Gone through the gate?

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Tiwana
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Re: Gone through the gate?

Postby Tiwana » Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:27 am

Aaaa! Awesome.
What is that says: awareness is not mine? What is that claims ownership or not owning?

Is there an owner that feels that is loosing something? What does that owner own? What is that is ‘mine’?

Sending love

Thought and what claims ownership is thought and feeling

It feels like thiers something being lost. But thought needs to kick in for that feeling to be translated to that. Thier is no owner. And to add to that all senses are independent. Theirs no center. But they do "react to each other" for example the eye sees something. body sensation anxiety. Mind then creates story. These were all separate events that follow each other but are not connected

What is that is ‘mine’?
It is but a thought leading to a feeling nothing more.

But now the question becomes What is the difference between thoughts and a feelings or sensation. Nvm something just hit me......

Thier isnt one thiers literally no way to know anything. The mind labels it feeling or thought. You dont know the difference between anger and sadness unless its labeled it all literally labels. We dont know what the world is me? what the hells other what the hells everything. WE dont know one goddamm thing about thee world nothing makes sense NOTHING MAKES SENSE WE KNOW NOTHING WE KNOW NOTHING. WHAT THE HELL DO THESE WORDS EVEN MEAN. I feel completly calm though. Peaceful content. I dont even know how im writing this or how im making sense of it. But these words are being typed perfectly even thought i dont know what words are. I cant beleive it this reality makes 0 sense to me im as clueless as i was when i was born. I havnt learned one thing about reality since then.

Even the words i just typed mean nothing. SO what is all this what are we doing
were trying to find the self right?
what does self mean?
Nothing makes sense so does self even makes sense?
For all i know im a alien taking some psychedelic right now
God pretending to be man
A simulation inside a computer
A dinasour whos dreaming
Inter dimensional demon king whos in a war and was just sparkled with some fairy dust to hallucinate this.
the universe expierencing itself subjectively
brain in a vat
reality itself
All of it just as meaningless
The next events just happen by themselves
im a thought thats what the self is.
Its a thought just another believe.

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Ilona
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Re: Gone through the gate?

Postby Ilona » Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:54 pm

Wonderful. Not knowing anything is a good place to be. Being open, curious, fresh and childlike.
We are not trying to find a self. We are looking at what IS. What is here now, obvious. We are not chasing imaginary entities and looking to find something. We are investigating what is here underneath all thought.
Can a thought know?
What is that knows?


Sending love
See for yourself.
8-week guided self-inquiry experience → https://ilonaciunaite.com/8-week-program/

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Tiwana
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Re: Gone through the gate?

Postby Tiwana » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:44 pm

Wonderful. Not knowing anything is a good place to be. Being open, curious, fresh and childlike.
We are not trying to find a self. We are looking at what IS. What is here now, obvious. We are not chasing imaginary entities and looking to find something. We are investigating what is here underneath all thought.
Can a thought know?
What is that knows?


Sending love
1.A thought cannot know. It just comes with this authority as if it knows.
2. Thas the mystery no matter how much i look i cant get a grip on it. i cant find it. The one that knows is "whatever that is aware of the thought" but i cant find this thing because when i try it then shifts to who is aware of the feeling of awareness. And if i concentrate on the knowing of feeling of awareness then who is aware of that?

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Re: Gone through the gate?

Postby Ilona » Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:42 pm

Chasing "the who" is not going to find anything. Who question assumes an entity, a subject. But it's an invention of language. Asking who question is already buying into an illusion. So let's drop that for now and investigate how life looks through the lens of bahyia sutra.

In the seen, there is only the seen,
in the heard, there is only the heard,
in the sensed, there is only the sensed,
in the cognized, there is only the cognized.
Thus you should see that
indeed there is no thing here;
this, Bahiya, is how you should train yourself.
Since, Bahiya, there is for you
in the seen, only the seen,
in the heard, only the heard,
in the sensed, only the sensed,
in the cognized, only the cognized,
and you see that there is no thing here,
you will therefore see that
indeed there is no thing there.
As you see that there is no thing there,
you will see that
you are therefore located neither in the world of this,
nor in the world of that,
nor in any place
between the two.
This alone is the end of suffering.


