Seeking the end of Seeking

[s-p-a-c-e]

It was not easy to get into this exercise

What did you have difficulty with?

Thank you,
John

[Govinda]

First I did not really understand what you mean by noticing the object and then it was difficult to notice the object wothout concept.

[s-p-a-c-e]

First I did not really understand what you mean by noticing the object and then it was difficult to notice the object wothout concept.

What we're doing Sebastian is looking at the difference between what we see and what we think we see.

So, look at your right hand.
You are also aware of looking at what is called a 'hand'.
It is also called a 'eskua', 'idejn', 'käsi' - depending on what language you were taught.

Spend a minute looking at an eskua.

Spend a minute looking at an idejn.

Spend a minute looking at a käsi.

Spend a minute looking at a hand.

Share your experience.

Thank you,
John

[Govinda]

I see only this pure complete appearance but thoughts give it meaning and value and seem to seperate it.

[s-p-a-c-e]

I see only this pure complete appearance but thoughts give it meaning and value and seem to seperate it.

When you look at a hand - look at it now - it feels like you know everything about it.
But apart from what appears, we know barely anything.
We watch it move and have no clue how that happens. Not a clue.
Watch it move. See for yourself.

Thanks,
John

[Govinda]

I see only this pure complete appearance but thoughts give it meaning and value and seem to seperate it.

When you look at a hand - look at it now - it feels like you know everything about it.
But apart from what appears, we know barely anything.
We watch it move and have no clue how that happens. Not a clue.
Watch it move. See for yourself.

Thanks,
John

Sorry, whats the point you want to make?

At the moment I am focused on allowing, allowing everything, allowing pain, allowing fear, everything without restricitons, without the try to control, change, fix, manipulate, total surrender to what is. This appears to be kind of freeing for me. What do you think about this practice?

Regards, Sebastian

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hi Sebastien,

Sorry, whats the point you want to make?

I'm not making a point as this is not a discussion. This is an activity for you to carry out, and share your experience of it.

At the moment I am focused on allowing, allowing everything, allowing pain, allowing fear, everything without restricitons, without the try to control, change, fix, manipulate, total surrender to what is. This appears to be kind of freeing for me. What do you think about this practice?

If you are finding it helpful, then continue.

Best wishes,
John

[Govinda]

Hi John,
would you continue to guide me? I feel ready for this now.
Kindly, Sebatian

[Govinda]

Working through the quotes now. love what I read there.

Writing down my epectations:
Freedom, peace with what is, no burden of neurotic fears, inferiority, timidity, seeking, being not good enough. Just being okay, just okayness, serenity. <3

[Govinda]

Fear

What fears of the non-self are there?
I could die. I am not worthy of it. I am not ready for it. I have worked so hard for liberation, I dont want to see that this was all meaningless.
What is it protecting?
It is protecting me as a false, seperate entity. It is protecting the illusion.
What is it that it does not want me to find out?
that I am a lie. That I dont exist.
What is behind the fear?
Silence, peace, freedom

What needs to be protected?
survival of the body.

Is there really a seperate self?
yes, I have to survive.

What consequences are to expect without identification with the story?
freedom, peace. I dont know.

what doubts are there?
I need to understand. I need to develop awareness more and decondition thinking/feeling patterns first.
what does it want me to protect from?
feeling pain. unpleasent feelings. feeling of being inferior.
from freedom, peace, non-self.

What are you without your story?
nothing, peace, life, freedom

[Govinda]

Hi there, I would like to continue to do this process with a guide. So if you want to guide me please feel free. Thanks.

At the moment it seems quite clear that there is no real "I", just a thought. There seems to be no need to validate the "non-self" any more. Maybe the "seeing" is not total though, because it feels dry, almost depressive here, not liberated or free. The mind says this can not be Liberation.
Can someone help here please.

I am reading the free ebooks of LU for some weeks now with breaks. Have seen, read, heard and visited lots of non duality content/meetings and Advaita Satsangs/philosophy the last years before.

Best regards

[Hopefulness]

Hi Sebastian,

I'm Paul. I can work with you on this a little more. John has moved on to other things.

You said,


Feb 14 2017

I feel ruled by the ego mind, who seems to dictate my actions and thoughts. I cant escape it, its like I am obsessed. Asking for guidance please...

What is the "I" "my" in the statement from 2017 as differentiated from the "ego mind" contained therein?
Please define each as exactly as you can.

[Govinda]

Hi Paul, thank you for your answer and for guiding me through this.

Feb 14 2017

I feel ruled by the ego mind, who seems to dictate my actions and thoughts. I cant escape it, its like I am obsessed. Asking for guidance please...

What is the "I" "my" in the statement from 2017 as differentiated from the "ego mind" contained therein?
Please define each as exactly as you can.

"I" and "my" are thoughts pointing to a not existing self. "ego mind" is a thought pointing to something unreal too, maybe other thoughts containing an "I".
Actually I don`t know what I meant with that term "ego mind" and it`s not clear to me what it is or shall be now.

[Hopefulness]

Hi again,

"I" and "my" are thoughts pointing to a not existing self. "ego mind" is a thought pointing to something unreal too, maybe other thoughts containing an "I".

Well that something that is unreal seemed pretty real back in Feb. 13, 2017.

I am scared of life, of people, it seems so frightening and I feel inferior, powerless, overwhelmed by the pain life seems to evoke. I feel like a child lost without guidance in the world.

You felt like a child. That's a good start. A child was born, was breathing, pooping, peeing, crying, laughing, the heart was beating, the digestion was happening, and a million other things that were controlled by the hardware of the brain, with the software implanted for survival.

Basically, there was seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, and feeling. That was actual experience. That was simply what was happening. Sebastian was simply life lifeing. That was Sebastian the subject. But not a fixed subject. A constantly changing subject.. But wait. There was no one commenting on that. No internal voice criticizing or praising. There were only colors, shapes sounds, smells and sensations with no thoughts. But "you" didn't even know of those qualities. There was just pure awareness.

I already had glimpses that I am not the body/mind, that the body-mind is just a movie playing by itself without an actor.

Exactly.

One day those colors, shapes, sounds, smells and sensations became labeled Mommy. Later, the same thing happened again and Daddy was created. These were objects. And then another object was created by them. Those colors, shapes, sounds, tastes and sensations became the label "Sebastian" the object, later known as "me." Sebastian "mommy's boy", Sebastian "daddy's little man." The world consisted of three objects; Sebastian, Mommy and Daddy. Commentary began.
More shapes, colors, sounds, smells, and sensations were labeled "doggy". Commentary expanded. More shapes, colors, sounds, smells, and sensations were labeled "kitty". More objects, more commentary. Sebastian the "good boy," Sebastian the "bad boy." Commentary expanded again.

So now you know what actually exists. Do you see the distinction?

So two questions:

What has changed with the subject Sebastian?

What has changed with the object Sebastian?

Look closely.
Take your time.

[Govinda]

So now you know what actually exists. Do you see the distinction?

So two questions:

What has changed with the subject Sebastian?

What has changed with the object Sebastian?

Look closely.
Take your time.

As you describe it the subject Sebastian is raw experience through the senses which is seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling.
The experience is constantly changing in the flow of life. Colors change, sounds change, sensations change, etc..
The Object Sebastian is an unreal label of the mind which sometimes is included in thoughts and sound. The label did not change, but it points to an experience which is constantly changing too.