Knocking at the gate

[Abraxaz]

Good to hear it. Let me know what you find.

Look forward to hearing from you again.

[Delos333]

. Is awareness under control or is it just happening like every other thing that you have had AE with? Look.

No, awareness is just aware, but it does seem to get distracted at times into "daydreaming" and then suddenly comes back into the present moment? Then it seems like awareness wasn't there for those few moments.

Where can the self be hiding? Where is it left to be found?

There's nowhere else it could be.

Look in a mirror and look at the image. Look at what is in front of the eyes. Look at the body and the face. When you see it there, do you think "yes, this is me" Do you see the image as you? If not, what comes to mind?

No I thought "there is my reflection"

Now look at your body and repeat that again? Is it different or the same?

I thought "there is my body"

? Is it different or the same? Does it feel like there is a world outside the body and inside the body? Where do you stop and the rest of the world begin

The first was just a reflection, the second was the actual body. Yes there is a world happening all around the body on the outside but it doesn't seem like there's a private little world on the inside like I always thought.
Thought makes the distinction "I am me in here, and the world is out there" it's only in thought.

Here is an interesting exercise on the body.
Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes.
Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:
Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume

I couldn't tell the height or weight, it just felt like a vibrating energy.

In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?
Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

No shape or form, just energy or a vibration, no boundaries only when I would start to think.

Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside, the outside of what exactly?

Only when I go up into the head and look from there. Otherwise just space, but with an aliveness.

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

The body is purely feeling everything, good or bad. It relaxes and opens or it contracts and closes (almost like a flower), then the head has all its chatter about why and how and what it all means and what to avoid and what to pursue. When there is just this pure feeling, things are simple and there's a lightness, an innocence that seems to get squelched and covered over by self.
The body is this physical form that life is appearing as for awhile.

Thank you :)

[Abraxaz]

Good to see you are back.

I am a bit tied up at the moment and need a little time to get back to you in a proper way. Will write back by 2-3 days - earlier if I can.

[Delos333]

ok thanks, will talk to you then :)

[Abraxaz]

Thanks for waiting

Where is the self for you now? Can you find it anywhere?

Look back at your language in the last post.

pure feeling, things are simple and there's a lightness, an innocence that seems to get squelched and covered over by self.

Look here to see where the invented self is. Look at the inner dialog to find it. when you say things are 'pure' - what does that mean - pure for who? a lightness of what and for whom?

There is often a sense of being at the helm of the ship during the day - for many people this is manifest by seeing the locus of experience in the 'head'.

Try this to examine the solidity of the head.

Press a finger down onto the top of the ‘head’.
Notice what is actually present.
Is it a head, or is it just a sensation labelled ‘pressure’ and a story ABOUT a head?

Do the same with a finger on each side of the head.
Is a head actually found, or are there just sensations again?
And is there anything between the pressure points, or is it just a thought that says there *must* be something between them?

Another way to see how this idea of the helm is not real the following

Stand with your nose nearly touching the wall. Feel how close the wall is - get a sense of how near it feels how your breath can be smelled if your are close enough, your vision should be filled by the wall. The idea here is to experience how you feel in relation to the wall.

Now step back and put your hand out and put one finger on the wall. Touch it.

Do you feel further from the wall now - even though you are touching it? why?

[Delos333]

Where is the self for you now? Can you find it anywhere?

There are occasional moments where seeing happens, the self seems to "fall away" (not sure how else to describe it), then I try to get back to that seeing again, like I lost something precious and can't find it. This just causes frustration, tension, and seems to reinforce the self, Guess its a bad habit from years of being a seeker.

Look back at your language in the last post.
pure feeling, things are simple and there's a lightness, an innocence that seems to get squelched and covered over by self.
Look here to see where the invented self is. Look at the inner dialog to find it. when you say things are 'pure' - what does that mean - pure for who? a lightness of what and for whom?

I meant that the body is here in authentic experience, and the thinker railroads over that and thinks everything to death! Like a mental neurosis that overlays experience.

Is it a head, or is it just a sensation labelled ‘pressure’ and a story ABOUT a head?

Just pressure and thoughts and labels about it.

Is a head actually found, or are there just sensations again?
And is there anything between the pressure points, or is it just a thought that says there *must* be something between them?

Same, just sensations and labels that were learned. Only thought makes it seem like there is something there.

Do you feel further from the wall now - even though you are touching it? why?