Play with that for a day or two and write what you notice!
Sending love
See for yourself.
8-week guided self-inquiry experience → https://ilonaciunaite.com/8-week-program/

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Tiwana
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Re: Gone through the gate?

Postby Tiwana » Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:16 pm

Chasing "the who" is not going to find anything. Who question assumes an entity, a subject. But it's an invention of language. Asking who question is already buying into an illusion. So let's drop that for now and investigate how life looks through the lens of bahyia sutra.

In the seen, there is only the seen,
in the heard, there is only the heard,
in the sensed, there is only the sensed,
in the cognized, there is only the cognized.
Thus you should see that
indeed there is no thing here;
this, Bahiya, is how you should train yourself.
Since, Bahiya, there is for you
in the seen, only the seen,
in the heard, only the heard,
in the sensed, only the sensed,
in the cognized, only the cognized,
and you see that there is no thing here,
you will therefore see that
indeed there is no thing there.
As you see that there is no thing there,
you will see that
you are therefore located neither in the world of this,
nor in the world of that,
nor in any place
between the two.
This alone is the end of suffering.


Play with that for a day or two and write what you notice!
Sending love
I belive iv realized something.
Let me describe my situation

I dont know amything so i feel disoriented BUT at the same time life has become 10x more beutiful. I look at the grass or a store sign. I go like wow what is that amazing i feel like a kid again everythiling is just like WOW. So here is my realization

I was studying everything was perfect and then a thought cane up. "I cant belive that girl rejected me". An emotion came with it. I was unaffeted tho i just started laughin. The mind creates suffering. Where was the girl why bring her up and ruin this. This happins all the time im lookin out a window and then "you should have studyed more"

Its all made up the studying or the girl didnt even exist until mind brought it up.

I like this anology i read.
Cats as kids play fight and sneak around
Cats older become master fighters and prowlers
Human as kids play imagination and create entire worlds from it
Humans as adults literally forget thier playin imagination and belive it.

The story is just a story reality is as is and nothing can be said about it

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Ilona
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Re: Gone through the gate?

Postby Ilona » Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:06 pm

Nice analogy!
And yes, it's all made up!! Ha.
How does it feel to see this?
Is there a separate self at all and was there ever?
Is there feeling of separateness? How about people around, are there separate being moving bodies and making choices?
Describe how it appears now.

Sending love
See for yourself.
8-week guided self-inquiry experience → https://ilonaciunaite.com/8-week-program/

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Tiwana
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Re: Gone through the gate?

Postby Tiwana » Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:17 am

Nice analogy!
And yes, it's all made up!! Ha.
How does it feel to see this?
Is there a separate self at all and was there ever?
Is there feeling of separateness? How about people around, are there separate being moving bodies and making choices?
Describe how it appears now.

Sending love
How does it feel to see this?
I dont really know. But it is quite funny tho all these years, all those psychedelics and all that progress were simply a game. Its impossible to make progress in spirituality theirs nothing their that becoming slowly more enlightened.

Is there a separate self at all and was there ever?
No it was their as much as Santa Claus was their.

Is there feeling of separateness? How about people around, are there separate being moving bodies and making choices?
Describe how it appears now.

Wind makes the leaf move. Life makes beings move.
humans and animals both the same.

I dont know if theirs a feeling of separateness.

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Tiwana
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Re: Gone through the gate?

Postby Tiwana » Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:02 pm

Describe how it appears now?
Before i start let me clarify.
I do not know if theirs a feeling of separation
when i look at a chair i do not feel at one with it
i do not feel separate either it just is.
Another thing my sister is entering highschool and i can see the self
Her behavior the way she talks music she listens to everything has changed to her environment.
Soon she will forget she just was acting this way and by 16 17 it will be cemented and she will forget.
Now the change is this my relationship to drugs and woman has changed
Alcohol used to do something for me. When i was drunk it was like this weight had been lifted.
Now theirs nothing it still feels good but at the same time nothing is happening its just another state its not fixing "something" so i no longer really care for it im fine with it or without.
Same thing with woman thier just woman now.
B4 they used to be this majestic creature that was my other side who was going to complete me and i can fall in love with.
Now im fine with or without one
Theirs no hangup on either of these things.

