To be or not to be

[gondwana]

Great!

Then let us leave expectations and prior “already knowns” behind, and take a fresh look again.

When inquiry is applied there is no doubt an i is not to be found except when thought arises and blurs reality.

“Except when thought arises”......Is the ‘I’ real at all?
Has it ever been real at any point?
Has it ever existed?

[gondwana]

Hi Katie, how are you getting on?

[Katiebrown54]

Hi Tim

It’s been days since our last conversation. Has it ended?
Thank you

[Katiebrown54]

Hi Tim

Just saw your reply on the 24th?
It appears you didn’t receive my last response to your questions either? The process was seemingly moving so slow and sought out the utube instead. Sorry. The direct experience of some of the exercises has been fleeting.

[gondwana]

Hi Katie,

Just saw your reply on the 24th?
It appears you didn’t receive my last response to your questions either?

Yes I was waiting for you to reply and sent a gentle reminder on the 24th. It seems maybe your post did not work.

I usually refresh the page and & check after hitting Send, just to make sure my post actually appears, as sometimes these things happen.

The process was seemingly moving so slow and sought out the utube instead. Sorry. The direct experience of some of the exercises has been fleeting.

My observation here - and I say this purely from a place of kindness, attempting to help. Is that several times now, you have tried to “control” the looking process. By asking it to speed up, or change direction, instead of allowing it to unfold naturally.

This is another example of how selfing manifests - the need to control.

So the opportunity is here again to see in this very moment:

IS THERE a one to control anything, at all?
IS THERE a doer, an agent, even in control?
IS THERE a one who can progress “fast” or “slow”?
IS THERE a one who can progress?
If “I”, “Katie” does not exist and is ONLY a thought (as you report already seeing) — then HOW CAN a thought control the looking process?

[Katiebrown54]

In answer to the previous email There is no person doing or controlling or moving slowly. All is thought driven... without such thoughts these feelings wouldn’t have arisen. Thoughts feelings and sensations do nevertheless arise in the body, but they are without an identity.

[gondwana]

CAN only a thought control this looking process?

[Katiebrown54]

Hi Tim


If the thought “‘ I’ want to look” arises, then the looking process is thought directed.
If on the other hand “looking process” means awareness, then this does not require thought for it to occur since it is not mind based?

[gondwana]

I am not pointing at awareness here, forget about that for now.

It seems the problem here is the holding onto of a belief in control:

If the thought “‘ I’ want to look” arises, then the looking process is thought directed.

This is not how it works. Thought cannot direct anything. Thought cannot DO anything. There is no such thing as “thought directed”. This is all part the illusion Katie!

So, let us try this. I know we have tried exercises like this before, but it seems some belief remains. Probably you reported what you BELIEVED to be the answer from teachings, and did not actually experience it for yourself. So please be patient and try it again:

Sit still, and lift a hand into the air.
Watch the movement happen.
Watch the thoughts around it.

How did the choice of left or right hand get chosen?
How did the signal to move the hand arise?
Did a thought to move arise BEFORE or AFTER the actual movement?

Keep lifting the hand again and again. Up, and down.
Watch carefully.
Keep watching.
Just keep doing this and watching for at least a few minutes, until you can answer with 100% certainty how the control process is happening!

Now report back your description of exactly HOW the control process works.

...

Please answer every question/point above.
Answer all questions/points individually.

Rushing through this is the source of the problem.

[Katiebrown54]

Ok Tim thanks for your perseverance.


“Sit still, and lift a hand into the air.
Watch the movement happen.
Watch the thoughts around it.

How did the choice of left or right hand get chosen?
How did the signal to move the hand arise?
Did a thought to move arise BEFORE or AFTER the actual movement?”

Choice for which arm was raised did not occur . Right arm went up without a thinking or choice being made.

The signal to move the hand happened without thought - when the hand went up thought appeared.

The thought arrived after movement rather than the other way around.

How the control process works
1. There was the belief that the “control” process namely the thinking, instructed the body to move -
2. with this belief was an underlying assumption there was an identity there doing this
controlling
3. Since movement came before thought and since there is no identity to control the movement neither thinking nor an entity is the explanation for what happened to the arm. The arm simply raised.

[gondwana]

Very good!

How does it feel to see this?
What’s going on right now?

[Katiebrown54]

Momentarily it was a relief to see this. Also ‘mind boggling” to realise thought is not what comes first in this play. This was a obeginning of direct seeing of the no self. It was a helpful exercise this time around - a shift was definitely experienced. Thank you for persisting.

[gondwana]

Amazing!! :)

How does it feel to be nobody?
How does it feel to have no story?
How does it feel to have no name?

[Katiebrown54]

Feelings of relief - of no body no name and no story!
With Nobody and no story, suffering has nothing to hang it’s hat on.

[gondwana]

Exactly! Beautiful :)

No more difficult questions now. I’m sorry I pushed you so hard, I did what was needed.

Just relax and enjoy the show! Simply observe things as they unfold for a while.

You can write to me as often as you like, with new insights and observations as they come up. Share with me as much as you can during this time.