with “blahblahblah”, what is the actual experience?

Is that thought pointing to actual experience, or is pointing to a thought story about a ‘me’ becoming homeless (ie imagination)? What is the actual experience?

Or, another example, a thought appears saying “I hear a bird singing”. If you replace that thought with “blahblahblah”, what is the actual experience? If there is no actual ‘bird song’ appearing then the thought is pointing to fantasy. If there is ‘bird song’ heard, then the thought is pointing to AE of sound labelled as ‘bird singing’.

Is there any link between the sensation and the sight (hand), meaning that the sensation is ‘coming from’ the sight (labelled as hand) or only thoughts and mental constructs link them?

No, sensation is there whether seeing happens or not.

Yes, exactly. With eyes closed there is sensation, with an appearing thought saying ‘hand’ and a mental image of a hand. With eyes open there is colour and thought labelling it as hand and sensation. When eyes are open and closed if thought and images are ignored, there is simply the AE of sensation. If sensation was actually coming from the hand then would there be sensation felt when eyes were closed?

Here is an interesting video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dphlhmt ... e=youtu.be

Let me know how you go and what you notice.

With each body part the same outcome was experienced, no link between the sensation and the seeing, both arising simultaneously & independant of the other.

When seeing this, how did you feel?

Love, Kay

[Funkybuddha]

Hi Kay,

Let’s say, for example, thinking about not wanting to go to work appear, and up pops a thought saying, “if I don’t continue to work, I will have no money and I will become homeless”, and with that thought the sensation labelled ‘fear’ appears. If you replace that thought with “blahblahblah”, what is the actual experience?

The actual experience would be sensation, and as already seen this is independent of thought. Thought labelled the sensation 'Fear' an then 'Blah blah blah' which had no effect on the sensation.

Is that thought pointing to actual experience, or is pointing to a thought story about a ‘me’ becoming homeless (ie imagination)? What is the actual experience?

Yes, thought is pointing to the AE of sensation and labelling it fear.

Yes, exactly. With eyes closed there is sensation, with an appearing thought saying ‘hand’ and a mental image of a hand. With eyes open there is colour and thought labelling it as hand and sensation. When eyes are open and closed if thought and images are ignored, there is simply the AE of sensation. If sensation was actually coming from the hand then would there be sensation felt when eyes were closed?

Sensation is felt whether eyes are open or closed, however when open thought says the sensation is coming from a 'hand' when in AE all is there is seeing/colour

When seeing this, how did you feel?[/quote
I feel a bit unsure of this, seeing this is not clear for me. When I close my eyed again (After clapping my hands) it feels like the sensation is only coming from the area that my hand/colour was, now if my hand is a thought/story then how can that be ?

Hope this helps
Love Mark

[forgetmenot]

Hi Mark,

Is there any link between the sensation and the sight (hand), meaning that the sensation is ‘coming from’ the sight (labelled as hand) or only thoughts and mental constructs link them?
Let me know how you go and what you notice.

With each body part the same outcome was experienced, no link between the sensation and the seeing, both arising simultaneously & independant of the other.

When seeing this, how did you feel?

I feel a bit unsure of this, seeing this is not clear for me. When I close my eyed again (After clapping my hands) it feels like the sensation is only coming from the area that my hand/colour was, now if my hand is a thought/story then how can that be?

Clapping your hands with eyes closed there is sensation, with an appearing thought saying ‘clapping hands made this sensation’ and a mental image of a hands/hands clapping. With eyes open there is colour and thought labelling it as hands clapping and sensation labelled ‘hands moving’.

When eyes are open or closed, when thoughts and images are ignored of/about ‘hands clapping’, there is simply the AE of sensation…right? It is only thought that says that colour is hands and that the sound ‘clapping’ comes from the hands and that the sensation is coming from the clapping hands.

Does colour or sound know how to clap or know anything about hands or clapping? Does the sensation itself suggest it any way that it is hands clapping or knows anything about hands or clapping?
Does thought know anything about hands clapping? So is ‘hands clapping’ known or only thoughts ABOUT hand clapping are known?

If sensation was actually coming from the hand then would there be sensation felt when eyes were closed?

How would it be known, when eyes are closed and all thoughts and images are ignored that it was clapping hands that created the sensation?

Close your eyes and focus on where thought says your foot is.
How is it known that the sensation is a foot?
Does the sensation itself suggest in any way that it is a foot?

Now swing the foot around. Does the sensation itself suggest in anyway that it is a foot that is moving?
Does the sensation itself suggest in any way that it is movement?


Love, Kay

[Funkybuddha]

Hi Kay,

Does colour or sound know how to clap or know anything about hands or clapping? Does the sensation itself suggest it any way that it is hands clapping or knows anything about hands or clapping?

No colour or sound no nothing about hands clapping, they are arising experience which are known. It is thought that says they are hands and they are clapping.

