I'd like a guide to help make sure I'm through

[Love4a11]

Hi Kay,

Your last response I think really got through to me. I have been thinking about it all day off and on. I am going out of town for a week and I will be back on January 1st. I will be very busy on a road trip to see family and I will be busy with family for that time. I hope that it's okay that I be out of touch for that time. I will definitely keep this topic top of mind while I am gone and I'll send you a response message on January 1st.

I am starting to see that I cannot expect my thoughts to change, like you said, only my perception pf my experience will.

Thank you so much Kay! I hope you have a wonderful holiday!

Love,
Merri

[forgetmenot]

Hello Merri,

Just begin to observe thoughts. Watch them come and go like clouds in the sky. Notice what they are 'saying' but try not to follow them down the rabbit hole.

Have a lovely Christmas with your family.

Love, Kay

[Love4a11]

Hi Kay,

I will do as you instructed. Perfect advice. Have a wonderful holiday as well!

Love,
Merri

[Love4a11]

Hi Kay,

I hope that you had a great holiday! I am back. While I was gone I watched my thoughts come and go. I saw that there is no “I” having these thoughts. The thoughts are happening. Just habitual thinking that “I” exist and that “I” am thinking.

What exactly is it that is thinking these thoughts, and what exactly is it that is following these "feeling" thoughts? What is it exactly that is 'tuned in' and using intuition?

There is no I.

Where is this "I" that is "changing and dropping the story"? Describe this "I" to me and tell me where it is located.

There is no I, just the familiar story of an “I” with thoughts, feelings, and perceptions.

If thoughts say, "I can change what I'm aware of by closing my eyes", and suddenly eyes seem to close, and you are aware of only colour black.
Did you REALLY have any choice about being aware of all of that?

No, I have just had the habit of thinking there is choice in my experience.

Did you have any choice about being aware of the thoughts, or the apparent closing of eyes, or the colour black?

No, that is the experience of closing the eyes.

Could you have chosen not to have thoughts about closing eyes?

No, thoughts come always.

Could you have chosen for the colour to be green instead?

No it is a physical sensory experience that you cannot choose.

If you can't choose what you're aware of, then what else is there to choose?

Awareness just is. There is nothing to choose. It is all just happening.

I feel that I am there Kay. I understand that the thoughts are still going to keep coming. That the feelings about an “I” will still be experienced and can be observed. That there will be the same human experiences because nothing has changed. Some of the thoughts and feelings that are arising are of slight grief, confusion, and relief. I definitely feel that this is the beginning.

Thank you so very much for your assistance!

Love,
Merri

[forgetmenot]

Hello Merri,

Glad to see you back. Yes, I had a lovely break. Nice and peaceful :)

I loved your responses to the questions and that you have seen how thoughts work. Once seeing how the nature of thought works, most all stories are seen through quite quickly. However, our exploration has not finished. We have yet to explore the idea of the body, time, memory and subject/object split. This way you have covered all the bases where the idea of a separate self can 'hide', so to speak.

So, you have seen that there is no one who is controlling, deciding, choosing, thinking or doing...that everything is just happening and that there is no one/no thing that is responsible for anything, be it 'past' or 'future'.

How does that make your feel?

Here is an interesting exercise on the body.

Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes.
Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:

Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume?

In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?
Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside, the outside of what exactly?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

Look very carefully, especially with the last question. Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, etc.) before replying.


Love, Kay

[Love4a11]

Hi Kay,

I'm glad to hear that you had a restful break! Thank you for this new inquiry. I will ponder your questions. I am busy getting back into being home and working again so I hope it is okay that I respond on Thursday. Tomorrow is a busy day.

Love and gratitude,
Merri

[forgetmenot]

Hey Merri....look forward to hearing from you then.

Love, Kay

[Love4a11]

Hi Kay,

Here are my observations.

How does that make your feel?

There are many feelings arising. I feel some confusion and sadness. There is no understanding for the how or why things happen or why we are raised to think of ourselves as separate. I also feel a relief as if it all has a grand majestic design that I cannot know or understand. Then there’s the strong habit and internal wanting rearing its head for me to think of a self that is me that has agency and is “doing” things. There are also feelings of the beauty of the realization of the true interconnectedness of all beings. But quickly comes forward then is a feeling of meaninglessness, wondering what the point is of all of this if it’s all just happening with only an illusion of choice? It feels like I have been raised to play a game that I finally felt like I was starting to understand to only find out that the game I was playing was just playing itself and I was only imagining my active participation. Then comes the confusion again.

Can it be known how tall the body is?

No there is no sensation of the whole body.

Does the body have a weight or volume?

No I did not perceive a weight to the body.

In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

No there was not a shape experienced of the body.

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?

That was interesting! No there is not a feeling of differentiation except for the sensation of the weight of the clothing.

Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

No there does not seem to be a boundary between the body and chair.

Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - inside of what exactly?

No there is no inside or outside feeling, just awareness.

If there is an outside, the outside of what exactly?

I'm not really feeling a differentiation.

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?

Body refers to what I used to consider “my body”. But in observation with eyes closed. Body disappears, only a bit of sensation is there.

What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

Especially after the closed eye experiment, I noticed that the actual experience of the body is actually not much. There are some physical sensations but surprisingly there is not even that much sensation observed. A lot of the sensations that I thought were physical seem to be more mental perceptions and interpretations of small sensations. The actual experience I have of the body is as a vehicle to move about and do things, that works mostly from habitual movements and reactions to my thoughts. My beingness goes where the body goes.

Thanks Kay!

Love,
Merri

[forgetmenot]

Hi Merri,

How does that make your feel?

There are many feelings arising. I feel some confusion and sadness. There is no understanding for the how or why things happen or why we are raised to think of ourselves as separate.

Thank you for sharing what is going on with you. So let’s have a LOOK at it!

Grief, anger, confusion etc will appear. Everything that you thought was….isn’t, however have you looked to see if you can find anyone who is actually experiencing grief, anger, confusion or meaninglessness?

If you LOOK - what is the AE of confusion?
The label ‘confusion’ is AE of thought and not AE of confusion
The sensation labelled ‘confusion’ is AE of sensation and not AE of confusion
The image labelled ‘me/body/I’ is AE of colour and not AE of a person confused
The thoughts ABOUT confusion are AE of thought and not AE of confusion

So what is actually appearing/known is label + sensation + colour + thoughts, but confusion is not known.
Can you see this?

You can replace the word ‘confusion’, with ‘sadness’ and see what the AE of sadness is.

But quickly comes forward then is a feeling of meaninglessness, wondering what the point is of all of this if it’s all just happening with only an illusion of choice?

What is the AE of “meaninglessness”? It is simply the AE of thought appearing.
Are you the author of thought? Are you in control of what thoughts appear?

If thoughts were expressed via the tweeting of birds or an unknown language, how would you know what they meant? What meaning is given to thoughts are only just thoughts about thoughts. A thought is much like a piece of graffiti scribbled on a wall. Graffiti doesn't know the wall exists. It doesn't know it is appearing on the wall. It doesn't know whether its words are true or not. It doesn't know that it is saying anything. It doesn't know anything *whatsoever*. Similarly, a thought is just a bit of decoration appearing in THIS. It appears. You are aware of it. But it knows nothing whatsoever about reality. And that is all there is to thought

You did the choice exercises. Is there anyone/anything that is making a choice, or deciding what to choose?

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?

That was interesting! No there is not a feeling of differentiation except for the sensation of the weight of the clothing.

Yes, so it is simply sensation, which thought describes as “weight of clothing”!
Does the sensation suggest in any way that it is “weight of clothing”?

Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

No there does not seem to be a boundary between the body and chair.

Doesn't SEEM to be, isn't LOOKING and letting me know from LOOKING.
There either is or is not a boundary between the body and chair. Please LOOK carefully, and let me know what you find.

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?

Body refers to what I used to consider “my body”. But in observation with eyes closed. Body disappears, only a bit of sensation is there.

The WORD/LABEL ‘body’ actually refers to thought and not the AE of a body.

What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

Especially after the closed eye experiment, I noticed that the actual experience of the body is actually not much. There are some physical sensations but surprisingly there is not even that much sensation observed.

The ACTUAL experience of the body is thought. There is no actual experience of a body

The label ‘body’ is AE of thought and not AE of a body
The sensations labelled as ‘body’ are AE of sensation and not AE of a body
The image labelled ‘body’ is AE of colour and not the AE of a body.
The thoughts ABOUT a ‘body’ are AE of thought and not the AE of a body

So what is actually appearing is label + sensation + colour + thoughts ABOUT a body, but can a body be found in AE?

The actual experience I have of the body is as a vehicle to move about and do things, that works mostly from habitual movements and reactions to my thoughts. My beingness goes where the body goes.

Really? LOOK again! Where is this “I” that has the actual experience of a body as a vehicle? Describe this “I” to me in precise details and describe to me where it is located.

Thought says that the foot is ‘down there’. So presumably you are above your foot. Where are you? Sit quietly, close your eyes, take a few breaths and locate where you feel yourself to be. Locate yourself vertically in the body, horizontally to the left or right, and depth, how far in. Feel how big you are, where you reside.
Then point with a finger to ‘you’. Open your eyes, where is your finger pointing?


Love, Kay

[Love4a11]

Hi Kay,

I have been looking at my actual experiences of my body today but am too busy to write about it. I will write you back tomorrow.

Thank you!

Love,
Merri

[forgetmenot]

Hi Merri,

Great....and thanks for letting me know. Just remember the responses you gave for the questions to the original exercise.

Can it be known how tall the body is?