No I didn't feel further from the wall while touching it, doesn't seem logical but that's what happened.

[Delos333]

Since I haven't heard back from you since my last response 3 days ago, I can only wonder why? Is everything ok? Am I not catching on fast enough, or have not answered the questions correctly or did not do the exercises properly? Maybe I got off track with my answers, if that is the case, I wonder why you didn't say so? I am confused, would not intentionally waste anyone's time and thought I was following the guidelines you suggested. Of course I see this has triggered the me into a tailspin of fear, hurt, and worry. It would be funny if it were all just a technical glitch but I don't think so as I can see my last post there clearly. Hmmm not sure what's up, please let me know when you get a chance.

[Abraxaz]

Dellos,

I work 24 hour shifts on Friday and Sunday. I simply have not had the time to respond to you properly in a thoughtful way. Your seeing is going very well. There is no need to doubt it. It comes from your own experience, after all.

Will write after I get some more sleep.

My next response will go over the wall exercise. You seemed to have had an insight there.

[Delos333]

So sorry, I started to worry and got carried away, should know better than to listen to the head and it's neurotic broadcasts. Hope you get lots of rest, no hurry at all.

[Abraxaz]

No I didn't feel further from the wall while touching it, doesn't seem logical but that's what happened.

In many ways this is the start of the answer. The idea that is being pointed to as false and not real is the idea that experience is happening to a self. The center of that experience is often see as the body so the natural thoughts that spring from this view are things like "Its raining on me" But is that true? Is it raining on you? Or is it just raining? When the rain seems to be falling on a self the whole fulcrum of the experience is seen from the vantage point of a self.

There is no need to make this extra step. No outside and inside. That is what the body exercises should have been showing you? Can you see that part? is it clear? The mind creates the world and gives it meaning. There is nothing wrong with this. But it is important to know if this meaning is real - often it is not.

Take the image here as an example
http://www.joy-of-cartoon-pictures.com/ ... inyday.jpg

Thought says that the yellow, orange and green areas are an object called ‘you’, and thought also calls these colours your body. Thought also says that the other colours are objects, and the light brown areas are objects called ‘animals’.

Now, drop all labels and thoughts ABOUT colour being specific objects….what is actually appearing is colour. There are also thoughts appearing that say that these colour(s) are specific objects. Without labels and thoughts all there is, is colour.
Can you see this?

Thought also says that there is something behind the door. How is it known that there is something behind the door?


Try to see how you are fabricating the experience and then use what you have been developing with AE to compare what is really happening.

Let me know how you are doing? are questions and where you still feel the presses of the self if you still do?

[Delos333]

"Its raining on me" But is that true? Is it raining on you? Or is it just raining? When the rain seems to be falling on a self the whole fulcrum of the experience is seen from the vantage point of a self.

This rings true however it gets forgotten in the habitual way of looking "from" me-ness.

There is no need to make this extra step. No outside and inside. That is what the body exercises should have been showing you? Can you see that part? is it clear? The mind creates the world and gives it meaning.

There have been glimpses of seeing this but then i seem to forget and revert back to the familiar point of view.

Now, drop all labels and thoughts ABOUT colour being specific objects….what is actually appearing is colour. There are also thoughts appearing that say that these colour(s) are specific objects. Without labels and thoughts all there is, is colour.
Can you see this?

It's like I have a filter in place already before I look at anything, it's a meaning making app that's running. When I dropped the assumptions I just saw colors.

Thought also says that there is something behind the door. How is it known that there is something behind the door?

Thought assumes everything. It thinks it knows based on past experiences. What has been learned and stored in the files.

Try to see how you are fabricating the experience and then use what you have been developing with AE to compare what is really happening

.
Thought sees the picture and takes for granted what it is, what is happening , what is about to happen, when it's just colors in actuality and has no meaning. Omg this is how I have approached my whole life *cringe*

Let me know how you are doing? are questions and where you still feel the presses of the self if you still do?

There are definitely aha moments of seeing which is huge, then they always seem to slip away and I go back on autopilot to the old self I always operated as. Maybe I haven't yet put all the puzzle pieces together for a real foundational shift, there are moments of seeing through this I, but the me still seems to be the basic foundation of daily life.

Thank you :)

[Abraxaz]

Lets try another approach. you are doing well, this change is not due to you - its just a bit of a change in angel to round things out. I will get back to the exercises shortly.

