The Gate

Hi Nemo

By 'a sense' I mean thoughts, but also feelings in the body that are closely identified with an idea of self. They're in the solar plexus area, and I went into them in meditation this morning, and of course found that they were just feelings and sensations.

Ok, I understand.
Later realisations examine the link between the body and the senses.
At the moment, the body may appear to be the location or 'central focus' of experience, particularly in seeing.
This can be examined to realise that all the senses, and indeed all the objects that appear within the senses lack any 'real' location. In Buddhist terms, this is breaking the sixth fetter.
It is enough at present to realise that there is no 'I', no separate self that is experiencing (although experience might still appear to have some central point of location).

There's an expectation that over time, as the seeing goes deeper, that sense of 'me' -- that unproductive way in which mind habitually functions -- will happen less and less.

That's fair to say - And it should. Particularly if you continue with 'looking' as a practise to realise each and every time that the 'I' thought doesn't reference anything inherently real.

I'm getting how crucial the exploration of control/no control is. Half a dozen times today, when there have been thoughts of self and an associated tensing in the body, awareness has explored 'who is in control?' and 'is there really any control?' and mind and body have relaxed and functioned more freely and spontaneously again.

Yes - Sounds good!

Mm, and all this leading in the direction of natural compassion, life caring for itself. It's really motivating to keep exploring more and more deeply.

Spot on! So at this stage are you confident that you have realised 'no self' (broken the first fetter?)

Xain ♥

Hi Xain,

So at this stage are you confident that you have realised 'no self' (broken the first fetter?)

Yes, I am. Still though, there's a desire to make as sure as possible, to look into the ways that the mind/body is responding, and double-check that the question of 'no self' is settled once and for all. I want to do this whole process with as much integrity as I can.

So let's take that 'yes' as a provisional answer, even though I do feel confident in it, and give me 2 or 3 days to sit with it. Then I can get back to you on Sunday or Monday, either with a big 'yes' or with any lingering doubts I've found hanging around.

Is that ok with you?

Kind regards,
Nemo.

Hi Nemo

Yes, that's fine.

The entire guiding process (at this stage) is comparing what thoughts / mental imputation suggests with what can be found using the senses - the experience of the immediate moment.
Can an inherent self ever be found . . . seeing, hearing, smelling, choosing, thinking, imagining, controlling . . . or is any suggestion of 'I' only found in the content of thoughts that appear (which creates the illusion).

Get back to me with any more questions you have or if things are clear for you, whenever you want.

Xain ♥

Hi Xain,

Well, I've had a good look around, to make sure, and I don't have any questions. You put the situation very clearly when you say:

or is any suggestion of 'I' only found in the content of thoughts that appear (which creates the illusion).

Yes, that's what I see. So I don't have any questions. Where do we go from here?

Kind regards,
Nemo.

Well there are a further six questions I can ask as part of this process. The questions might bring up other things that we can look at if there is any confusion or other issues.

Here are the first three of the six questions:

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form (other than in the content of thoughts of course)? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience and understanding. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference (if anything) between now and before you started the guidance?

Xain ♥

Hi Xain,

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form (other than in the content of thoughts of course)? Was there ever?

No, it's quite clear that there isn't any such entity anywhere. There never was and there never will be. (I guess looking at past, present and future is a separate investigation, but part of how the whole illusion works is by creating a sense of a 'me' that persists over 'time'.)

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience and understanding. Describe it fully as you see it now.

I imagine, but I don't clearly remember, that as a pre-verbal infant there was probably some kind of grasping and tightening fuelled by the drive for self-preservation. But the whole illusion really builds as soon as there is language. Learning language smuggles in all sorts of assumptions about subject and object. In particular, from becoming a handy tool for communicating about this body/mind, the concepts of 'I' and 'mine' start to be mistaken to refer to some literal entity, a 'someone' that exists behind or in the middle of sense experience and is the owner and controller of the body/mind. Because we have unchanging words for them, this 'someone' is assumed to be passing through all the flowing experiences of life.

Now, having looked into it all, 'I' is seen to be fundamentally a narrative, a set of concepts about experience, not experience itself. It seems weird how one could keep referring back to someone you can't find, that supposedly inhabits a space 'back here somewhere' that doesn't exist. Now it's completely clear that there's no-one looking at this page; the words are typing themselves. Everything just flows.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference (if anything) between now and before you started the guidance?

Well, in a sense nothing has changed. Everything that was actually there before, all the sense experiences, are still there as before. And there's no-one jumping up and down saying 'I've seen how things are!' But there's a kind of quiet glow of satisfaction in the body at not being fooled by the illusion. And everything is somehow simpler and less dramatic. And there's a sense of possibility, of relaxing more and more deeply into this, not by anyone making any effort to relax, but just naturally now that the major source of tension has been seen. Although sure, the looking has to keep on happening, but there's a quiet confidence that it will...

I hope this gives you enough detail. Mind feels a bit tired of using lots of words right now. All this seems very clear, and I guess that, having seen it too, you'll be able to pick up on the cues in what's being said here.

Kind regards,
Nemo.

I hope this gives you enough detail. Mind feels a bit tired of using lots of words right now.