Does thought know anything about hands clapping? So is ‘hands clapping’ known or only thoughts ABOUT hand clapping are known?

Thought knows nothing about 'hands clapping' as thought said the sensation WAS hands clapping when all there was was sensation and thoughts saying the sensation was caused by hands clapping.

If sensation was actually coming from the hand then would there be sensation felt when eyes were closed?

It has been seen now when doing this again that if the sensation was arising from the colour/hand, then when eyes were closed it should disappear which is not the case, so the belief the sensation arises in the hand is a thought/story. It was thought that said the sensation was arising in the location of where the hands/colour where, there is no location, this is another story.

How would it be known, when eyes are closed and all thoughts and images are ignored that it was clapping hands that created the sensation?

It would not be known, there is only sensation. The clapping of the hands is a story.

Close your eyes and focus on where thought says your foot is.
How is it known that the sensation is a foot?

There is a tingling in my foot, which is thought, also a foot is thought. When the thoughts are ignored there is no foot, only arising sensation which I am the knowing of.

Does the sensation itself suggest in any way that it is a foot?

No it doesn't !! How could it ? A sensation is just a feeling, it doesn't think (create a story).

Now swing the foot around. Does the sensation itself suggest in anyway that it is a foot that is moving?

Again no it doesn't, it's a sensation that thought says is a foot that is moving.

Does the sensation itself suggest in any way that it is movement?

No, the sensation can't suggest anything. It is just a sensation, The apparent 'Movement' of a foot is all a story created by thought. I am the knowing of the thought, but it doesn't make them real.

Hope this helps
Love Mark

[forgetmenot]

Hi Mark,

So it is now clearer that there is no correlation between sight and sensation?

So we have looked at control and decision making by doing the palm exercise. Let's have another look at choice and decision making.

The aim of the following exercise is to discover whether the function of choice can really be found or confirmed in actual experience. The idea of making ‘choices‘ is a very clear example of a function that we wrongly identify as the basis of our identity.

Here's what’s needed - A chair, a table and two different drinks. Any two drinks you like are okay for this: coffee, tea, milk, water, juices, smoothies, beer, wine, etc.

Preparation - Place the two drinks side by side on the table in front of you, sit comfortably on the chair and mentally label them as drink A and drink B.

Experiment - Finding the function of choice

Sit for a few moments, take a few relaxed breaths and let the dust settle. When you feel ready:

1. Look at drink A and at drink B. Think about their respective qualities, the things you like about them, compare and weigh the pros and cons of each. See if a preference is manifesting for one or the other.
2. Count to 5.
3. Choose one of the drinks. Pick it up and take a sip.

Questions:
Remember that we’re looking for some kind of function, a something, an ‘I’ which is doing the ‘choosing’.

In step 1 when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities? Or did they kind of appear by themselves? If some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’ these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves?

In step 2 when you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event? Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting? Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Have you seen this function in action?

In step 3 where you made a choice, did you actually witness or directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Did anything arise that announced, ‘I am the chooser’? If so, what does this function look like?

Sometimes we describe this sense of choosing as a ‘feeling’: It feels like ‘I’ did the ‘choosing’. But the question is, can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to ‘choose’?

Love, Kay

[Funkybuddha]

Hi Kay,

In step 1 when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities? Or did they kind of appear by themselves? If some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’ these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves?

I had 2 glasses of water, one half full labelled A the other near full labelled B. 'A' appeared clearer, more attractive, no chooser for the preference of A was found, it just appeared.

In step 2 when you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event? Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting? Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Have you seen this function in action?

Before counting, there was a weighing up of the most favourable, 'A' was deemed the better choice as it was clearer. When counting began the weighing up for the most favourable stopped. A chooser of shutting down the preferences could not be found, the counting began as a flow after the preferring stopped. There was no faculty doing the choosing found. It was always assumed that 'I' was deciding which one was the best option, but there was no 'I' found to make the choice. No I haven't seen this function before, It was always thought I made conscious choices to do certain tasks, like getting in my car of a morning, putting the seat belt on, starting the engine, driving off etc

In step 3 where you made a choice, did you actually witness or directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Did anything arise that announced, ‘I am the chooser’? If so, what does this function look like?

No, there was nothing witnessed that did the 'choosing' !! A flow from deliberating the qualities to counting to choosing was all one movement.

Sometimes we describe this sense of choosing as a ‘feeling’: It feels like ‘I’ did the ‘choosing’. But the question is, can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to ‘choose’?

There was a feeling that arose when looking to see which glass was the most preferable, which I assumed was the chooser, but now looking how could it be ? It's just a sensation arising, with no inherent choosing capabilities. It looks like everything that happens is a seamless flow, carried out by no one, only witnessed as experience.

Hope this helps
Love Mark