Most of this has been an exercise to see how the self is not to be found in differs places, like thoughts or the body. But what, exactly, is not there? What is it that we can't find? in many ways, only you can answer this.

I would like you to tell me what you would find if you found the self. What would that be? What would it look like? What kind of qualities does it have? What could it do? How would it work (if it is you, could it be possible for you not to know about it)? (these are just examples of ways you can approach it - by no means exhaustive) don't feel bad if you struggle with this (remember, the supposition here is that the self is not real - so it would beg to reason that this would be hard as you are having to create this entirely from scratch)

Follow that with this....

In face to face training this often stars with someone saying "who are you?" over and over and over.
Many people start their answer with a name - I am (state your name here). but then you realize that's just a label
Then you might say "I'm a (name your profession here)" And you realize that thats not what you are either - you only do that sometimes. Keep going and feel the emptiness of each answer fully. Do this as long as it takes to see all the things that you are not in an attempt to find out what you are. IF there is nothing that you are - consider that there might not be a self for you to be.


When you are done, consider these exercise in light of the ones we have been doing with the body and with thought. Let me know what you find and questions if you have any.

[Delos333]

I would like you to tell me what you would find if you found the self. What would that be? What would it look like? What kind of qualities does it have? What could it do? How would it work (if it is you, could it be possible for you not to know about it)?

It's really ironic to me that I've spent most of my adult life trying to find a way out of the self, but have no idea what it is when asked about it. First I thought about it, and decided that it's like a personality attributed to this body based on stories and historical memories. But this was just what I imagined it must be.
I saw that its always just been accepted that there is a self there, having all these thoughts,emotions, feelings, physical sensations, but it's like a phantom because I never actually saw it. It's like I've been in a trance and your questions snap me out of it. I feel this sense of wonder, that I lived a life and never saw this. I am in awe at the moment.

In face to face training this often stars with someone saying "who are you?" over and over and over.

With this exercise it all came down to this sense of aliveness, simple, uncomplicated, natural.

When you are done, consider these exercise in light of the ones we have been doing with the body and with thought. Let me know what you find and questions if you have any.

I see that every time I really look for and question the self, it's nowhere to be found. And all those years of fervent searching just took me in circles because it was "me" searching for a way out, rather than questioning and searching for the me, I feel very humbled and grateful to you for pointing this out to me, I wish I could find the right words to explain it, but I am speechless right now :)

[Abraxaz]

I've spent most of my adult life trying to find a way out of the self, but have no idea what it is when asked about it

There is no reason to have an answer to the questions I asked. This is not school and no one is grading your answers. Its ok to look for the self and not find it. After all, its not there. The identification of personal assumptions is a huge step in this direction and it sounds like things are becoming clearer for you

Lets take this understanding and not knowing and use it to see further.

Find a TV team sport on TV or a Youtube clip that lasts for at least 5 minutes. The following link is to a game of soccer, but if you prefer another sport…please feel free to find one to do this exercise with.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIFUhW3zO5Q

1. Watch one minute with the sound turned OFF, watching ‘people’ messing about with a round thing on a field, up and down, up and down. Let it sink in, the whole experience.

2. Once the first minute is completed, now watch another whole minute with the commentary turned ON.

Notice the differences. Notice how the commentator (aka thought) offers lots of know-how, even advice, seems to feel as though they can influence somehow what is going on, as though one outcome is much preferred to the opposite outcome, the commentary may seem to heighten any supporter feelings which are there, and call for an identification with one team or other, and with the importance of the game itself.

3. Now turn the volume OFF AGAIN and just watch the action with NO audible commentary, the shapes moving around on the screen etc. Again notice all the differences in what is appearing as experience.

4. Now turn the volume ON again and ignore what you think you know thought is talking about, and just notice it as sound.


Given the recent insights you have had I hope this exercise is helpful.

Its ok to be excited here - but at every turn, ask, who is having this feeling? Who is grateful, who is humbled who is speechless? Notice how there is no need for that to be you or a self. It can just happen. Just like the game you just saw.

[Delos333]

With this exercise I see that thought is always there, narrating everything that happens, acting as an authority on all the experiences and what they all mean, but everything is just happening and I don't have to listen to and rely on thought to gauge where I am or how I am doing or what is happening. So when seeing happens, there's no need to get distracted and swept up in the dramatics of the thought commentary. Good to see this. Thanks