Help needed please

[WesleySPK]

Hi Nina,

Yes :). Quite an adjustment though!

Great, well seen! So it seems clear that there isn't a decider, yet when that narrating voice kicks in it seems to bother you perhaps? I know all to well what you're describing here.

Now I'm up and about the narrator kicks back in and I lose focus. Thoughts come up talking as if they are a self, instructing 'me' to see that there is no self haha it feels like I'm going mad with the relentless mind chatter.

Where and what is the narrator? For the next day, anytime you notice these thoughts just simply take note whether it is a real self or just another thought about a self that's arising. A sense of "I" arises --> is it a real I? A thought?

Thank you for your wishes! Hope you're well :)

-Wesley

[WesleySPK]

Hi Nina,

Busy day, will write tomorrow in the morning.

[nerina]

Hi Wesley,
Sounds like you're really busy, have you moved far? Thanks for finding time to keep guiding me x

Where and what is the narrator? For the next day, anytime you notice these thoughts just simply take note whether it is a real self or just another thought about a self that's arising. A sense of "I" arises --> is it a real I? A thought?

The narrator is felt/ heard behind the eyes. Sometimes it talks as if it is the self 'I really must get on with work' but other times it talks as if it is someone giving instructions, advice or encouragement 'hurry up or you'll be late'. So I see that it can't be a self if it is talking to the self - it talks but never gets an answer unless from itself. It's just thoughts but they're very pervasive.
All the best,
Nina

[WesleySPK]

Hi Nina,

My pleasure to guide you :). Yes, I moved from Seattle, US, to Paris.

The narrator is felt/ heard behind the eyes.

How is it felt? Can you describe the feeling of the narrator? And from where is it heard?

Hug,
Wesley

[nerina]

Hi Wesley,
That is a major move!

How is it felt? Can you describe the feeling of the narrator? And from where is it heard?

It's felt as a formless friendly presence in the head. I don't know how it is heard, it uses english to communicate usually, with a bit of welsh occasionally (I live in Wales) and I've been looking into this; it obviously isn't heard via the ears but it definitely uses words which seem to occur in the head.
Hug,
Nina

[WesleySPK]

Hi Nina,

Exactly how do you know it's in the head? Dig deep here and question the assumptions. If your head was cut open, would a narrator be found anywhere?

Hug,
Wesley

[nerina]

Hi Wesley,

Exactly how do you know it's in the head? Dig deep here and question the assumptions. If your head was cut open, would a narrator be found anywhere?

I don't know that the voice is in the head; when my eyes are open it seems to be located there, but when I close my eyes it is dimensionless.When looking closely with my eyes open and relaxing, the voice doesn't have a location. If my head were cut open there would be a mush of brains and blood and no narrator :-)
Hug
Nina

[WesleySPK]

Hi Nina,

I don't know that the voice is in the head; when my eyes are open it seems to be located there, but when I close my eyes it is dimensionless.When looking closely with my eyes open and relaxing, the voice doesn't have a location. If my head were cut open there would be a mush of brains and blood and no narrator :-)

Well seen here. What created the illusion of it being in the head? Other than logical explanations, such as the brain being in the head, why was it assumed that I was in the head and not in the stomach, or the knee?

Hug,
Wesley

[nerina]

Hi Wesley,

What created the illusion of it being in the head? Other than logical explanations, such as the brain being in the head, why was it assumed that I was in the head and not in the stomach, or the knee?

The illusion of the 'I' being in the head is due to most of the sensory perceptions being experienced there - seeing, hearing, tasting, which makes the head feel like the centre of experience. Sight affects my perception a lot - I have quite different experiences when doing the exercises with my eyes open and then shut. I don't notice other body parts as much - unless I've eaten too much or banged into something and then the discomfort or pain reminds me that they are there.
Hug,
Nina

[WesleySPK]

Hi Nina,

The illusion of the 'I' being in the head is due to most of the sensory perceptions being experienced there

Precisely where is "there" that sensory perceptions are being experienced?

Sight affects my perception a lot - I have quite different experiences when doing the exercises with my eyes open and then shut. I don't notice other body parts as much - unless I've eaten too much or banged into something and then the discomfort or pain reminds me that they are there.

Does the sense of I lessen with the eyes closed? If it can lessen and increase, change, go away and come back, what does this tell you about I being a real thing?

Hug,
Wesley

[nerina]

Hi Wesley

Precisely where is "there" that sensory perceptions are being experienced?

I just don't know. I've been trying to look at this all day, and not 'figure it out' (which is what keeps happening!). I've spent a lifetime believing that hearing is done by the ears and seeing by the eyes, but when I try to find out where it happens I can't, it just happens.

Does the sense of I lessen with the eyes closed? If it can lessen and increase, change, go away and come back, what does this tell you about I being a real thing?

The sense of 'I' does vary and even go away at different times, which means that it's not a real thing, but this is still mainly an understanding and not an experience.
Hug,
Nina

[WesleySPK]

Hi Nina,

I just don't know. I've been trying to look at this all day, and not 'figure it out' (which is what keeps happening!). I've spent a lifetime believing that hearing is done by the ears and seeing by the eyes, but when I try to find out where it happens I can't, it just happens.

Could "there" be just an assumption?

Close your eyes and rest your hand on something and notice the sensation. There it is. Does it have a location? Is a "location" a part of your direct experience of it? Open your eyes and touch something. Is the location part of the direct experience?

How about with sound? Close your eyes, can you find the location where sounds are heard?

We'll pick up on the varying sense of I next

Cheers,
Wesley

[nerina]

Hi Wesley,
Yes, 'there' could be just an assumption.

Close your eyes and rest your hand on something and notice the sensation. There it is. Does it have a location? Is a "location" a part of your direct experience of it? Open your eyes and touch something. Is the location part of the direct experience?

I put my hand on the table. Initially I feel a mixture of cold, warmth and pressure, it has no location. I put my other hand on my head, there's a feeling of warmth and pressure and feeling seems to swirl between the two but neither has a location. When I look at the hand on the table and wait for the assumption of 'my hand is on the table' to pass, I see a pattern and feel the warmth feeling but the sight and the feeling aren't connected to each other. It has no location and looks quite weird but maybe I'm just staring at it too long :-D

How about with sound? Close your eyes, can you find the location where sounds are heard?

No, sounds just occur, hearing doesn't have a location either.
Big thanks,
Nina

[WesleySPK]

Hi Nina,

Will write in the morning

[WesleySPK]

Hi Nina,

Good stuff! How does it feel to see this?

Going back to this now:

The sense of 'I' does vary and even go away at different times, which means that it's not a real thing, but this is still mainly an understanding and not an experience.

So where is I right now without any thoughts of I? Where is Nina without thoughts of Nina?

Hug,
Wesley