Iv even given up my psychedelics. I was worried it was very very difficult. I felt if i stopped psychedelic all my spiritual progress would stop and i would fall back into delusion. But like i said in my last post spritual progress is just a story of the mind thiers nothing that can progress spiritually. So like jed mckenna says heavy handedly i raised my weapon and burned my belief in psycadelics. They served their purpose their no different from any other drug hmmmmmmmm interesting as soon as i typed that anxiety appeared on my chest. Seems i really was attached to psycadelics LOL.

Btw you can be as harsh as you want with your pointing.

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Ilona
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Re: Gone through the gate?

Postby Ilona » Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:14 pm

Wow, thank you for this report. Looks that a lot of change is happening with dropping attachment. Wonderful.
Thank you for sharing with such honesty.
Would you say our conversation ran its course? Are you clear on what the i is?
Are you ready for the final question or do you like to explore more before I ask them?

Sending love
See for yourself.
8-week guided self-inquiry experience → https://ilonaciunaite.com/8-week-program/

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Tiwana
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Re: Gone through the gate?

Postby Tiwana » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:28 pm

Wow, thank you for this report. Looks that a lot of change is happening with dropping attachment. Wonderful.
Thank you for sharing with such honesty.
Would you say our conversation ran its course? Are you clear on what the i is?
Are you ready for the final question or do you like to explore more before I ask them?

Sending love
Ask the final questions

Sending love

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Ilona
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Re: Gone through the gate?

Postby Ilona » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:16 am

Sweet! Here they are :)

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Can you talk about decision, intention, free will, choice and control? What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Please answer in full, when ready.

Much love.
See for yourself.
8-week guided self-inquiry experience → https://ilonaciunaite.com/8-week-program/

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Tiwana
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Re: Gone through the gate?

Postby Tiwana » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:54 am

Sweet! Here they are :)

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Can you talk about decision, intention, free will, choice and control? What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Please answer in full, when ready.

Much love.
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

Two dogs are born one is aggressive one is passive
You could say this is their "core personality"
You and me both have one these "core personality"
We each are as ug said a "unique flower or blossom of the dance of life"
You could if you wanted to label this core personality "true self"
But thier is no seperate entity that is picking and choosing
Thier is no separate entity that exists within.
and thier never was so no self no i no me anywhere

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The way my mind showed it was like this. Thier is stage one the preparation stage As a little kid i liked dragon ball z the main character is Goku. I literally pretended to be goku and run around fighting evil villains (pillows) but it was as real as it could be to me. I talked like goku walked like goku acted the same way he would. Then around 11 or 12 we enter stage 2 the forgetting stage. Entering high school i learned to be a tough guy. It was the same thing i walked like that talked like thaat but thier was one key difference. I forgot it was just an act i literally became that. Goku and the tough guy were both just playing pretend but i got so good at it i was able to forget i was pretending. Then stage 3 the irritation stage. Constantly keeping the pretend game going is exhausting thats why all our entertainment is centered around getting lost in a good movie video game woman or game. For some people it gets so bad they seek an escape aka enlightenment. Another way to describe this is That the world and everyone is a stage and your mind is a director it creates stories tragedy successes as you go along creating story after story label after label.