No there is no sensation of the whole body.

Does the body have a weight or volume?

No I did not perceive a weight to the body.

In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

No there was not a shape experienced of the body.

If none of these things are known then where exactly is the body to be found? Without thought describing a body and the body is AE of thought, can a body be found in AE?

Love, Kay

[Love4a11]

Hi Kay,

I have been observing that there is no body actual experience. I'm sorry I did not have time to write tonight more. I will write tomorrow.

Thanks,
Love,
Merri

[Love4a11]

Hi Kay,
Sorry it is so late but I want to respond. I want you to know that just because my responses have been late has not meant that I haven't focused on your assignments. They have been very much on my mind.

So what is actually appearing/known is label + sensation + colour + thoughts, but confusion is not known.
Can you see this?

Yes, I can see that how feelings are labels for thoughts and sensations.

What is the AE of “meaninglessness”? It is simply the AE of thought appearing.
Are you the author of thought? Are you in control of what thoughts appear?

I see how "meaninglessness" is just thoughts. I am not the author of thought and not in control of my thoughts.

You did the choice exercises. Is there anyone/anything that is making a choice, or deciding what to choose?

No there is no one making a choice.

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?

Does the sensation suggest in any way that it is “weight of clothing”?

There either is or is not a boundary between the body and chair. Please LOOK carefully, and let me know what you find.

No there is no boundary between the body and anything.

So what is actually appearing is label + sensation + colour + thoughts ABOUT a body, but can a body be found in AE?

Yes, there is no body but the labeling of body.

Really? LOOK again! Where is this “I” that has the actual experience of a body as a vehicle? Describe this “I” to me in precise details and describe to me where it is located.

Thought says that the foot is ‘down there’. So presumably you are above your foot. Where are you? Sit quietly, close your eyes, take a few breaths and locate where you feel yourself to be. Locate yourself vertically in the body, horizontally to the left or right, and depth, how far in. Feel how big you are, where you reside.
Then point with a finger to ‘you’. Open your eyes, where is your finger pointing?

I cannot find a “me” anywhere. I have been processing this experience you have suggested about the body. It is mindbending for me but I am seeing that my reality is composed of thoughts and sensations and thoughts about the thoughts and sensations. It’s true that this part of your questioning has found anothe big place where my thoughts of “I” reside. I feel like I am still trying to comprehend and let go of my attachment to my body as a "me".

Thank you Kay.


Love,
Merri

[forgetmenot]

Hey Merri,

Sorry it is so late but I want to respond. I want you to know that just because my responses have been late has not meant that I haven't focused on your assignments. They have been very much on my mind.

That’s good, it is all for you! :)

So what is actually appearing is label + sensation + colour + thoughts ABOUT a body, but can a body be found in AE?

Yes, there is no body but the labeling of body.

Yes!

Thought says that the foot is ‘down there’. So presumably you are above your foot. Where are you? Sit quietly, close your eyes, take a few breaths and locate where you feel yourself to be. Locate yourself vertically in the body, horizontally to the left or right, and depth, how far in. Feel how big you are, where you reside.
Then point with a finger to ‘you’. Open your eyes, where is your finger pointing?

I cannot find a “me” anywhere. I have been processing this experience you have suggested about the body. It is mindbending for me but I am seeing that my reality is composed of thoughts and sensations and thoughts about the thoughts and sensations. It’s true that this part of your questioning has found anothe big place where my thoughts of “I” reside. I feel like I am still trying to comprehend and let go of my attachment to my body as a "me".

So when you did the exercise and opened your eyes, where was your finger pointing?

There is no one who is trying to let go or who is attached to a body as a “me”. There never has been a separate you in a body, however the idea that the body is the vehicle and that the body is a “me” does appear, but once it is realised that there is no body, although the story continues to appear, there is simply a knowing that this is not so.



Here is an even deeper investigation of the body. Please follow each step, don't leave out any. Take your time. Don't move to the next step until the previous one is clearly seen. Repeat the exercise several times.

Stand in front of a bigger mirror.

(1) First, close the eyes and feel the sensations labelled ‘body’.

(2) Then open the eyes and look into the mirror while still paying attention to the sensations.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror?
Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?


(3) While still paying attention to the sensations move one hand and observe the movement from the mirror.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?

(4) Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’?
Or only thoughts suggest it?

(5) Now, pay attention only to the image in the mirror.

Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’?
Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all?
Or are there only colours and shapes?

(6) Where the mirror ends, some parts of the body (probably legs) cannot be seen.

Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?

(7) Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts).

Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?

(8) Start to walk slowly.

Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?
Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?
Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?
Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?
Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?

(9) Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?

Love, Kay

[Love4a11]

Hi Kay,

I will do your exercise and respond tomorrow or the next day. I don't want to rush through and be tempted to say that I have experienced something that I have not experienced.

Thank you so much!

Love,
Merri