Sounds good to me - Thank you.

Here are the last three of the six questions:

4) Was there something specific you looked into or something that was mentioned that made you fully realise? - Was there a specific moment where you 'tipped over' into realising 'no self'?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control as you understand it now. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Please give examples from experience if you can, and explain what you have realised.

6) Do you have anything further you would like to add?

Xain ♥

Hi Xain,

The answers, part two...

4) Was there something specific you looked into or something that was mentioned that made you fully realise? - Was there a specific moment where you 'tipped over' into realising 'no self'?

I think there were 2 or 3 key points. One was the day i realised, more clearly than the little glimpses there had been before, that there was no-one 'back here' looking at anything. There was just visual field. It felt as if 'I' dissolved into it, although i can see that was still illusion. There never was anyone that could ever merge with it.

Then there was examining a 'sense' of an area in the body where 'I was'. Seeing clearly in experience that there were just feelings annd sensations that were being interpreted in terms of 'me' helped to turn things around.

The other turning point was looking into control. This didn't provoke such a clear conceptual shift. It was more like as the sense of 'me doing this' dropped away, the resulting sense of tension-release and freedom in body and mind were so obvious that something on a gut level was convinced that this seeing had to be right.

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control as you understand it now. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Please give examples from experience if you can, and explain what you have realised.

Despite saying that looking into 'control' was a turning point, for a while it felt like there was still some unclarity around it all. What I've realised now is that it's clear what's conceptual and not there in direct experience, but that still leaves the deep mystery of life unfolding, which can never be put into words.

So firstly it's clear that there is no 'self' that could ever make decisions, form intentions, etc. And it's also clear that all those ways of looking at things in terms of deciding, intending, free will or determinism, choosing and controlling are also just descriptions, ideas, not what actually happens.

What makes things happen?

Well, not sure I can give you any explanation in words. Very roughly, nothing makes things happen; they just happen.

How does it work?

Can't say. Life just unfolds -- which doesn't mean it's all random and chaotic. It functions beautifully, wondrously. This is where I thought things still weren't clear (and maybe you'll tell me that the penny hasn't dropped yet), but now it just feels like there's no way to catch how life works in the little fishing net of concepts. if we have to use ideas, then the Buddhist one of conditionality looks good, but that is just another concept. I can't find conditionality in experience.

What are you responsible for?

There is no 'I' to be responsible. Still, whether this body-mind feeds or starves this dog here, or has a second cup of coffee or not, has what if we use concepts we'd describe as effects -- both on the body-mind and the universe.

6) Do you have anything further you would like to add?

Mind is more open. It is more available to the sound of the wind on the moor and the spring colours. Experience is simpler, it feels more flowing than before.

There are several things we touched on in this dialogue which you suggested were important but for later, beyond the scope of the dialogue you do here. I'm keen to find ways of going into those areas. It feels as if the looking and exploring is pretty much endless. But what a journey!

And lots of gratitude for you and this process, for bringing me these few steps on the Way...

Kind regards,
Nemo.

Hi again Nemo

The other guides have had a look at our conversation and are confident that you've gone 'through the gate'.
Congratulations! This marks the ending of the guidance here.

. . . then the Buddhist one of conditionality looks good, but that is just another concept. I can't find conditionality in experience.

Excellent - Yes.
One of the other guides remarks 'He intuits that dependent origination itself is a skilful half-step only valid as a concession to the world of concepts' which I would agree with.

There was just visual field. It felt as if 'I' dissolved into it, although i can see that was still illusion. There never was anyone that could ever merge with it.

Yes - Indeed, you may be touching on the 6th fetter here.
After realising 'no self' here at LU, there may still be a sense that there is something 'here' experiencing a world of objects 'out there' - There will still be a subject/object duality. This can be investigated for a potential 'shift' in experience. It is a further realisation.

Seeing 'no self' at LU doesn't directly address issues of mental suffering - The constant push/pull of life - Wanting things to be different from the way they are - Something is still assumed to be 'here' reacting to negative experiences. This can also be investigated (4th and 5th fetters). Another potential realisation.

If you are on Facebook, I can add you to our groups there for 'New arrivals' and 'Further looking' etc
There is also an excellent group for discussing, examining and being guided within the Buddhist fetter model that I have suggested. If you wish this, please send me a private message with your name and Facebook page link, and I'll get you added to those (click the red name 'Xain' and choose 'Send Private Message').

Of course, feel free any time to send me a message if you get stuck with anything or just want a second opinion.

Very best wishes to you for now, and for your onwards journey.
Xain ♥

Hi Xain,

That's great.I'm glad that other guides have had a look and are confident in the work we've done together.

i really want to say a heartfelt thank you to you for our dialogue, your clarity and support. It looks like you do a lot of guiding. It's such an act of generosity.

I'm also very grateful to those who put this site together. It's a beacon of clarity in a world of confusion.

I'm not on Facebook currently. But I'm happy to sign up so I can have access to the LU forums. The other Buddhist one you mentioned also sounds very interesting. I'll message you about it once I've got a Facebook account.

With more gratitude, and lots of good wishes,
Nemo.