Describe it fully as you see it now.
The story is still their the mind as a director is still creating scenarios its just that a movie sorta hard to get into when you notice the bad acting.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

I feel like i have aged decades. Every week was like becoming a whole new person. In fact Im starting to even forget how i could ever even believe in a self. How does anyone believe their is a separate self i just cant comprehend it even tho a week ago i was their 2. It is very difficult to tell you how i have changed every day i sorta change i never knew i wasnt into drugs anymore till a week ago. New things jus pop up and i go oh wow when did that fall away. Thier is this deep sadness tho doesn't really bother me but it appeared yesterday.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
Jed mckenna. I was a hardcore Buddhist i believed in enlightenment my whole identity was built on that goal and believe.but after reading his book. I still remember the exact thought that collapsed everything.
"What if enlightenment isnt real" "What if the buddha is just made up"
Thats all it took everything was thrown into disarray

5) Can you talk about decision, intention, free will, choice and control? What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

I shall give 2 example one logic and one personal breakthrough
You dont know your next thought therefore they are automatic
To make a decision between 2 things you think
Therefore decision=Automatic
If decision is spontaneous you had no clue you were gonna do that therefore automatic.

Now here is the breakthrough
I struggled with this even though i knew logically it was automatic. How could i got to the gym i want to go to the gym to improve myself but how can i do that if its automatic i keep putting it off and their nothing i can do to stop putting it off becouse its automatic. And then i "JUST DID IT" the nike slogan "just do it" I didnt think i just went to the gym it was like zen says riding the bull backwards. Or alan watts says like riding a bike one day your just doing it. i went to the gym my homework got done all of it was just happening. All of it done.

If we want to go more indepth i could say even choice only exists in the story or in your thoughts thier is only doing no such thing as a choice or decision. Just doing Just doing. Like when you drink water thier was a choice you could have not drank water. But do you really think that every time you drink water no you just do it. Your thoughts are what create that choice. Thier really was not one. Free will would imply a separate entity with agency and their isnt one. Free will is a concept brought up from the illusion of self

6) Anything to add?
THANK YOU FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART!!!!!
Also the journey is far from over like shinzen young said. "today enlightenment tommorow mistake"
Now the real work begins.
Going to the gym
Studying
Going deeper into samadhi
And of course helping other people see this.

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Tiwana
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Re: Gone through the gate?

Postby Tiwana » Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:00 pm

I just had the most fascinating experience that id like to share with u.
Yesterday the sadness grew after typing my response it kept growing in the background all day
Then all of sudden realization of impermanence swept through me
I saw no matter what all thing are impermanent then in my mind i saw images of me with woman or getting married and the impermanence of it all
Then i was in complete melancholy
Then i started having full body kriyas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9AHh9MvgyQ
It was so intense i couldnt even brush my teeth i had to lay down in bed and then it was like a scene out of an exorcism
After it stopped thier was a tremendous outpuring of love and utter compassion for life
I saw images in my head of a wide variety of things that happen in life and their was just complete compassion for it all the good and the bad.
Then i woke up today the love was gone but my overall mood was higher
I set my timer to meditate
while i was sitting thier a thought came up "I am so enlightened right now"
And i just burst out laughing i laughed for no exaggeration 15 minutes straight
I am enlightened hahahahaahahahahaha what a joke
I tried calming myself down then i thought i have to go to school to become a nurse
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH that was just as hilarious i dont even know what was so funny about it but it was completely hilarious.

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Tiwana
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Re: Gone through the gate?

Postby Tiwana » Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:25 am

All the pieces have fell togther
The two question that did it
What is the difference between sight and sound
can sight and sound happen simultaneously
im through
The simplest thing
the most obvious thing
The truth jed mckenna talk about
Their is only awareness.

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Tiwana
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Re: Gone through the gate?

Postby Tiwana » Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:34 am

All the pieces have fell togther
The two question that did it
What is the difference between sight and sound
can sight and sound happen simultaneously
im through
The simplest thing
the most obvious thing
The truth jed mckenna talk about
Their is only awareness.
NO no no no
thiers a better way to put it
Do you think the sun knows its shining
thier is
Shining warmth sun skin human sensation
Can the shining exist without the sun
can the warmth exist without the sensation
an the sensation exist without the shining.
can the sensation exist without skin.
Can the skin exist without the human.
can the human exist without the shining.
and on and on it goes.
Everything interconnected with everything else a perfect pattern
And the self?
Just another part of the pattern.


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